Colorado set to announce move to Pac 10

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krambman's avatar

krambman

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Jun 10, 2010 3:47 PM
LJ;385759 wrote:Pac10 average ranking 69
Big Ten average ranking 51

You might want to check your math there bud. Whether you're just counting the current teams of the newly added ones I still can't come up with the same averages you did.
Jun 10, 2010 3:47pm
LJ's avatar

LJ

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Jun 10, 2010 3:47 PM
krambman;385773 wrote:Average Pac-10 rank = 64.
Average Big Ten rank = 54.

The Pac-10 average didn't count Oregon State because I didn't know how to factor them in. No one is arguing that California has the best college system in the country (both public and private) but outside of that state the rest of the conference isn't close to being on the Big Ten's level. In fact, half of the (old) Pac-10 conference is ranked below the entire Big Ten. Yes, they have a few top schools in the Pac-10, but as far as the top academic conference in the country, it's hard to argue against the Big Ten (and I'm just talking D-1A football conferences).

I gave Oregon State 150


and oops my math was wrong, lost a 61 in there somewhere

but including the U of Chicago, which is techincally a big ten school, it's a 50
Jun 10, 2010 3:47pm
krambman's avatar

krambman

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Jun 10, 2010 3:55 PM
LJ;385785 wrote:I gave Oregon State 150


and oops my math was wrong, lost a 61 in there somewhere

but including the U of Chicago, which is techincally a big ten school, it's a 50
I just redid my average counting Oregon State at 136 (I just didn't include them originally) because Tier 3 starts at 136. That takes their average to 70, a full 16 spots lower than the Big Ten.
Jun 10, 2010 3:55pm
sleeper's avatar

sleeper

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Jun 10, 2010 3:56 PM
Oh come on guys, the Pac-10 has Stanford = gg

LOL
Jun 10, 2010 3:56pm
LJ's avatar

LJ

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Jun 10, 2010 3:57 PM
krambman;385803 wrote:I just redid my average counting Oregon State at 136 (I just didn't include them originally) because Tier 3 starts at 136. That takes their average to 70, a full 16 spots lower than the Big Ten.

I would leave U of Chicago with the big ten, and they are 8, so a 50 for the Big Ten.

and I figured out what i orig did..

i divided the pac 10 by 10 and the big ten by 11, but added in the new schools, man I am off my game today.
Jun 10, 2010 3:57pm
krambman's avatar

krambman

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Jun 10, 2010 4:03 PM
Wikipedia is on top of things.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pac-10

And LJ, technically Chicago is a member of the Committee of Institutional Cooperation, and not a member of the Big Ten. Now, the CIC is made up of all 11 Big Ten schools and Chicago, but it is still separate from the Big Ten. There's also no guarantee that any teams added to the Big Ten will also be added to the CIC, so you can't really count Chicago in the Big Ten academics.
Jun 10, 2010 4:03pm
LJ's avatar

LJ

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Jun 10, 2010 4:05 PM
krambman;385825 wrote:Wikipedia is on top of things.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pac-10

And LJ, technically Chicago is a member of the Committee of Institutional Cooperation, and not a member of the Big Ten. Now, the CIC is made up of all 11 Big Ten schools and Chicago, but it is still separate from the Big Ten. There's also no guarantee that any teams added to the Big Ten will also be added to the CIC, so you can't really count Chicago in the Big Ten academics.

That's because it is the academic conference of the big ten. U of Chicago was a charter member and only left the big ten because they killed football, so they still have all the academic advantages of being a big ten member, through the creation of the CIC.
Jun 10, 2010 4:05pm
krambman's avatar

krambman

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Jun 10, 2010 4:08 PM
LJ;385831 wrote:That's because it is the academic conference of the big ten. U of Chicago was a charter member and only left the big ten because they killed football, so they still have all the academic advantages of being a big ten member, through the creation of the CIC.

Correct, but the Big Ten and CIC are separate entities. The Big Ten is an athletic league, the CIC is an academic conference. Are they connected? Absolutely. Are they one in the same? Nope.
Jun 10, 2010 4:08pm
LJ's avatar

LJ

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Jun 10, 2010 4:12 PM
krambman;385839 wrote:Correct, but the Big Ten and CIC are separate entities. The Big Ten is an athletic league, the CIC is an academic conference. Are they connected? Absolutely. Are they one in the same? Nope.

You're not making any sense. You say they are connected, of course they are not the same though. If they were the same, there would be no CIC, and there would be not "Big Ten Academic Conference" aka the CIC.
The CIC was formed to get U of Chicago back into the Big Ten academically when they did not have any varsity sports in the 50's and 60's.
Jun 10, 2010 4:12pm
krambman's avatar

krambman

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Jun 10, 2010 4:14 PM
LJ;385852 wrote:You're not making any sense. You say they are connected, of course they are not the same though. If they were the same, there would be no CIC, and there would be not "Big Ten Academic Conference" aka the CIC.
The CIC was formed to get U of Chicago back into the Big Ten academically when they did not have any varsity sports in the 50's and 60's.

No, it got them to join back with Big Ten schools academically. It did not get them back into the Big Ten. Chicago hasn't been in the Big Ten since 1946.
Jun 10, 2010 4:14pm
D

dokken

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Jun 10, 2010 4:15 PM
Hey, we had a 3-3 bowl record and our institutions rank very high and we are rich.
Jun 10, 2010 4:15pm
LJ's avatar

LJ

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Jun 10, 2010 4:16 PM
krambman;385863 wrote:No, it got them to join back with Big Ten schools academically. It did not get them back into the Big Ten. Chicago hasn't been in the Big Ten since 1946.

ummm.... when did I say they joined the big 10 athletic conference?
Jun 10, 2010 4:16pm
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krambman

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Jun 10, 2010 4:19 PM
LJ;385868 wrote:ummm.... when did I say they joined the big 10 athletic conference?

