QuakerOats;805529 wrote:Our revenues are 21% higher than they were 7 years ago; we do not have a [tax] revenue problem; WE HAVE A SPENDING PROBLEM. And the funds spent on the stimulus were completely misdirected (by obama) toward completely unproductive uses; i.e. public sector union handouts. The facts don't lie.

Say what? Where you coming up with that number?

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/displayafact.cfm?Docid=200

Writerbuckeye;805474 wrote:I automatically dismiss the argument that tax cuts have helped create our current mess.

Money given BACK to taxpayers is not responsible for more debt...more SPENDING above income is responsible.

The government is not entitled to our money. A tax break is simply returning to the people what was theirs to begin with. When that income is removed from the treasury, it is the responsibility of Congress to cut spending accordingly. It's not any different than if the economy takes a downturn and less revenues are available.

Pretty much every state in the union has to find ways to live within its means -- the federal government should be no different.

That automatically makes you not very intelligent

Bigdogg;805693 wrote:Say what? Where you coming up with that number?

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/displayafact.cfm?Docid=200

'03 to '11:

receipts up 18%

spending up 77%

Read it and weep: http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/displayafact.cfm?Docid=200


obama = largest debt creator in the history of the planet, and still defended by some. Incredible.

QuakerOats;805779 wrote:obama = largest debt creator in the history of the planet, and still defended by some. Incredible.

Now wait just a minute, QO. Didn't he "save" 100,000,000 jobs? Without his guidance, all working stiffs would be in the street, along with grandma, starving and looking for morsels of cat food to dine upon. Damn George Bush anyways.

BGFalcons82;805794 wrote:Now wait just a minute, QO. Didn't he "save" 100,000,000 jobs? Without his guidance, all working stiffs would be in the street, along with grandma, starving and looking for morsels of cat food to dine upon. Damn George Bush anyways.

Yes he did and the $800 Billion Porkulus sammich - complete with hundreds of thousands of shovel-ready green infrastructure jobs - undoubtedly saved America, if not the entire world, from a severe economic depression that would have made the Great Depression seem like good times.

In fact, we need even more gubmint spending NOW so we can reach true economic nirvana.

QuakerOats;805779 wrote: obama = largest debt creator in the history of the planet, and still defended by some. Incredible.

Some people just can't admit they backed the wrong horse. Though, to be fair, I'm not sure McCain would have been much better. We'd have spent a little less, maybe, but that's about it.

gut;806201 wrote:Some people just can't admit they backed the wrong horse. Though, to be fair, I'm not sure McCain would have been much better. We'd have spent a little less, maybe, but that's about it.

I also doubt we would have had McCainKare. Other than that you are correct.

believer;806206 wrote:I also doubt we would have had McCainKare. Other than that you are correct.

Maybe not as large as the HCR law passed by the President....but there would have been a "McCainCare"

QuakerOats;805779 wrote:'03 to '11:

receipts up 18%

spending up 77%

Read it and weep: http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/displayafact.cfm?Docid=200


obama = largest debt creator in the history of the planet, and still defended by some. Incredible.

I didn't know the President passed the budget. Must have missed that in Civics class.

Sure the President proposed a large budget, but more blame goes to the idiotic Congress for passing it with tons of pork and political favors for members over the years. That trumps anything the President submitted.
In the grand scheme of things, the President can try and veto, but really as we saw in the government shutdown saga, he can only do so much.
Also, 03 to 07 was R's while 08-11 was D in Congress. As I've said many times, enough blame to go around.

QuakerOats;805779 wrote:'03 to '11:

receipts up 18%

spending up 77%

Read it and weep: http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/displayafact.cfm?Docid=200


obama = largest debt creator in the history of the planet, and still defended by some. Incredible.

I thought Obama has only been president for two years? Stats lie and lairs use stats. Lets look at 2003 dollars.

ptown_trojans_1;806248 wrote:As I've said many times, enough blame to go around.

