killer_ewok wrote:

Citybuck wrote: Whats amazing is the ND fans who said that Charlie would take them to a championship game every year when he was hired, are no where to be found now days...

What ND fans said that????

You can't be serious? I know every year is an exaggeration, but come on.

I think you're a very good poster ewok, but the answer is almost all ND fans on JJ, when the hire was made, said Charlie Weis was going to "Bring Notre Dame back to the top".

Even heading into this year, "Anything less than a BCS game would be a disappointment".

He's NOT a good coach, and (like I said last week) ND just isn't that talented.

Hey Sleeper, Notre Dame won their bowl last year, not every team won their bowl.

You want delusional fans, sleepy? What about the nut cases who want Tressel fired for winning over .800 of his games, with a national championship, and domination of their rival to boot? OSU fans seem a little delusional and you can take that to the bank.

Meyer, Stoops, Miles.............................................Why would they leave their established top tier programs to coach ND? I just can't see it happening. I will catch hell for this but the reality is ND just is not one of the top coaching jobs in the country anymore, and a coach from a perennial top ten team is not going to jump to go to a complete rebuilding project.

84_TIGER wrote: Meyer, Stoops, Miles.............................................Why would they leave their established top tier programs to coach ND? I just can't see it happening. I will catch hell for this but the reality is ND just is not one of the top coaching jobs in the country anymore, and a coach from a perennial top ten team is not going to jump to go to a complete rebuilding project.

This is just wrong. If the money is there, it's still going to be top coaching job. If ND couldn't offer Florida, LSU, USC, type of contracts, then I would agree, but the fact of the matter is that ND has the $$ and will still attract top coaches.

Don't forget the business aspect of college football - these guys are here to make money first and foremost. If anything, Weis has done the one thing many thought couldn't happen anymore, which is attract the top recruits again. IMO, the job looks MUCH more attractive now then it did when Willingham was fired. The table is basically set for the next coach to take the team to the next level.

Hamp89 wrote:

84_TIGER wrote: Meyer, Stoops, Miles.............................................Why would they leave their established top tier programs to coach ND? I just can't see it happening. I will catch hell for this but the reality is ND just is not one of the top coaching jobs in the country anymore, and a coach from a perennial top ten team is not going to jump to go to a complete rebuilding project.

This is just wrong. If the money is there, it's still going to be top coaching job. If ND couldn't offer Florida, LSU, USC, type of contracts, then I would agree, but the fact of the matter is that ND has the $$ and will still attract top coaches.

Don't forget the business aspect of college football - these guys are here to make money first and foremost. If anything, Weis has done the one thing many thought couldn't happen anymore, which is attract the top recruits again. IMO, the job looks MUCH more attractive now then it did when Willingham was fired. The table is basically set for the next coach to take the team to the next level.

The money is there yes, but it is not always about the money. These guys all have huge egos and HAVE to win. They are not going to jump from their very successful programs to ND and start over. I don't think the table is set for next year, they are 6-5 this year with a very weak schedule. They need to go after a up and coming coach, and as much as I don't want to see him leave UC Brian Kelly would be a great fit at ND.

Hamp89 wrote:

84_TIGER wrote: Meyer, Stoops, Miles.............................................Why would they leave their established top tier programs to coach ND? I just can't see it happening. I will catch hell for this but the reality is ND just is not one of the top coaching jobs in the country anymore, and a coach from a perennial top ten team is not going to jump to go to a complete rebuilding project.

This is just wrong. If the money is there, it's still going to be top coaching job. If ND couldn't offer Florida, LSU, USC, type of contracts, then I would agree, but the fact of the matter is that ND has the $$ and will still attract top coaches.

Don't forget the business aspect of college football - these guys are here to make money first and foremost. If anything, Weis has done the one thing many thought couldn't happen anymore, which is attract the top recruits again. IMO, the job looks MUCH more attractive now then it did when Willingham was fired. The table is basically set for the next coach to take the team to the next level.

if weis was recruiting such top talent why couldnt he win with his recruits? he was able to win with Willingham's recruits.

