lhslep134 wrote:

2quik4u wrote:

lhslep134 wrote:

2quik4u wrote:

lhslep134 wrote:

2quik4u wrote:

lhslep134 wrote:

2quik4u wrote: Couldnt the same be said for Lebron?

Lebron is playing at a time where he might not even be the most athletic guy on his team (a bunch of people think it could be Moon, Lebron is just a lot stronger, and obviously a LOT better). There are athletes in the league who are similar to Lebron in athleticism, but the same cannot be said for Brown. Lebron, athletically, is not really ahead of his time compared to how much so Brown was.


A similar comparison to Jim Brown would be Oscar Roberson in the time that he played in the NBA.

[size=xx-large]LOL[/size]


give some names that are similar to lebron in athleticism

Josh Smith, Dwight Howard, Amare Stoudemire

He is stronger then all those guys cept maybe D12, way faster, and has more agility. There is no one close to lebrons athleticism. He has it all size, speed, power, agility.

You didn't ask who was more athletic, you asked who was similar. If you re-read my edited post, I said obviously there's no one quite like Lebron.

And I answered you with people are ARE similar.

How are they similar? All those guys play center or pf, Lebron is a sf. Lebron is so much faster then those guys it isnt funny.

And Ty Lawson is faster than Lebron. So what's your point? It's not just about speed. Like I said after I posted the link, the fact that other players were even mentioned means that they deserve to at least be considered similarly, if you're ignorant to that concept then it's unfortunate.

My point is there is no one like Lebron, he is ahead of his time. There has never been a athlete in the nba with that much size, power, speed, agility, jumping ability. Now you will find guys who have more then one trait like d12 for instance he is strong and can jump out of the building but he doesn't come close to lebron in athleticism.

2quik4u wrote:
My point is there is no one like Lebron, he is ahead of his time. There has never been a athlete in the nba with that much size, power, speed, agility, jumping ability. Now you will find guys who have more then one trait like d12 for instance he is strong and can jump out of the building but he doesn't come close to lebron.

I see what you're saying, I honestly do, but the point I'm trying to make is that the gap between Lebron and everyone else is a LOT smaller than the gap between Jim Brown and everyone else. I suppose I should have worded it that way.

Please stop with the replies that include every damn post lol.

My bad haha I was too lazy to delete them.

Lebron is the best player to have ever played, period.

We had the Barry/Emmitt discussion about a week ago and all but about 3 people said Barry was better than Emmitt. Smith gets a lot of credit but he isn't a top 5 back in my opinion. His numbers outside of total TD's are right with or below Sanders in every category. Does anyone really think he is the all time leading rusher playing for the Tampa Bay Bucs during the 90's? He benefited greatly from the talent around him in Dallas and was not near as dynamic or as good for that matter as Sanders, Brown, Peyton, and a few others.

Good call on Sergio Garcia whomever mentioned him.

KnightXC1 wrote:
Good call on Sergio Garcia whomever mentioned him.

I don't think Sergio Garcia is overrated at all. I'm pretty sure he's rated as a guy who's a damn good ball striker but can't make clutch putts or clutch shots. I don't know of anyone who thinks anything better than that of him, so I think he's rated just about right.

Brett Favre

Would anyone else agree that we are talking about players being overhyped as opposed to overrated?

I think there is a difference between the 2.

bigkahuna wrote: Would anyone else agree that we are talking about players being overhyped as opposed to overrated?

I think there is a difference between the 2.

They tend to go together, although that's not always the case.

I'm no fan of Derek Jeter, for example, and am positive that if he were in Kansas City, he wouldn't be talked about in the awed hushed tones that he is. But he'll end up being a deserving HOFer. We can look to Craig Biggio as a great example of a horribly underrated player, mostly because he was under the radar his entire career.

I'll throw another name out there in the truly overrated and overhyped category: Tom Brady. His best season is an obvious fluke, and that in itself was a creation of keeping the starting offensive players in until the end of the game. Remember him throwing the ball with a 30+ point lead and about five minutes to go?