I agree. In Bush's 8 years in office, his administration ran aggregate deficits of 2 trillion dollars. In just 2 years (and growing) BHO's administration has presided over 2.7 trillion dollars in additional deficit spending for a combined debt of 4.7 trillion dollars over the last 10 budget years.

It's all relative though, right?

And you are correct about Congressional blame as well. Still, the last time there were budget surpluses, the Republicans controlled both houses of Congress...but I'm sure that's just a fluke.

believer;806292 wrote:I agree. In Bush's 8 years in office, his administration ran aggregate deficits of 2 trillion dollars. In just 2 years (and growing) BHO's administration has presided over 2.7 trillion dollars in additional deficit spending for a combined debt of 4.7 trillion dollars over the last 10 budget years.

It's all relative though, right?

And you are correct about Congressional blame as well. Still, the last time there were budget surpluses, the Republicans controlled both houses of Congress...but I'm sure that's just a fluke.

True.
I also agree on your last point, but that period had three things this one does not:
1. Civility: The ability to compromise to fix a problem.
2. A booming economy to help recover any losses and
3. Paygo. The lapse of that has really hurt us.

ptown_trojans_1;806318 wrote:1. Civility: The ability to compromise to fix a problem.

Agreed. The partisanship in the Beltway is as extreme as I've witnessed in my lifetime. It's my humble opinion that we are witnessing a "civil" civil war. It's basically a battle over whether this country should operate on relatively limited government under semi-free market capitalism or embrace the European socialist model with strong government and highly regulated capitalism. Until this battle sees a winner, there's not much hope of bipartisanship in the foreseeable future.

ptown_trojans_1;806318 wrote:2. A booming economy to help recover any losses...

Well, with 4.7 trillion dollar deficits and China holding the promissory note, there's not much hope of returning to robust economic times in the foreseeable future.

ptown_trojans_1;806318 wrote:3. Paygo. The lapse of that has really hurt us.

Agreed. Unfortunately the mindset that we can deficit spend our way out of our economic funk has taken deep root on Capitol Hill and the White House. I don't see this attitude changing anytime soon either.

believer;806292 wrote:. In Bush's 8 years in office, his administration ran aggregate deficits of 2 trillion dollars. .

Umm.......I don't think so. Where do you people come up with such utter nonsense? According to the CBO, the national debt increased 4.3 trillion under W. You, just like Jmog, don't understand what a fiscal year means. 1.3 trillion of Obama's debt his first year was Bush's signed legislation. And....even if you didn't include this 1.3 trillion, Bush increased the aggregate national debt an additional 3 trillion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_debt_by_U.S._presidential_terms

And this....

http://www.factcheck.org/2010/02/a-texas-size-whopper/


The fact is....presidents set budgets....not Congresses. True, Congresses can reject a budget...but they never have...at least to any significant amount. Since 1980, the budgets set by Reagan, Bush 41, and Bush 43 were 1.5 times higher per year than the annual budgets set by Clinton. Moreover, the list of "staunch Republicans" who have stated that "defecits don't matter" would astound you.

Footwedge;807172 wrote:Where do you people come up with such utter nonsense?

Add it up. http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/displayafact.cfm?Docid=200

Footwedge;807172 wrote:
The fact is....presidents set budgets....not Congresses. True, Congresses can reject a budget...but they never have...at least to any significant amount. Since 1980, the budgets set by Reagan, Bush 41, and Bush 43 were 1.5 times higher per year than the annual budgets set by Clinton. Moreover, the list of "staunch Republicans" who have stated that "defecits don't matter" would astound you.

That doesn't resemble a "fact" in any shape or form. Presidents submit a budget "blueprint," which the Ways & Means committee isn't even obligated to read. They don't "set" diddly.

Former Labor Secretary Robert Reich explaining what went wrong with America's economy in just 2 minutes and 15 seconds—with illustrations to boot. It's great, and it's going viral.


