Quite a shock for Poland. They were on their way to attend ceremonies marking the anniversary of the 1940 Katyn Forest massacre, where Soviet secret police killed 22,000 Polish officers. This is why high ranking members of the military were on the plain as well

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1264964/BREAKING-NEWS-Plane-carrying-Polish-president-crashes-Russia.html

I am not much of a conspiracy theorist, but when I read that Vladimir Putin would be personally heading up the crash investigation, it got my attention.

My mind began to wonder. The Russians despise the current government in Poland because of their alliance with the US and for signing an agreement to host a missile defense system on Polish soil.

There is also the tensions that still exist because of the Soviet invasion of Poland during WWII. Then following that the cold war years. Heading to Russian soil to commemorate their dead at the hands of the Russian secrete police no doubt criticizing the Russians for their acts. The same KGB old Putin was a member of.

Then I read this article and noticed this statement at the bottom.

The presidential TU-154 had 5 004 flight hours, and 1 823 landings. Since its thorough renovation and repairs in Russia in May 2009, the plane had just 50 landings and 124 flight hours.

http://www.novinite.com/view_news.php?id=115099

If I were the Poles I would get my investigation team over their as soon as possible. I wouldn't let one of Putin's investigators out of my site. That crash site is probably crawling with Russian intelligence.

This is probably nothing more than a tragic accident, and maybe growing up during the cold war gives me a penchant for distrust of the Russians. Especially my distrust of Putin the former KGB member. He still defends that organizations practices today.

^^^Well said.

I had similar thoughts. Is it coincidence and/or a tragic accident that the upper echelon of Polish leadership just happened to be on this flight?

And I also remember the Putin was a lead player in the Soviet KGB.

Poland has a history of being sandwiched between the east and west and has always been a stomping grounds for tyrants. I wouldn't be at all surprised if Putin and Co. had prior knowledge of this "accident" and hoped to use it as an opportunity to set the stage for Russian meddling in Polish affairs...again.

It's no secret that the Soviet remnant has had an erection on for the Poles since Solidarity was the spark that toppled Communist domination in the region including Russia itself.

My only question is are the Poles so negligent in their planning that they would allow ALL of their top leaders to board the same plane?

Can you imagine the chaos that would result if the POTUS, Vice-POTUS, Secretary of State, Speaker of the House, etc. all boarded the same plane and went down?

Of course some of us would probably grin a little under our current political climate....I kid of course.

Just terrible, absolutely terrible.

And, like you guys, i couldn't help but wonder about the Russians in regards to all this...

Crazy how the universe works...the Poles lose many of their top leaders as they are headed to commemorate a massacre in which thousands of Polish officers/leaders were killed...

Absolutely heartbreaking. Your hearts have to go out to the Poles.

I'm not convinced the Ruskies did it, but I would not rule it out. Apparently, they tried to land in heavy fog, and the traffic controllers told them to divert.

But, still heartbreaking.

What a tragedy for an entire nation.

I'm not crying any tears over this. When the communists were in charge of Poland, there were actually laws passed protecting gays and lesbians. Then when the Catholics took over, those laws were abolished.

To hell with all of them.

Johnny One-note strikes again. :rolleyes:

FairwoodKing wrote: I'm not crying any tears over this. When the communists were in charge of Poland, there were actually laws passed protecting gays and lesbians. Then when the Catholics took over, those laws were abolished.

To hell with all of them.

Seriously?

You would rather Poland was still a communist nation?

FairwoodKing wrote: I'm not crying any tears over this. When the communists were in charge of Poland, there were actually laws passed protecting gays and lesbians. Then when the Catholics took over, those laws were abolished.

To hell with all of them.

Removed, personal attack-ptown

Note, refrain from personal attacks, you've been warned.

WOW........PERSONAL ATTACK ALERT!!!!!




This is a tragedy, I am surprised that there has been some kind of sick polish joke though

Devils Advocate wrote: WOW........PERSONAL ATTACK ALERT!!!!!




This is a tragedy, I am surprised that there has been some kind of sick polish joke though

I am Polish, it wasn't a Polish joke. I want a PM from the mod though because I am 100% sure I didn't cross a line that wasn't already crossed.

FairwoodKing wrote: I'm not crying any tears over this. When the communists were in charge of Poland, there were actually laws passed protecting gays and lesbians. Then when the Catholics took over, those laws were abolished.

To hell with all of them.

FK,

That's pretty prejudiced and somewhat bigoted, isn't it?
Not a very open-minded statement from somebody who demands the same from others.

:huh:

FairwoodKing wrote: I'm not crying any tears over this. When the communists were in charge of Poland, there were actually laws passed protecting gays and lesbians. Then when the Catholics took over, those laws were abolished.

To hell with all of them.

You can't be serious...and you say religious people are closed minded and act terrible to homosexuals? You just made yourself look totally hypocritical.

jmog wrote:

FairwoodKing wrote: I'm not crying any tears over this. When the communists were in charge of Poland, there were actually laws passed protecting gays and lesbians. Then when the Catholics took over, those laws were abolished.

To hell with all of them.

You can't be serious...and you say religious people are closed minded and act terrible to homosexuals? You just made yourself look totally hypocritical.

If we gays don't stand up for our own rights, who's going to? The people who were killed were depriving my people of their human rights. That's why I said to hell with them.

No gay person I know would associate themselves with your hate-filled comments, so using the term "my people" is as erroneous as it is pretentious.

