Apple wrote: JT- my daughter falls right into this category, and CenterBHSFan, she prefers to wear tight fitting skimpy clothes. But not emo!!! ha! She does not look her age and she has always acted more mature. She's always been way ahead of the curve and disinterested when it comes to guys her own age.

I feel for ya Apple I am happy that I have a son, not having these issues to deal with. I am not saying your parenting is right or wrong just trying to prove a few points that seam to often get overlooked. Good Luck with the whole situation!

Yes the girls these age like older guys, guys there age usually are not very mature. I remember being one, hating it when the older guys were dating the girls our age. But what goes around comes around eventually.

Center, I think it might be a little bit of both, the clothes def. play a part also think it has something to do with food (steroids, fertilizers etc,) and natural DNA progression.

This whole strict rule thing and outcomes is overrated, because his rules don't sound that strict. In fact, they're probably right on par for households across America where a 17-year old girls are raised. I think the only different thing is that Apple didn't raise hell when he walked in. No offense Apple, but your daughter's side of the story sounds like horeseshit.
We can all exchange personal accounts of people we knew that grew up in different households and how they worked out. I do think Red Skin Pride's friend was a rare case of mid-teens moving out and making it without their parents support. Although the next child I raise will also be my first, it doesn't take a genius to figure out there's a fine line between being oppressive and knowing what's best. A lot of parents might "back off" and let their children make questionable decisions, and that's how they end up pregnant, or involved in drugs, violence, etc. Then the parents think "Geez I should have been more cautious."

Your ex-wife's theory on parenting sucks, and she should be called out. I've heard that type of thinking before, and it's not sensible - it's lazy. Why should she stop there? Why not give her daughter alcohol and marijuana? I mean she's going to come across it eventually and be tempted to try it right?

Nothing is real easy about this issue. I would hope that your daughter respects you enough to clearly understand that this is against your wishes, and that she will not let it happen again.

I have not read this entire thread, so sorry if things have been talked about already. Clearly they can do freaky, freaky wherever they want. They can rent a motel 6, have sex for a few hours... she could be home by midnight, but is this better? I would not allow them to sleep at the house either, but there is probably more underlying here. Why does she want to date someone older? What happened with you and your ex-wife that may have triggered her actions? Did you do something you are not aware of that she feels damamged your relationship and she is reacting... something where she really needed you and you were unable to be there for her due to your relationship with your ex-wife or work? What friends of her hers are doing similar things? Is this 24 yr. old a quality person with a great career, or is he hanging out with the youngsters selling drugs and reliving his high school football days for the rest of his life? Is he impressing her by going to eat at Outback instead of Burger King/McDonald's with a 17 yr. old boy? Does she think since she she graduated that she is mature enough to handle older men?

Do not be afraid to get some serious professional help so that you can maintain a wonderful relationship with your daughter... the rest of your lives. I would also recommend reading a book Called "Strong Fathers... Strong daughters" It is a great read about parenting and mutual respect.

To sum up my feeling's... kids want and need discipline (within reason) until someone has hurt them in some way mentally (divorce, trust, having their back, etc).

Best wishes in your challenge.

Red_Skin_Pride wrote: Sorry to tell you, but parents like you are the reason a lot of kids leave home early and never finish school or never reach the full potential of what they would have done had they had a had someone who took a little more time to care and a little less time to be billy badass. One of my best friends had a father just like you, and he told him to shove his house, and all his rules, right up his ass and left home when he was 15 and has never been back, called, written or made contact with his dad since and has ZERO interest to do so. Now luckily my friend had a good head on his shoulders and DID finish high school, and is now in college about to graduate. And guess who's taking care of Billy "the dad" badass when he gets older? Nobody. Because he was too busy making rules instead of caring about his kids when they were growing up, so his kid isn't going to care about him when he gets older.

Or maybe your friend should have quit trying to be "Billy Badass" and just follow his dad's rules. It goes both ways.

This is stupid. There's no way we can understand the entirety of any of these situations without making huge assumptions about one or more of the parties involved (parents, kids).

friendfromlowry wrote:... A lot of parents might "back off" and let their children make questionable decisions, and that's how they end up pregnant, or involved in drugs, violence, etc. Then the parents think "Geez I should have been more cautious."

This is true, believe me.

friendfromlowry wrote: Your ex-wife's theory on parenting sucks, and she should be called out. I've heard that type of thinking before, and it's not sensible - it's lazy. Why should she stop there? Why not give her daughter alcohol and marijuana? I mean she's going to come across it eventually and be tempted to try it right?

Just to clarify things, my comment was not intended to be an indictment on the ex's parenting skills, just an example how divorced parents who have differing parenting techniques give their kids confusing signals and rules.

In all honesty, the ex and I are virtually always on the same page with most everything concerning the kids. She teaches at a vo-tech high school and sees a ton more issues with teens than I do, so I usually end up opting with her judgement. Piercings, clothing, tattoos, hairstyles, choice of friends have all been issues that I guess I caved on over time that I wish I hadn't. Not that I was trying to "be my kid's friend", but if I had been more stern/authoritarian, I am certain the relationship I have with my kids would be suffering today.

Divorced parents need to choose their battles. The ex and I have rarely battled and I hope this has taught our kids a good lesson about solving problems like adults rather than letting emotions dictate decisions. Unfortunately, there are times, like this one, when the message we send is confusing to the kids.