[video=youtube;JTzMqm2TwgE][/video]

Bigdogg;807274 wrote:Former Labor Secretary Robert Reich explaining what went wrong with America's economy in just 2 minutes and 15 seconds—with illustrations to boot. It's great, and it's going viral.

I think "viral" means a little more than 700K hits in 5 days....80% of them from moveon.org.

Regarding the Reich video: Nothing like a little Karl Marx philosophy to stir up the masses, eh? He should have used words like, "proleteriat" and "bougeousie", to really hit a home run. To sum up:

1. The evil rotten rich are getting richer by the second and they must be taxed into oblivion because the middle class deserves the fruits of the evil's labor/risk/entreprenuership much more than they do.
2. Higher taxes = economic heaven.
3. Unions are awesome and everyone needs higher wages. This will really entice the manufacturing base to return, eh?
4. Class warfare (or is that class envy, Robert?) will never stop.

Try this on, Robby - The rich and corporations are hoarding their assets like never before because our leaders are devising ways to pry it from them any way possible. Until the gubmint ceases and decists with their irrational plans, i.e. ObamaKare, Cap-n-Tax, carbon dioxide is a deadly poison, greenhouse gases are the root of all that ails us, the combustion engine is the planet's deadliest invention, etc., then they will continue to hold onto what they have. Gubmint needs to foster a winning economic environment and then get the hell out of the way. But they won't, because they are here to fix things for us. That's why they are elected...right? Funny how we elect and re-elect those that got us into this debacle and assume they know the answers on how to get us out.

The people will get us out of this, not the federal government. Works every time it's tried. Until this is realized, understood, and implemented, the economic death spiral will continue.

Reich has all but become a parody of himself.

BGFalcons82;807326 wrote:Regarding the Reich video: Nothing like a little Karl Marx philosophy to stir up the masses, eh? He should have used words like, "proleteriat" and "bougeousie", to really hit a home run. To sum up:

1. The evil rotten rich are getting richer by the second and they must be taxed into oblivion because the middle class deserves the fruits of the evil's labor/risk/entreprenuership much more than they do.
2. Higher taxes = economic heaven.
3. Unions are awesome and everyone needs higher wages. This will really entice the manufacturing base to return, eh?
4. Class warfare (or is that class envy, Robert?) will never stop.

Try this on, Robby - The rich and corporations are hoarding their assets like never before because our leaders are devising ways to pry it from them any way possible. Until the gubmint ceases and decists with their irrational plans, i.e. ObamaKare, Cap-n-Tax, carbon dioxide is a deadly poison, greenhouse gases are the root of all that ails us, the combustion engine is the planet's deadliest invention, etc., then they will continue to hold onto what they have. Gubmint needs to foster a winning economic environment and then get the hell out of the way. But they won't, because they are here to fix things for us. That's why they are elected...right? Funny how we elect and re-elect those that got us into this debacle and assume they know the answers on how to get us out.

The people will get us out of this, not the federal government. Works every time it's tried. Until this is realized, understood, and implemented, the economic death spiral will continue.

Well congratulations on knowing the name Karl Marx. Although I would guess Rush and Glen like to say their name a lot. Unfortunately, you have no clue what Marxism actually is.

Bigdogg;807643 wrote:Unfortunately, you have no clue what Marxism actually is.

You obviously do.

believer;807755 wrote:You obviously do.

I gotta go find those colloquialisms wherein Marx praised the rich and wished he was one of them.

BGFalcons82;807765 wrote:I gotta go find those colloquialisms wherein Marx praised the rich and wished he was one of them.

Yeah...Marx had a bizarre form of penis envy when it came to the rich.

BGFalcons82;807765 wrote:I gotta go find those colloquialisms wherein Marx praised the rich and wished he was one of them.

Now that you completely shit on the thread, do you think it is a good thing that a continuing smaller group of people control a greater percentage of the total wealth? And why do you think this is a good thing? When will it end, like a monopoly game where the last player wins?