On topic,

How did the first lady of Poland deprive any gay person of their rights?
How did two presidential aides deprive any gay person of their rights?
How did a Deputy Foreign Minister deprive any gay person of their rights?
How did someone in charge of war memorials deprive any gay person of their rights?
How did the head of Poland's national bank deprive any gay person of their rights?
How did the head of Poland's Olympic committee deprive any gay person of their rights?

Just to pick a few. The inhumanity displayed in your post is repugnant no matter how just your cause may be.

queencitybuckeye wrote: No gay person I know would associate themselves with your hate-filled comments, so using the term "my people" is as erroneous as it is pretentious.

On topic,

How did the first lady of Poland deprive any gay person of their rights?
How did two presidential aides deprive any gay person of their rights?
How did a Deputy Foreign Minister deprive any gay person of their rights?
How did someone in charge of war memorials deprive any gay person of their rights?
How did the head of Poland's national bank deprive any gay person of their rights?
How did the head of Poland's Olympic committee deprive any gay person of their rights?

Just to pick a few. The inhumanity displayed in your post is repugnant no matter how just your cause may be.

You'll get over it.

FairwoodKing wrote: You'll get over it.

Nice defense of your hate speech (and multiple baldfaced lies). I did happen to notice that you appear to have no answer for my questions.

FairwoodKing wrote:You'll get over it.

Leftist hypocrisy never fails to amaze me.

queencitybuckeye wrote:

FairwoodKing wrote: You'll get over it.

Nice defense of your hate speech (and multiple baldfaced lies). I did happen to notice that you appear to have no answer for my questions.

It's not my fault that the Poles were dumb enough to put so many of their leaders on one broken-down plane. They took a chance and lost.

I am not a hypocrite. I have been very consistent with my views. If you chose not to agree with me, that's your business.

believer wrote:

FairwoodKing wrote:You'll get over it.

Leftist hypocrisy never fails to amaze me.

Your mass, baseless generalizations of entire groups never cease to amaze me.

Especially considering numerous "leftists" on this thread have called out Fairwood

Edited out personal attack- LJ

cbus4life wrote:

believer wrote:

FairwoodKing wrote:You'll get over it.

Leftist hypocrisy never fails to amaze me.

Your mass, baseless generalizations of entire groups never cease to amaze me.

Especially considering numerous "leftists" on this thread have called out Fairwood

+1

cbus4life wrote: Especially considering numerous "leftists" on this thread have called out Fairwood

What leftists? I don't think queencitybuckeye is on the political left. Not saying most on the left would not find his comments disgusting, but they have not come out of the woodwork to denounce them on this thread. Maybe it is because enough of them are not on this site. The few that we have have not chosen to do so, that is if they were online to read the thread.

FairwoodKing wrote:

jmog wrote:

FairwoodKing wrote: I'm not crying any tears over this. When the communists were in charge of Poland, there were actually laws passed protecting gays and lesbians. Then when the Catholics took over, those laws were abolished.

To hell with all of them.

You can't be serious...and you say religious people are closed minded and act terrible to homosexuals? You just made yourself look totally hypocritical.

If we gays don't stand up for our own rights, who's going to? The people who were killed were depriving my people of their human rights. That's why I said to hell with them.

There is a way to stand up for yourself respectfully and a way to be no better than those who choose to oppress you. You have chose to do exactly as they do.

FairwoodKing wrote:

queencitybuckeye wrote:

FairwoodKing wrote: You'll get over it.

Nice defense of your hate speech (and multiple baldfaced lies). I did happen to notice that you appear to have no answer for my questions.

It's not my fault that the Poles were dumb enough to put so many of their leaders on one broken-down plane. They took a chance and lost.

I am not a hypocrite. I have been very consistent with my views. If you chose not to agree with me, that's your business.

So if Obama and the upper echelons of government in this country tragically died in a plane crash, would you be saying the same thing? I mean you live in a country that you have said on here denies you certain rights and he is the leader of that country. So would you be singing the same tune?

Truth is, you don't know if every one of those government officials were against giving gays equal rights or not. They could have been trying to, you don't know for sure.

FairwoodKing wrote:

jmog wrote:

FairwoodKing wrote: I'm not crying any tears over this. When the communists were in charge of Poland, there were actually laws passed protecting gays and lesbians. Then when the Catholics took over, those laws were abolished.

To hell with all of them.

You can't be serious...and you say religious people are closed minded and act terrible to homosexuals? You just made yourself look totally hypocritical.

If we gays don't stand up for our own rights, who's going to? The people who were killed were depriving my people of their human rights. That's why I said to hell with them.

Really?

When Poland was rewarded its independence in 1932, the government "legalized" Homosexuality. You know 13-15 years before Communist CCCP took over?

According to research (something you should do before you spout off)

Homosexuals are allowed to openly serve in the military (something they can't do here).

Besides that, they look pretty on par with the U.S. laws.

You say "human rights." The GLBT community has never been enslaved or imprisoned because they are gay. Unlike some other peoples in Poland's history or our history for that matter.

Personally I don't think that marriage,child bearing, going to college... are rights of people. They are privileges for people who are lucky enough to have them and unavailable for some because of circumstances out of their control. I was lucky enough to go to college and get married....

BTW, I'm pretty far left on the ol' spectrum. Your life is a right, voting is a right...

Life and Liberty are pretty obtainable. Pursuit of Happiness is subjective to the individual, and you can't make everyone happy. Make the greatest amount of people happy and call it a day.

If this is about marriage; let me know when a piece of paper shows how much you love someone. How much does a jointly filed tax return show how much you love someone?

You have the right to LOVE whoever you want, the rest is a privilege.

Good post, BigK!