Mulva wrote:

killer_ewok wrote:

Citybuck wrote: Whats amazing is the ND fans who said that Charlie would take them to a championship game every year when he was hired, are no where to be found now days...

What ND fans said that????

You can't be serious? I know every year is an exaggeration, but come on.

I think you're a very good poster ewok, but the answer is almost all ND fans on JJ, when the hire was made, said Charlie Weis was going to "Bring Notre Dame back to the top".

Even heading into this year, "Anything less than a BCS game would be a disappointment".

He's NOT a good coach, and (like I said last week) ND just isn't that talented.

Oh, I wasn't arguing that there were a lot of ND fans rambling on about a "Return To Glory" when Weis was hired but my issue with that quote was the over-the-top exaggeration because I don't remember ANY ND fans saying such a thing. Sure, there were some who thought that ND would be a consistent national title contender but the "title game every year" statement was total bunk. Nobody on the old huddle said that......hence my objection to that post.

And the reason that many were saying anything less than a BCS bowl this year would be a disappointment was because of the schedule appearing to be set up nicely for the Irish. It didn't have to do with fans thinking ND was a surefire BCS team based on how good they are.

I'll agree that Weis is not a good coach. However, there is some big-time talent on offense (how can you argue against a future 1st round/top pick QB in Clausen, Tate is a 1st rounder, Floyd and Rudolph will be when they come out) and that's further proof that Weis isn't a good college head coach.

KnightRyder wrote:

Hamp89 wrote:

84_TIGER wrote: Meyer, Stoops, Miles.............................................Why would they leave their established top tier programs to coach ND? I just can't see it happening. I will catch hell for this but the reality is ND just is not one of the top coaching jobs in the country anymore, and a coach from a perennial top ten team is not going to jump to go to a complete rebuilding project.

This is just wrong. If the money is there, it's still going to be top coaching job. If ND couldn't offer Florida, LSU, USC, type of contracts, then I would agree, but the fact of the matter is that ND has the $$ and will still attract top coaches.

Don't forget the business aspect of college football - these guys are here to make money first and foremost. If anything, Weis has done the one thing many thought couldn't happen anymore, which is attract the top recruits again. IMO, the job looks MUCH more attractive now then it did when Willingham was fired. The table is basically set for the next coach to take the team to the next level.

if weis was recruiting such top talent why couldnt he win with his recruits? he was able to win with Willingham's recruits.

I think Weis came in and trusted Quinn and company. His playcalling was wide open then. His playcalling has become very conservative and predictable over the last few years. Weis can win with his own recruits.....but not nearly enough and therein lies the problem.

killer_ewok wrote:

KnightRyder wrote:

Hamp89 wrote:

84_TIGER wrote: Meyer, Stoops, Miles.............................................Why would they leave their established top tier programs to coach ND? I just can't see it happening. I will catch hell for this but the reality is ND just is not one of the top coaching jobs in the country anymore, and a coach from a perennial top ten team is not going to jump to go to a complete rebuilding project.

This is just wrong. If the money is there, it's still going to be top coaching job. If ND couldn't offer Florida, LSU, USC, type of contracts, then I would agree, but the fact of the matter is that ND has the $$ and will still attract top coaches.

Don't forget the business aspect of college football - these guys are here to make money first and foremost. If anything, Weis has done the one thing many thought couldn't happen anymore, which is attract the top recruits again. IMO, the job looks MUCH more attractive now then it did when Willingham was fired. The table is basically set for the next coach to take the team to the next level.

if weis was recruiting such top talent why couldnt he win with his recruits? he was able to win with Willingham's recruits.

I think Weis came in and trusted Quinn and company. His playcalling was wide open then. His playcalling has become very conservative and predictable over the last few years. Weis can win with his own recruits.....but not nearly enough and therein lies the problem.

weis has opened up his play calling more this year then EVER before. EVER before. you realize, you can not be considered "conservative: if your offense is the top ten in the country.

that doesnt really make much sense, now does it? his play calling is not always *perfect* but our offense is generally great.

the reason why notre dame blows is because the defense is anemic. we are fundamentally worse than most dIII programs, its embarrassing.

