Cleveland Buck;376169 wrote:We need more government subsidies and tax credits for tuition and what not. That has done a good job so far of keeping tuition prices under control.

I disagree completely. If you go to a private college like NYU my tax dollars shouldn't pay a dime of it. Just like none of you guys should pay for me to go to college at a private school.

Manhattan Buckeye;376175 wrote:Why do you not think debt is worse? Tuitions and other costs have outpaced inflation for the last decade and probably many years beyond that.

because i dont think $20,000 in student loans for probably about 95% of america is that bad.

Glory Days;376145 wrote:See, i dont buy that. she took out $80,000 more than the average student. to me she was/is trying to be upper class with only middle class assets.

I don't know what her situation was, but she doesn't seem very sympathetic. Still, there are a lot of people who don't have good access to information about college choices. It's tough to fault people for making bad decisions when they made a reasonable choice under the circumstances. I don't know what the answer is, but there are many college students who are making decisions that were good for their parents, great for their grandparents, good for their older siblings . . . and debilitatingly bad for them.

CinciX12;376178 wrote:I disagree completely. If you go to a private college like NYU my tax dollars shouldn't pay a dime of it. Just like none of you guys should pay for me to go to college at a private school.

I'm pretty sure it was meant to be TIC. At any rate, even a private school like Xavier or NYU is subsidized by federal loans.

I'll be in debt 200k when I get out of pharmacy school. Luckily it's a good paying field and it won't take me too long (comparatively) to pay off.

Manhattan Buckeye;376183 wrote:I'm pretty sure it was meant to be TIC. At any rate, even a private school like Xavier or NYU is subsidized by federal loans.

I completely forgot about that. I went and checked to see what portion of mine is. I have both a subsidized and unsubsidized federal loan. The subsidized is barely over $1,000/semester.

I agree that she should be responsible in the sense that she's the one who took out the loan and picked the major that has a small job market and smaller financial returns. However, this is a problem in this country. 30 years ago you could graduate high school, go work in a steel mill/auto plant, and be set with a lifelong career. Now you HAVE to go to college to get a decent job, and some people can't afford it. If you're not ultra smart, ultra poor, or a minority, it may be tough to get a scholarship. It shows further idiocy that all of these federal bailouts are going to the heads of companies who have shown that they are failures in business, as opposed to going to the students with student loan debts who have the potential to succeed in business.

The nice thing is that public schools are becoming better institutions of education. You no longer have to pay $40,000+ a year to receive a quality education. I had a few choices after high school but ultimately it came down to Miami (OH), Xavier, and OSU (didn't originally get in, went to Mansfield campus for 2 quarters). I decided to pick the more affordable option and still receive a good education and it has proven to be a great decision. In this economy college takes planning. People need to research the jobs that are in demand and pay well before they are taking out these huge loans. It may not be fair, but such is life.

CinciX12;376178 wrote:I disagree completely. If you go to a private college like NYU my tax dollars shouldn't pay a dime of it. Just like none of you guys should pay for me to go to college at a private school.

It was sarcasm. Ever since the federal government began trying to make college tuition more affordable for everyone (LBJ's Great Society) the costs have shot through the roof to where soon no one will be able to afford it. You will notice this happens in every industry the government feels should be affordable for everyone.

I do have sympathy for a lot of people who amassed large college loan debt because they were basically lied to. Colleges want potential students and parents to believe that taking out huge loans for schools they can't afford isn't a big deal, that it's something everyone does. They also lead potential students to believe that the education at their school is worth it, that a degree from their institution will ensure them of quick high-paid employment, when right now that isn't the case. You also have to remember that a lot of these people started school back when the job market was good and got screwed when the economy tanked while they were in college. Also, in the five years between when I started and when I finished college, tuition increased at my school from $23K a year to $31K a year. That's nearly a 30% increase in just five years. No one could have expected that kind of tuition hike in such a short time.

The truth is that nothing else in this country has out priced itself more than college. if I were a high school student today, I'd attend a vocational school then apprentice as an electrician or plumber for a year after high school, get my certification, and be making $60K a year.

It's not a clear thing with me. College costs have skyrocketed and anyone who has graduated recently has probably seen a pay cut/not been able to get an actual job. And the "don't get loans" argument is bullshit. I know I wouldn't be able to be in school at all without loans.

You can find idiots that took out $100k of loans for a Liberal Arts degree sure but that isn't most cases. I think most people genuinely are having a more difficult time paying for higher education than they have in the past due to a combination of higher cost of the school and a more difficult time finding work in their field once they have their degree.

krazie45;376256 wrote:It shows further idiocy that all of these federal bailouts are going to the heads of companies who have shown that they are failures in business, as opposed to going to the students with student loan debts who have the potential to succeed in business.