You didn't, but you did say that it got them back into the Big Ten academically. The Big Ten is an athletic conference. There's no such thing as the Big Ten academically. There is the academic CIC which is not the Big Ten.
Jun 10, 2010 4:19pm
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gorocks99

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Jun 10, 2010 4:19 PM
LOL this argument is ridiculous.
Jun 10, 2010 4:19pm
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karen lotz

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Jun 10, 2010 4:22 PM
^^^^
Bucknut natives are restless...
Jun 10, 2010 4:22pm
krambman's avatar

krambman

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Jun 10, 2010 4:23 PM
http://www.bigten.org/school-bio/big10-school-bio.html

"The Big Ten Conference is a union of 11 world-class academic institutions who share a common mission of research, graduate, professional and undergraduate teaching and public service."

http://www.cic.net/Home/AboutCIC.aspx

"Headquartered in the Midwest, the Committee on Institutional Cooperation (CIC) is a consortium of the Big Ten universities plus the University of Chicago"

Argue that U of Chicago is in the Big Ten all you want, but clearly, they are not.
Jun 10, 2010 4:23pm
LJ's avatar

LJ

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Jun 10, 2010 4:27 PM
krambman;385888 wrote:http://www.bigten.org/school-bio/big10-school-bio.html

"The Big Ten Conference is a union of 11 world-class academic institutions who share a common mission of research, graduate, professional and undergraduate teaching and public service."

http://www.cic.net/Home/AboutCIC.aspx

"Headquartered in the Midwest, the Committee on Institutional Cooperation (CIC) is a consortium of the Big Ten universities plus the University of Chicago"

Argue that U of Chicago is in the Big Ten all you want, but clearly, they are not.

You don't understand what I am saying. The Big Ten is an athletic conference, most athletic conferences have a counterpart consortium for academics. The athletic conference has nothing to do with academics, only the consortium. Like the Pac-10 has one, the SEC has one, all made up of their member schools. OK, so, if you want to rank the OVERALL performence of the ACADEMIC CONSORTIUM schools (because that is what matters, what you get out of THAT when it comes to academics as a whole in a conference, who's football team plays who has nothing to do with the academic performence of a conference) you have to include all the CIC schools, because THAT is the Big Ten academic consortium. THAT is the academic advantage of being a big ten school, is the access to the consortium.
Jun 10, 2010 4:27pm
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enigmaax

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Jun 10, 2010 4:28 PM
karen lotz;385510 wrote:"...we are proud to accept this invitation from the Pac-10 and join the most prestigious academic and athletic conference in the nation."

Okay, so you guys keep arguing about whether or not to count Chicago. Wasn't this debate supposed to consider both academics and athletics. Who is going to count up the national championships and how are you going to balance those?
Jun 10, 2010 4:28pm
LJ's avatar

LJ

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Jun 10, 2010 4:28 PM
In other words, if you want to argue the academics of a league, you have to go off of the consortium, not the athletic members.
Jun 10, 2010 4:28pm
LJ's avatar

LJ

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Jun 10, 2010 4:52 PM
to break it down easier, it's like this.

You play in a saturday morning basketball league and you go up to a friend and say "yeah, Michael Jordan, Magic Johnson and Reggie Miller all play on other teams"
your friend will go "Wow, that is a bad ass league!"
Then you go on to say "yeah, and Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, and the founder of Google all play on teams too"
"Man, that's cool! Can they give you a job?"
And you say "well no, none of us really talk to each other, I have to join their separate club that meets afterwards, but only members of the basketball league can join"
Your friend will say "well, they suck at basketball, and they can't get you a job, besides their reputation, how does that really help you?"
Your answer "it doesn't"

THAT is why you have to rank the consortium, NOT the athletic leagues.
Jun 10, 2010 4:52pm
V

vball10set

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Jun 11, 2010 9:25 AM
tip of the iceberg....
Jun 11, 2010 9:25am
sleeper's avatar

sleeper

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Jun 11, 2010 9:51 PM
Whether you include Chicago or not, the Big 10 is tops in academics, second only to the Ivy league, which no one cares about.
Jun 11, 2010 9:51pm
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Azubuike24

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Jun 11, 2010 9:55 PM
sleeper;387385 wrote:Whether you include Chicago or not, the Big 10 is tops in academics, second only to the Ivy league, which no one cares about.

I don't know about that. The ACC has fantastic academics.

Wake Forest
North Carolina
Duke
Georgia Tech
Virginia
Miami
Boston College

Those are all top notch academic schools.
Jun 11, 2010 9:55pm
sleeper's avatar

sleeper

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Jun 11, 2010 10:00 PM
Azubuike24;387390 wrote:I don't know about that. The ACC has fantastic academics.

Wake Forest
North Carolina
Duke
Georgia Tech
Virginia
Miami
Boston College

Those are all top notch academic schools.

Cool story, still can't hold a candle to the Big Ten, sorry.
Jun 11, 2010 10:00pm
krambman's avatar

krambman

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Jun 11, 2010 11:20 PM
Azubuike24;387390 wrote:I don't know about that. The ACC has fantastic academics.

Wake Forest
North Carolina
Duke
Georgia Tech
Virginia
Miami
Boston College

Those are all top notch academic schools.

Very different types of schools though. Four of those school you listed are private schools focused primarily on teaching. The Big Ten has one private school and every school in the Big Ten is a research institution. I guess it all depends on which form you consider to be better academically, the smaller private school or the larger research institution. Most (at least most ranking services) conside research institutions, public or private, as being better academically than non-research schools.
Jun 11, 2010 11:20pm