That great offense and he can't score when he needs to against Navy and UCONN?

Mr Pat wrote: That great offense and he can't score when he needs to against Navy and UCONN?

yeah, lets hold our next coach to standards where we must score on every possession.

notre dame fans bitch about having the 10th best offense in the country, we sound like hapless ohio state fans.

its pathetic.

rocket31 wrote:

killer_ewok wrote:

KnightRyder wrote:

Hamp89 wrote:

84_TIGER wrote: Meyer, Stoops, Miles.............................................Why would they leave their established top tier programs to coach ND? I just can't see it happening. I will catch hell for this but the reality is ND just is not one of the top coaching jobs in the country anymore, and a coach from a perennial top ten team is not going to jump to go to a complete rebuilding project.

This is just wrong. If the money is there, it's still going to be top coaching job. If ND couldn't offer Florida, LSU, USC, type of contracts, then I would agree, but the fact of the matter is that ND has the $$ and will still attract top coaches.

Don't forget the business aspect of college football - these guys are here to make money first and foremost. If anything, Weis has done the one thing many thought couldn't happen anymore, which is attract the top recruits again. IMO, the job looks MUCH more attractive now then it did when Willingham was fired. The table is basically set for the next coach to take the team to the next level.

if weis was recruiting such top talent why couldnt he win with his recruits? he was able to win with Willingham's recruits.

I think Weis came in and trusted Quinn and company. His playcalling was wide open then. His playcalling has become very conservative and predictable over the last few years. Weis can win with his own recruits.....but not nearly enough and therein lies the problem.

weis has opened up his play calling more this year then EVER before. EVER before. you realize, you can not be considered "conservative: if your offense is the top ten in the country.

that doesnt really make much sense, now does it? his play calling is not always *perfect* but our offense is generally great.

the reason why notre dame blows is because the defense is anemic. we are fundamentally worse than most dIII programs, its embarrassing.

He opens it up alright.....in the 4th quarter when ND is down by 2 or 3 scores and it's too late. Just check the score breakdowns by quarter. I actually liked the playcalling early on yesterday. Too little too late though. And for all of the great offense talk.....before this Uconn game.....ND ranked 46th nationally in scoring offense. Sorry, but that's not great at all. It's pretty much middle of the pack....maybe just a little better than that.

Mr Pat wrote: That great offense and he can't score when he needs to against Navy and UCONN?

This.

rocket31 wrote:

Mr Pat wrote: That great offense and he can't score when he needs to against Navy and UCONN?

yeah, lets hold our next coach to standards where we must score on every possession.

notre dame fans bitch about having the 10th best offense in the country, we sound like hapless ohio state fans.

its pathetic.

83rd in rushing offense
6th in passing offense
11th in total offense
tied for 45th in scoring offense

I'd be willing to bet that most of the passing yardage and points were racked up in the 2nd half....particularly in the 4th quarter when ND was playing from a couple scores behind.

i am talking about yards per game, you know the definition of "total offense." where notre dame ranks #10 in the country. if i was talking about "scoring offense" i probably would have said so.

our "scoring offense" is not as high as it could be because of the teams performance in the red zone.

and yes, i blame that partly on charlie weis and partly on careless mistakes with the football. it has been "mediocre"

i am with you guys that charlie must go, but criticizing the only bright spot on the field (the offense) this year seems mildly foolish.

rocket31 wrote: i am talking about yards per game, you know the definition of "total offense." where notre dame ranks #10 in the country. if i was talking about "scoring offense" i probably would have said so.

our "scoring offense" is not as high as it could be because of the teams performance in the red zone.

and yes, i blame that partly on charlie weis and partly on careless mistakes with the football. it has been "mediocre"

i am with you guys that charlie must go, but criticizing the only bright spot on the field (the offense) this year seems mildly foolish.

Well, hey.....if total yards mattered as much as points we'd be top 10 in the country. It's about points......yards are nice but if you're not scoring more than the other team it doesn't matter much. A lot of that "total offense" is racked up when it's too little too late when Weis had no choice but to throw the ball downfield.

