Manhattan Buckeye;387696 wrote:"I mean I guess I just don't get libertarians....everyone who works in government is incompetent as a general rule because the best and brightest work in the private sector.....but as a general rule, the folks in government are able to pull off massive plots to keep the citizenry down?"

Why is it a massive plot? Most large cities are a one-party operation. What I don't get is how people cannot see that the lack of competition is the problem, whether it is a private sector monopoloy or the government which inherently is a monopoly. Yet "non-libertarians" seem to think the less choice the better.

Boatshoes, you ever buy a new car? We did Memorial Day weekend.

1) The car itself, dozens of competitors, and usually with zoning laws dealerships within a few miles of each other. My wife test drove everything from a Hyundai to an X5, while I sat in the showroom getting free bottles of evian and watching sportscenter with salespeople kissing my rear end. The process was lengthy, but it was lengthy due to our choices as a consumer, not by the producer.

2) Financing. Don't want to pay all cash up front? I can negotiate...with the manufacturer sponsored deal or with the local banks that are happy to get my business. Process took less than 15 minutes and we came to an agreement that was win-win for both the lender and us as a borrower...again dozens of choices. If we were unhappy with the rates quoted by the dealer sponsor, we'd compare and negotiate local banks' offers on lending on a secured asset.

3) Car insurance. A necessity. And again an industry where there are options and the insurance providers work to please the consumer. I've been a satisfied GEICO customer and although we could probably save a few dollars/year by going with State Farm, I like the ease of service with GEICO. In a call less than 10 minutes long the car and the rest of our vehicles were insured and rates were readjusted. Within 10 minutes. Amazing.

4) Tags for the vehicle. Scrreeeeeeecccch. Halt. How can a transaction with a $30,000+ tag get bulloxed by a freaking $45 license plate and registration? Answer - involve a player that has no competition and has no motivation to please the consumer as the consumer has no options. I can't go to another state and get tags. I have no option other than go to the DMV, take my number and sit in line while the surly SEIU employee is p.o.'ed that their 3 day weekend is over and they have to work an 8 hour shift. So on the Tuesday after Memorial Day my wife is pissed because she can't drive her new wheels to work, I'm sitting on plastic government seating and can't even go to the government cafeteria or else I'd lose my place in line if my number is called without my presence. 3 hours of waiting we get our plates, but the state university alumni plates I wanted (and was willing to pay extra for) - oh, sorry, they are out of those for now.

To borrow a phrase from a Sesame Street bit, "One of these things is not like the other, one of these things do not belong." 1-3 involve a competitive marketplace where the consumer has choices and the service provider has external stimuli in addition to internal stimuli to provide the service properly. If the consumer is unhappy, they can simply take their business elsewhere.

4? No competition and no external stimuli and very little internal stimuli. Why would the SEIU worker care that my productivity or general well-being is hindered by their inability to do something as simple as plating a vehicle. There isn't a reason. Their pay and job security has no bearing on the service provided. And people really want more government expansion?!?!

Manhattan Buckeye;387696 wrote:"I mean I guess I just don't get libertarians....everyone who works in government is incompetent as a general rule because the best and brightest work in the private sector.....but as a general rule, the folks in government are able to pull off massive plots to keep the citizenry down?"

Why is it a massive plot? Most large cities are a one-party operation. What I don't get is how people cannot see that the lack of competition is the problem, whether it is a private sector monopoloy or the government which inherently is a monopoly. Yet "non-libertarians" seem to think the less choice the better.

Boatshoes, you ever buy a new car? We did Memorial Day weekend.

1) The car itself, dozens of competitors, and usually with zoning laws dealerships within a few miles of each other. My wife test drove everything from a Hyundai to an X5, while I sat in the showroom getting free bottles of evian and watching sportscenter with salespeople kissing my rear end. The process was lengthy, but it was lengthy due to our choices as a consumer, not by the producer.

2) Financing. Don't want to pay all cash up front? I can negotiate...with the manufacturer sponsored deal or with the local banks that are happy to get my business. Process took less than 15 minutes and we came to an agreement that was win-win for both the lender and us as a borrower...again dozens of choices. If we were unhappy with the rates quoted by the dealer sponsor, we'd compare and negotiate local banks' offers on lending on a secured asset.

3) Car insurance. A necessity. And again an industry where there are options and the insurance providers work to please the consumer. I've been a satisfied GEICO customer and although we could probably save a few dollars/year by going with State Farm, I like the ease of service with GEICO. In a call less than 10 minutes long the car and the rest of our vehicles were insured and rates were readjusted. Within 10 minutes. Amazing.

4) Tags for the vehicle. Scrreeeeeeecccch. Halt. How can a transaction with a $30,000+ tag get bulloxed by a freaking $45 license plate and registration? Answer - involve a player that has no competition and has no motivation to please the consumer as the consumer has no options. I can't go to another state and get tags. I have no option other than go to the DMV, take my number and sit in line while the surly SEIU employee is p.o.'ed that their 3 day weekend is over and they have to work an 8 hour shift. So on the Tuesday after Memorial Day my wife is pissed because she can't drive her new wheels to work, I'm sitting on plastic government seating and can't even go to the government cafeteria or else I'd lose my place in line if my number is called without my presence. 3 hours of waiting we get our plates, but the state university alumni plates I wanted (and was willing to pay extra for) - oh, sorry, they are out of those for now.

To borrow a phrase from a Sesame Street bit, "One of these things is not like the other, one of these things do not belong." 1-3 involve a competitive marketplace where the consumer has choices and the service provider has external stimuli in addition to internal stimuli to provide the service properly. If the consumer is unhappy, they can simply take their business elsewhere.

4? No competition and no external stimuli and very little internal stimuli. Why would the SEIU worker care that my productivity or general well-being is hindered by their inability to do something as simple as plating a vehicle. There isn't a reason. Their pay and job security has no bearing on the service provided. And people really want more government expansion?!?!