I don't believe any federal bailouts have gone to 'the heads of companies' but rather the companies themselves.

Fab1b;376036 wrote:Its not practical and people need to realize there is still a business side to the college education world!!

Yes, it is a business. However, when you are pumping out a crap product and service, that really isn't good business practice.

krambman;376305 wrote:I do have sympathy for a lot of people who amassed large college loan debt because they were basically lied to. Colleges want potential students and parents to believe that taking out huge loans for schools they can't afford isn't a big deal, that it's something everyone does. They also lead potential students to believe that the education at their school is worth it, that a degree from their institution will ensure them of quick high-paid employment, when right now that isn't the case. You also have to remember that a lot of these people started school back when the job market was good and got screwed when the economy tanked while they were in college. Also, in the five years between when I started and when I finished college, tuition increased at my school from $23K a year to $31K a year. That's nearly a 30% increase in just five years. No one could have expected that kind of tuition hike in such a short time.

The truth is that nothing else in this country has out priced itself more than college. if I were a high school student today, I'd attend a vocational school then apprentice as an electrician or plumber for a year after high school, get my certification, and be making $60K a year.

Now, I'm not going to come on here and cry about my college situation, but I will lay the situation out for you and if anyone cares to respond, feel free. I started out at Bowling Green, an affordable (by comparison to a private school) option with a great program for what I started off majoring in. I went to BG for a year and a half, and decided I would like to be closer to home, so I transferred back to OSU-Newark, and finished my bachelor's degree in 4 years and 1 quarter. I basically took the cheapest option that I could, that still afforded me what I believe to be a quality education. I graduated with a BA in English and minor in journalism. 3 years ago, when I came to OSU, the job prospects in several media fields were very solid for English/Journalism types, especially within Ohio, but have since TANKED with the economic failings. I borrowed slightly under 30k dollars to put myself through college, because both my parents had a HS education, do not make enough money to even pay for a year of my college let alone 4 or 5, and I was told by everyone from the time I was in elementary school that college is the way to go.

As I sit here with slim to no job prospects, 30k in loans accruing interest as we speak, and repayment set to start next month, I have no real idea how I'm going to be making minimum payments. Before anyone says anything, I have no children, a gf who lives with me that pays half of our bills, and 2 crappy jobs. We make it by, but barely as it is, and I have put in over 80 applications in 4 months for careers related to my field, without a single phone call back. I will pay back my loans, and I fully assume responsibility for what I took out and I knew I would have to pay them back; BUT I was one of those people who was 3/4 of the way done with their degree when the economy took a shit, and now I'm stuck paying for loans that should be coming out of a SALARY, but instead I'm going to be trying to begin paying back what I owe waiting tables and loading trucks.

People have told me, "go back and get your masters, that's why you aren't getting any interest, everyone has a master's degree in today's market"...that's what I heard about getting my bachelor's degree 5 years ago. So I'm supposed to go get myself in another 30-50K of debt to HOPE that when I get done with that, someone will hire me? Yeah right. That's like telling a guy digging his own grave to keep digging and you'll get out.

I agree with you Krabman, if I had it to do all over, my ass would be in a vocational school learning a trade, getting an apprenticeship and making more money per year than I'll likely see in the next 5 years combined. I see where you guys are coming from that want people to "stop crying", and I agree the chick needs to pay back what she borrowed, but I can't really control the fact that the market changed so dramatically while I was in school...even though I had nothing to do with the market basically making my degree worth about as much as a wall decoration, I'm the one stuck paying for it, and nobody that are supposed to have answers, have any. It's all fine and good that some of you are in your late 20's, 30's or older, but lets face it, if you graduated college and started your career any time between 1992 and 2006 or so, you really have little idea of what the last few years are like for people who just graduated. Especially people like me who went into a field that was incredibly strong just 4 years ago, and is basically a wasteland now. I took out the loan; yes. I accept responsibilty for my part. But there is another part of this equation that dropped the ball and isn't holding up their part of the deal. I went into my field because there was a strong need and many positions available and projections were good for the next 6-8 years. Now I finish school and there's NOTHING there, and everyone looks at you and says "deal with it". It's easy to say that for you who have been in a career for awhile, who have time to save money, or time to pay back your college debt. I'll trade you spots for a few weeks and see what you think. I'm not saying people shouldn't have to repay their debts; they absolutely should. But I'm sick of seeing people who had their chance and fucked up given second chances, while those of us who have really been put behind the 8 ball the last several years, being forced further into debt by their mistakes, without even being given a first chance, let alone a second.

kayo;376349 wrote:I don't believe any federal bailouts have gone to 'the heads of companies' but rather the companies themselves.