Idc who you are...if you're top 5 or 6 or in the NBA in career scoring Avg....you're a beast

sleeper wrote: Lebron is the best player to have ever played, period.

I will respectfully disagree on this one as of RIGHT NOW. Lebron is a GREAT player and is certainly NOT overrated IMO because was the Cleveland Cavaliers for his first several seasons in the NBA. Now, they've finally aquired a solid cast to support him and he still puts up ridiculous numbers. But as anyone associated with any sport will tell you, you're primarily remembered (legacy) for championships. I think the Cavs will win it this year, and it likely won't be the only time LeBron will win a championship. That's why I say I disagree RIGHT NOW. He may end up taking over the top spot, but honestly right now to say that a LeBron with 0 championships is better than Michael Jordan is a little bit of a stretch. And I would agree with you if Jordan was the beneficiary of JUST being on a good team, but come on. Take MJ off that team and they likely don't even play for one championship, let alone win what, 6 of them?

Jordan was the best player on a team that was basically the most dominant group in NBA history. Not only did they win in the postseason (where MJ usually played his best basketball), but they also dominated the regular season. The '95 team went 72-10...I mean seriously??? When people like Larry Bird, who in his own right is one of the top 10 best players to probably ever play the game, say that you are "God disguised as Michael Jordan" after they play you, it's hard not to look at how good other players thought he was, how good fans thought he was and still think he was to this day, and his career numbers, and rank someone else ahead of him right now.

I hated to even disagree with you because I think LeBron is an absolutely phenomenal player and I'm not one to ever say anything bad about him, but I wanted to put in my 2 cents lol.

Eh, I disagree. The all time greats are all time greats regardless of championships.

Ted Williams, arguably greatest hitter of no time, no rings.

Dan Marino, arguably greatest QB of all time, no rings.

You have to remember we're talking about team sports. If you put Michael Jordan on a team without Dennis Rodman and Scottie Pippen he might not have won any titles. You still need a good supporting cast despite having a transcendental player.

lhslep134 wrote: Eh, I disagree. The all time greats are all time greats regardless of championships.

Ted Williams, arguably greatest hitter of no time, no rings.

Dan Marino, arguably greatest QB of all time, no rings.

You have to remember we're talking about team sports. If you put Michael Jordan on a team without Dennis Rodman and Scottie Pippen he might not have won any titles. You still need a good supporting cast despite having a transcendental player.

Good point. And to a point I agree with you. But I just don't see how you put him ahead of Jordan right now. Especially with the Cavs coming up short the past few year, even though the supporting cast should have been enough.

Both players = transcendental
LeBron= 0 rings (still time, and will get at least 1 this year IMO; also, to be fair, Jordan didnt win his first title until 6 or 7 seasons into his NBA career, so like I said, plenty of time for LJ)
Jordan = 6 rings

Jordan is greater RIGHT NOW. JMO, but I fully understand and respect yours, and the other posters who feel LeBron is. I personally feel that he is already the 2nd best player ever without any rings. Hard to tell what might happen if the Cavs ever get over the proverbial hump/fire Mike Brown lol.

In my eyes this question has a very simple answer, as much as I hate to say it..

Wilt Chamberlain

Red_Skin_Pride wrote:

sleeper wrote: Lebron is the best player to have ever played, period.

I will respectfully disagree on this one as of RIGHT NOW. Lebron is a GREAT player and is certainly NOT overrated IMO because was the Cleveland Cavaliers for his first several seasons in the NBA. Now, they've finally aquired a solid cast to support him and he still puts up ridiculous numbers. But as anyone associated with any sport will tell you, you're primarily remembered (legacy) for championships. I think the Cavs will win it this year, and it likely won't be the only time LeBron will win a championship. That's why I say I disagree RIGHT NOW. He may end up taking over the top spot, but honestly right now to say that a LeBron with 0 championships is better than Michael Jordan is a little bit of a stretch. And I would agree with you if Jordan was the beneficiary of JUST being on a good team, but come on. Take MJ off that team and they likely don't even play for one championship, let alone win what, 6 of them?

