I'll just recount the 9 million jobs shipped overseas for cheaper labor that translates to higher profit margins for those "struggling businessmen".

it might have required you to withhold a portion of YOUR earnings for YOUR retirement in a qualified plan .

HitsRus;436994 wrote:The biggest con of all. If the government was honest and was actually looking out for your best interests, it might have required you to withhold a portion of YOUR earnings for YOUR retirement in a qualified plan . Instead it TAKES a portion of YOUR earnings and GIVES IT TO SOMEONE ELSE. The 7%+ that is TAKEN from your earnings and the 7%+ that your employer matches doesn't go to YOUR retirement...it goes to SOMEONE ELSE. Is their a bigger lie?.... a more hideous deceit?

Imagine if you could keep 12.4% of what you earn in addition to your other 401(K), pension, and/or IRA's. Imagine how much that would be upon your retirement.

IggyPride00;437022 wrote:It at least guarantees (through government force) that you set something aside that will not be subject to any volatility or loss of investment.

queencitybuckeye;437041 wrote:Inflation guarantees a loss of investment.

isadore;436649 wrote:The American dream, make life more painful for the poor. Let them be homeless, without medical treatment, without food. Now that will be a motivator. Starving Ameicans, is that your dream for our country?

Not to nitpick here, but it's just 6.2% for Social Security, not 7%. Still a healthy sum.

Manhattan Buckeye;437058 wrote:Will it be adjusted to keep up with the reality that no one under 40 will ever receive it?

It is a ponzi scheme that young people are on the ass end of.

IggyPride00;437040 wrote:Imagine how much more epic the financial crisis would have been if many people's last line of defense (their S.S checks) had been subject to the market correction we saw where we lost %50 of its value in 6 months. The panic would be like nothing we've seen before, and would have made what was already a catastrophic situation even worse.

Nobody said 'qualified' meant risky investments...could have been federally insured savings/CDs...the point is...it should be YOURS.

majorspark;437076 wrote:Imagine the crisis when SS runs out of money and has to demand more investment from the labor force. At some point they will refuse to invest anymore. All ponzi schemes have their end. When this one ends there will be hell to pay.

HitsRus;436476 wrote:Well it really isn't that hard to see.....just follow the financial rewards. There are financial incentives to be rich. There are financial rewards to be poor. To be middle class is to be taxed and taxed and taxed.



Save your anti business rhetoric. You obviously have no clue that a business owner is an unpaid tax collector for the government. With a gun to its head, and at great cost to itself and it's customers, it levies taxes upon its workers and it's products. It collects them, documents them, bundles them...and then ships them in a neat little package to Washington, Columbus and various taxing agencies, where it can be distributed to wherever votes need to be purchased. There is one politcal party that is particularly adept at this. It is the natural enemy of the bourgeoise. It's insidious goal is to tax the productive and redistribute it to the non productive. The more it can ensnare in its web of dependency, the better for the party. More dependence means more votes for itself. That its supporters would decry the 'shrinking middle class' underscores its deceptiveness, for its very policy is to eliminate it. Demonize the 'rich'....its good for votes.

What happenned to the American dream? ....Work hard, so that you and your posterity will have a better life.
Eh, work hard, so you can be taxed. Or don't work and the government will send you a check. Shouldn't it be a goal to be rich?....not easier to be poor?

majorspark;436420 wrote:Allow me to give you a little BS from a business owner's perspective. Both my parents were high school dropouts. They divorced when I was 10. I lived with my Dad. He was laid off from his job in the coal mines for a good portion of my high school years. He worked his ass off to keep us afloat. When I graduated high school he had nothing to give to me financially. I was on my own.

In my first year of college I cleaned shitters in office buildings from 5pm to when I got done, usually between 11pm and 12pm, to limit the loans I needed to take to get through school. My 2nd year I took a full time night job in a factory to help pay my way through school. That 2nd year I worked full time and carried a full time schedule in college. Because of personal responsibilities the next few years I worked full time and cut my school back to part time. Except for a semester or two where I carried a full time school load out of necessity in order to meet a graduation goal. In all this I found a way to graduate with honors.

Prior to graduation I was able to attain a promotion into the engineering department. They took me on as a jr draftsman. My wages were basically the same as when I worked on the floor. It was the mid 90's and I was making less than 25k. I lost the OT but gained experience.

I tried to get financial assistance for my education from my place of employment but they refused. The engineering manager was sympathetic and allowed me to slip away one semester to catch a class three times a week so I could finish up and meet my graduation requirements. He knew I would work extra hours to catch up. I never let the man down. I can't thank him enough.

Once I gained experience in the manufacturing environment the entrepreneurial spirit in me began to flourish. I found an idea and risked my personal and family's capital to pursue it. It became a hellish experience for my family and myself at times.

I have worked at times for nearly 40 hours strait to get orders out (not all physical). Do any of the bureaucrats in Washington know what that is like? Does anyone know what happens to your body when you push it to that extreme? Your body will shut you down. You lose your mental capacity. When your body shuts down you will drop right where you are at. I have curled up many times on my shop floor right on top of my product.

Along the way I provided jobs for people. During hard times at the beginning I paid their wages out of my own personal funds. Several times my wife had to take the walk of shame at the grocery store because the funds were not available on the debit card. Not easy on a marriage. I sat in front of a bankruptcy lawyer contemplating my failure.

I refused to declare bankruptcy. I refused to accept failure. Today my business generates profit. All my debts are paid, business and personal (except for my house and a small personal loan).

The very idea that some of my fellow countrymen would not categorize me as a "working" American because I have achieved some level of success or that I would attempt to BS the world with garbage because of my political ideology makes me want to puke.

believer;437066 wrote:I saw a couple of starving Americans at the supermarket today. They were lined-up at the checkout counter with a fistful of Food Stamps in-hand and 6 out-of-control starving kids in tow. Apparently that's their idea of the American dream.

Starving Americans? Give me an example of an American who died of starvation in the past 50 years who starved because absolutely no assistance public or private was available to him.

general94;436908 wrote:You surely don't think I am referring to the above mentioned people as unproductive. Should I be more specific?

unproductive members of society = ADULTS who ARE of age and capable of working (or producing) but choose not to, and live their life sucking off the government tit.

IggyPride00;437022 wrote:"Qualified" is an interesting term. Many of the investment products that went bust the past five years were "AAA" rated and would have been considered "qualified" under any safety metric (hence the reason so many pension funds invested in them). Now we find out years later the fraud that was involved in them even though at the time they were considered the highest, safest quality.
...

isadore;437159 wrote:The safety net put in place over the years has prevented that starvation you so long to see. If you and the General get your way and that safety net is cut, you will get your wish.