Ok, so the failed companies that are run by the failed company heads.....doesn't really change my point.

Cleveland Buck;376286 wrote:It was sarcasm. Ever since the federal government began trying to make college tuition more affordable for everyone (LBJ's Great Society) the costs have shot through the roof to where soon no one will be able to afford it. You will notice this happens in every industry the government feels should be affordable for everyone.

QFT

And then his head got cut off.

Yet another story of someone being lured by an "elite" school. Rankings and prestige aside, NYU may be one of the most overrated universities in the country. Back in the day when its main campus was in the Bronx NOBODY wanted to go there. Move to the trendy West Village and suddenly its the greatest thing ever. To illustrate how bad that school really is, my sister applied there for graduate school, got accepted only to find out later that the school sent out acceptance letters to hundreds of students by mistake. Yeah real good.

NYU has some fine programs including their Stern business school, and it does have some good continuing education courses, but in the case of the subject at hand, it definitely wasn't worth it.

Another issue I didn't see addressed in the article (unless I missed it), was the role of guidance counselors. I know that many of my peers who attended certain high schools were told not to apply to state or city schools because they were "too good for them." If someone whose job it is to steer children in the right direction is encouraging an elitist view on college, no wonder everyone is in debt.

As for

I took on a mountain of debt when I decided to go to grad school and am now paying $700/month in loan payments. That said, I have a good paying job and great prospects because of it. Was it worth it? For me, yeah. PARENTS and the kids need to decide before going in if the investment is going to be worth it in the end. $80,000 for a job that will likely pay $30,000 a year for the first 5 years is probably not a wise investment. $80,000 for a job that will likely pay $60,000 a year for the first five years is a little more plausible.

Of course, there are a lot of factors outside of the individual's control -- industry collapses, shifts in industry, economic factors -- but generally speaking, it needs to be thought of as an investment from the start, rather than a right or necessity.

My wife's student loans are at 1.35%. We paid on time and direct deposit, and as the loan hit mile stones, the loan % would drop. They were unsubsidized (her dad made to much money).

She "only" took out $25k for four years (parents paid the rest), graduated with just under a 4.0 to work for 2 years at a private school ($22k/yr=$44k) and now is a stay at home mom. Who can I blame? Please I want to blame someone... It can't be our fault...

Conversely I paid my own way by working full-time and taking loans for every other semester, stopped after 2.5 years when I was already making more than I would with my Teaching Degree I was going after. Paid off my student loans less than a year after dropping out. When I think of all of the hours I worked while in college, the parties I missed, no Spring Breaks, and how hard it was just to go to school while working, it makes me sick to have to hear people complain about student loans that they were given access to. Its like blaming a gun for murder.

Coming from someone who has a decent amount of student loans I'm paying off (used loan money to support my family while working on my masters), I think this story is hilarious.

I think student loans should be harder to get, one way to do that is to make the loan amounts available adjusted based on your major and grades since they both go into your immediate earning potential post graduation. Then the loan companies are at least assessing risk.


I'm paying roughly $700/month in student loans, my wife and I made that decision when I was in graduate school. If we wanted a place to live (rent) and food to eat for us and our son I had to take the loans while working on my MS knowing/hoping I'd have the job to pay them back later.

Also, I don't buy the "can't own a home until 40" BS either, I bought our house at 29.

NYU is overrated.

Unless you're attending the Stern Business School there...much better, less expensive options.

Knew a kid who went there and turned down a full ride to Hofstra...now has 200k in debt.

Tough thing is...she is going to have to go into more debt to get into a Ph.D. program that might give her some sort of hope for later employment as a professor.

No one is paying for Ph.D. programs in the Humanities anymore, unless you get really lucky.

Need to go into a field, if you're looking at becoming a professor, where you can be written onto a grant and have your work paid for, or something along those lines. That is what i was accepted for at UNC until i decided that i wanted to defer for 2 years. And, luckily, the grant will still be there when i get back.