Then just explain to your daughter that while most of the time you and her mother agree on what is appropriate and what isn't that you disagree on this point (the staying over) and that you hope that she can respect that rule better in the future.

Apple wrote:

friendfromlowry wrote:... A lot of parents might "back off" and let their children make questionable decisions, and that's how they end up pregnant, or involved in drugs, violence, etc. Then the parents think "Geez I should have been more cautious."

This is true, believe me.

friendfromlowry wrote: Your ex-wife's theory on parenting sucks, and she should be called out. I've heard that type of thinking before, and it's not sensible - it's lazy. Why should she stop there? Why not give her daughter alcohol and marijuana? I mean she's going to come across it eventually and be tempted to try it right?

Just to clarify things, my comment was not intended to be an indictment on the ex's parenting skills, just an example how divorced parents who have differing parenting techniques give their kids confusing signals and rules.

In all honesty, the ex and I are virtually always on the same page with most everything concerning the kids. She teaches at a vo-tech high school and sees a ton more issues with teens than I do, so I usually end up opting with her judgement. Piercings, clothing, tattoos, hairstyles, choice of friends have all been issues that I guess I caved on over time that I wish I hadn't. Not that I was trying to "be my kid's friend", but if I had been more stern/authoritarian, I am certain the relationship I have with my kids would be suffering today.

Divorced parents need to choose their battles. The ex and I have rarely battled and I hope this has taught our kids a good lesson about solving problems like adults rather than letting emotions dictate decisions. Unfortunately, there are times, like this one, when the message we send is confusing to the kids.

Choosing your battles is right. While you may not like them, tattoos, piercings, clothing and hairstyles are not going to affect her life long term. But something like a DUI, pregnancy, etc, WILL change her life forever. I feel like when I was growing up, my rules changed from trying to teach me respect, hardwork, and how to follow directions. As I got older I feel like the rules I had were in place to keep me from making a mistake that could screw up my whole life.

Being a strict parent is worthless. I never had any rules growing up and that made me highly independent and extremely successful.

Now it's nice when your parents, when you're at the ripe old age of under 25, ask YOU for a loan LOL.

^^^Do you want your kids growing up like this guy? Strict parenting IS the answer!! Just messin' Sleeper!

Con_Alma wrote: I expect certain behaviors from my kids and I am not buying them a car or sending them to college. I am giving them food, clothing and shelter for a couple decades.

I never have understood why parents wouldn't help their kids through college. Do you just not understand the importance of it? Or do you want your kids to do it the "hard way like you did?" Let them start their career's with a huge debt to companies who don't give a flying fuck about them rather than you helping them out and they have a better start. That makes a lot of sense.

I'd kill him and get rid of the body.

Seriously though, I'd put my floot down on this one. While it may happen at your ex-wifes house, it wouldn't be happening at mine.

More importantly, what kid of douchebag is this guy? I'm 25 and wouldn't dream of dating a 17 year old, he's like that tool that would come to the prom still at 24.

If you want I can date your daughter instead. I'm only 21.

Nice try dlazz. Maybe she'll end up at tOSU, but for now she's gonna knock out her gen ed at Sinclair.

steel_curtain wrote: More importantly, what kid of douchebag is this guy? I'm 25 and wouldn't dream of dating a 17 year old, he's like that tool that would come to the prom still at 24.

and what is this guy doing sleeping at apple's house? doesnt he have a place to live?

Glory Days wrote:

steel_curtain wrote: More importantly, what kid of douchebag is this guy? I'm 25 and wouldn't dream of dating a 17 year old, he's like that tool that would come to the prom still at 24.

and what is this guy doing sleeping at apple's house? doesnt he have a place to live?

His parents won't let girls sleep over

Apple, a serious question.

Would you have acted differently if you had a 17 y/o son and he had a 24 y/o girl in his bed?

Naw... he's on easy street. His parents moved to Florida and left him with the house here in town.

rookie_j70 wrote: Apple, a serious question.

Would you have acted differently if you had a 17 y/o son and he had a 24 y/o girl in his bed?

LOL

rookie_j70 wrote: Apple, a serious question.

Would you have acted differently if you had a 17 y/o son and he had a 24 y/o girl in his bed?

Of course, that would have been high five time. It's damn hypocritical if you ask me. We must protect our women.

rookie_j70 wrote: Apple, a serious question.

Would you have acted differently if you had a 17 y/o son and he had a 24 y/o girl in his bed?

My parents would have kicked my ass.

When I was 17 my gf had to stay the night because of a snow storm and they put her in the guest room.

rookie_j70 wrote: Apple, a serious question.

Would you have acted differently if you had a 17 y/o son and he had a 24 y/o girl in his bed?

Good question, but yes, I think I would... He had the same rules. But to be honest, no 24 yo chick would've ever step foot anywhere near his bedroom when he was 17! ...unless she was blind and had no sense of smell! Ha!

Apple wrote: Naw... he's on easy street. His parents moved to Florida and left him with the house here in town.

haha so wait, this kid has his own house and he is sleeping in your house? forget the part about sleeping with your daughter, we have bigger issues here!

Glory Days wrote:

Apple wrote: Naw... he's on easy street. His parents moved to Florida and left him with the house here in town.

haha so wait, this kid has his own house and he is sleeping in your house? forget the part about sleeping with your daughter, we have bigger issues here!

Seriously.

Set no standard except no standard of respect in return.............