I never said anything about scoring on every possession. Didn't even hint it. Notre Dame only put up 20 points in regulation against UCONN. UCONN has played six teams that put up more points on them against Notre Dame. I don't care how many yards they get, I want points. Not points every possession, I want more points to beat bad teams.

Mr Pat wrote: I never said anything about scoring on every possession. Didn't even hint it. Notre Dame only put up 20 points in regulation against UCONN. UCONN has played six teams that put up more points on them against Notre Dame. I don't care how many yards they get, I want points. Not points every possession, I want more points to beat bad teams.

Exactly.

who said it mattered as much? you are turning into cbf the spin doctor with the pulling statements out of thin air.

the point is we have the 10th best total offense in the country, sure it is not perfect, but it is the ONLY bright spot on the notre dame football team.

special teams sucks, defense sucks, kicking sucks, punting sucks, fundamentals sucks, etc...

at least the offense was something worth watching on saturdays. it was the only thing.

Mr Pat wrote: I never said anything about scoring on every possession. Didn't even hint it. Notre Dame only put up 20 points in regulation against UCONN. UCONN has played six teams that put up more points on them against Notre Dame. I don't care how many yards they get, I want points. Not points every possession, I want more points to beat bad teams.

our redzone offense blowed yesterday, i agree. part of that was shitty execution, part of that was shitty play calling.

rocket31 wrote: who said it mattered as much? you are turning into cbf the spin doctor with the pulling statements out of thin air.

the point is we have the 10th best total offense in the country, sure it is not perfect, but it is the ONLY bright spot on the notre dame football team.

special teams sucks, defense sucks, kicking sucks, punting sucks, fundamentals sucks, etc...

at least the offense was something worth watching on saturdays. it was the only thing.

#1.) I didn't say that you said that. I was making a point. You go on and on about yards but what it comes down to is points and ND's offense is not scoring enough. I'm not going to take solace in the fact that ND is in the top 10 in yards.

#2.) You accuse me of being a spin doctor (which I wasn't spinning anything) yet you bring up holding our coach to our offense scoring on every possession. Where did Mr. Pat say that? He said that they haven't scored when they needed to against Navy and Uconn. So I guess that makes you a spin doctor and you're pulling statements out of thin air too, right?

"score when he needs to" essentially equals "score every possesion"?

yes?

As I've said before, I don't think it will be Meyer(why leave a great situation at Florida) or Kelly(again, great situation @ Cincinnati w/ university committing money to building some more facilities, heard a study was launched to inquire into expanding Nippert Stadium). Les Miles I think like most have said may be holding out for scUM, and after the year Oklahoma ishaving this year(yes, even with all the injuries), Stoops could seem like a logical choice

rocket31 wrote: "score when he needs to" essentially equals "score every possesion"?

yes?

No. As bad as ND's defense has been....they stopped Uconn and Navy several times. Nice try with that spin though. You wrongly accuse others of it and you turn around and do what you inaccurately criticized them for.

I won't bother waiting for you to admit that you're wrong and/or hypocritical.

killer_ewok wrote:

rocket31 wrote: "score when he needs to" essentially equals "score every possesion"?

yes?

No. As bad as ND's defense has been....they stopped Uconn and Navy several times. Nice try with that spin though. You wrongly accuse others of it and you turn around and do what you inaccurately criticized them for.

I won't bother waiting for you to admit that you're wrong and/or hypocritical.

the entertaining part of this whole pointless argument is that you praise the defense for yesterday's putrid performance, but yet, still continue to chastise the offense? cmon, the defense was abysmal.

like i have said before, at least the offense gave us something to watch on saturdays.

anyways, i am done discussing this. what is in the past, needs to say there.

i believe we can and should have more productive conversation concerning notre dames future in threads such as these

I praised the defense for yesterday's performance? More spin. I simply stated that they came up with a few stops. I wasn't patting them on the back.....I was stating a fact.

We can have productive conversations if you like. You're the one who usually starts insulting me or gets accusatory because we disagree on something. And what we disagree on isn't going to change. So, we can just agree to disagree if you like.