Red_Skin_Pride;376424 wrote:Now, I'm not going to come on here and cry about my college situation, but I will lay the situation out for you and if anyone cares to respond, feel free. I started out at Bowling Green, an affordable (by comparison to a private school) option with a great program for what I started off majoring in. I went to BG for a year and a half, and decided I would like to be closer to home, so I transferred back to OSU-Newark, and finished my bachelor's degree in 4 years and 1 quarter. I basically took the cheapest option that I could, that still afforded me what I believe to be a quality education. I graduated with a BA in English and minor in journalism. 3 years ago, when I came to OSU, the job prospects in several media fields were very solid for English/Journalism types, especially within Ohio, but have since TANKED with the economic failings. I borrowed slightly under 30k dollars to put myself through college, because both my parents had a HS education, do not make enough money to even pay for a year of my college let alone 4 or 5, and I was told by everyone from the time I was in elementary school that college is the way to go.

As I sit here with slim to no job prospects, 30k in loans accruing interest as we speak, and repayment set to start next month, I have no real idea how I'm going to be making minimum payments. Before anyone says anything, I have no children, a gf who lives with me that pays half of our bills, and 2 crappy jobs. We make it by, but barely as it is, and I have put in over 80 applications in 4 months for careers related to my field, without a single phone call back. I will pay back my loans, and I fully assume responsibility for what I took out and I knew I would have to pay them back; BUT I was one of those people who was 3/4 of the way done with their degree when the economy took a shit, and now I'm stuck paying for loans that should be coming out of a SALARY, but instead I'm going to be trying to begin paying back what I owe waiting tables and loading trucks.

People have told me, "go back and get your masters, that's why you aren't getting any interest, everyone has a master's degree in today's market"...that's what I heard about getting my bachelor's degree 5 years ago. So I'm supposed to go get myself in another 30-50K of debt to HOPE that when I get done with that, someone will hire me? Yeah right. That's like telling a guy digging his own grave to keep digging and you'll get out.

I agree with you Krabman, if I had it to do all over, my ass would be in a vocational school learning a trade, getting an apprenticeship and making more money per year than I'll likely see in the next 5 years combined. I see where you guys are coming from that want people to "stop crying", and I agree the chick needs to pay back what she borrowed, but I can't really control the fact that the market changed so dramatically while I was in school...even though I had nothing to do with the market basically making my degree worth about as much as a wall decoration, I'm the one stuck paying for it, and nobody that are supposed to have answers, have any. It's all fine and good that some of you are in your late 20's, 30's or older, but lets face it, if you graduated college and started your career any time between 1992 and 2006 or so, you really have little idea of what the last few years are like for people who just graduated. Especially people like me who went into a field that was incredibly strong just 4 years ago, and is basically a wasteland now. I took out the loan; yes. I accept responsibilty for my part. But there is another part of this equation that dropped the ball and isn't holding up their part of the deal. I went into my field because there was a strong need and many positions available and projections were good for the next 6-8 years. Now I finish school and there's NOTHING there, and everyone looks at you and says "deal with it". It's easy to say that for you who have been in a career for awhile, who have time to save money, or time to pay back your college debt. I'll trade you spots for a few weeks and see what you think. I'm not saying people shouldn't have to repay their debts; they absolutely should. But I'm sick of seeing people who had their chance and fucked up given second chances, while those of us who have really been put behind the 8 ball the last several years, being forced further into debt by their mistakes, without even being given a first chance, let alone a second.

I sympathize deeply with your problem, having worked all my career in your field. That said, you DO have options now, just not as many and certainly different (and probably ones that don't pay as well...although a beginning journalist generally makes crap money.)

I have to assume you've checked out New media sites and tried to work into a job that way. It's probably every bit as competitive or worse now because of how badly newspapers, in particular, are failing. You almost have to start small (blogging, etc.) and find a niche so what you are providing is valuable to somebody and they want to pay you.

When I got my journalism/communications degree from BG, I did so in education, so that teaching was a fallback option for me. It's not that I wanted to teach as a first choice, but it was something I found interesting and felt could enjoy as a career.

If you're going to go back to school, I'd probably think about teaching as one option with what you've already put into your education. Until the media market stabilizes and figures out how to make a profit in the Internet age, I don't see newspapering getting any better. In fact, I see it getting worse, especially for smaller markets.

Whatever you decide to do, good luck. I hate to see what's happening in journalism today (its death knell in so many cases). Again, good luck. I'll keep you in my thoughts.

Red Skin Pride-You know there are "financial hardship deferments" to put off paying for awhile on student loans right?

Doesnt defering on student loans basically fuck your credit?

Pick6;377427 wrote:Doesnt defering on student loans basically fuck your credit?

No, but they will continue to earn interest. It can make a bad situation worse.