I agree for the most part, he hasn't really established much of a legacy, and truth be told the masses(read: media) won't crown someone as the greatest ever until they win a bunch of championships. I think Jordan is a very good player, but he's nowhere near as talented as Lebron. If you compare the two as basketball players, and leave out accomplishments, the talent level is night and day and you can take that to the bank.

sleeper wrote:

Red_Skin_Pride wrote:

sleeper wrote: Lebron is the best player to have ever played, period.

I will respectfully disagree on this one as of RIGHT NOW. Lebron is a GREAT player and is certainly NOT overrated IMO because was the Cleveland Cavaliers for his first several seasons in the NBA. Now, they've finally aquired a solid cast to support him and he still puts up ridiculous numbers. But as anyone associated with any sport will tell you, you're primarily remembered (legacy) for championships. I think the Cavs will win it this year, and it likely won't be the only time LeBron will win a championship. That's why I say I disagree RIGHT NOW. He may end up taking over the top spot, but honestly right now to say that a LeBron with 0 championships is better than Michael Jordan is a little bit of a stretch. And I would agree with you if Jordan was the beneficiary of JUST being on a good team, but come on. Take MJ off that team and they likely don't even play for one championship, let alone win what, 6 of them?

I agree for the most part, he hasn't really established much of a legacy, and truth be told the masses(read: media) won't crown someone as the greatest ever until they win a bunch of championships. I think Jordan is a very good player, but he's nowhere near as talented as Lebron. If you compare the two as basketball players, and leave out accomplishments, the talent level is night and day and you can take that to the bank.

I also agree with this 99%, although I think Jordan had a more consistent jumpshot; LeBron has a few inches on MJ and definately a few more pounds (meaning muscle) and he gets a LOT of his points from driving. Jordan got the majority of his points from the pullup J and crossing people over and fading away. And I agree with your sentiments about the media; however unfair, you are judged by "the masses" by championships. You don't hear many people arguing that Dan Marino is THE greatest QB ever. He's ALWAYS mentioned as "one" of the greatest, but if you ask 10 people who know who Joe Montana and Dan Marino are, they'll pick Montana every time. Because he is perceived as equally good as Marino, but won several championships to Marino's 0.

However, I'm going to stop even responding to this topic because I don't want it to sound like I'm arguing with you, because I'm not! I think we can agree that neither LJ or MJ are overrated. They are--and I think rather easily--recognized as the two best players to ever play the game

L-James-Cleveland Cavs

http://espn.go.com/page2/s/list/mostoverrated.html

http://www.the-top-tens.com/lists/top-ten-most-overrated-athletes.asp

Having Pele and Ronildinho on this list seems iffy

Alexi Yashin was vastly overated.

Nice list, but where's VC'c cousin T-Mac? He needs to be on that list.

The_Crosby_Show wrote: Alexi Yashin was vastly overated.

I agree. It's about time someone mentions hockey lol. It's hard to put them into this discussion because of how little they are rated by many analysts, not to mention how much ESPN doesn't like to talk about the sport. Many hockey players become underrated because of this.

As far as hockey players that are/were overrated, Paul Coffey comes to mind.

said_aouita wrote:

LTrain23 wrote:

Dirk Nowitzki is another guy who is vastly overrated by a lot of people.. I remember hearing people say he could be/was better than Larry Bird...

Yeah.... NO!

I'd take Dirk over Bird. What is Dirk, like four inches taller then Bird?


Over rated= Karl Malone.

Hmmmmmmm

bwcomet89 wrote:

The_Crosby_Show wrote: Alexi Yashin was vastly overated.

I agree. It's about time someone mentions hockey lol. It's hard to put them into this discussion because of how little they are rated by many analysts, not to mention how much ESPN doesn't like to talk about the sport. Many hockey players become underrated because of this.

As far as hockey players that are/were overrated, Paul Coffey comes to mind.

Idk.........

For what he did with the Pens and Oilers, no. What he did after that yes.