Bigdogg wrote:

fan_from_texas wrote:

Bigdogg wrote: Back a long time ago I borrowed 2,500 for student loan. The bank took 200 just for processing the loan. Cutting out the middle man on a loan that taxpayers are already on the hook for is good policy.

To some extent, I think this is probably true. The real concern here is that increasing the amount of cheap money available drives up tuition, though it doesn't drive up after-college earnings. This results in many people being able to go to college, but it increases the difficulty of paying the loans back after graduation.

It seems to me that the bigger problem in our country is not that people can't go to college, but that they can go and then are forever mired in debt. As I understand it, this policy addresses the former but exacerbates the latter.

I am not sure that there is a positive correlation between cheaper student loans and the increasing cost of tuition. There may be but I am not aware of it.
I have a daughter that finished college last year. She has a degree in business and marketing and 80,000 in loans. She is the second of our children to get a degree and I have one left. Both were good high school students but not good enough to get scholarships. Our income was too high for anything but the basic financial aide package. Ohio is one of the least affordable states to get a college education. The cost of college education needs to more affordable.

I'd ask why in the world she has that much in loans??? As her parents, and you could not qualify for assistance because of your income, why didn't you help pay for college??? Why did she choose an institution that cost so much when she only got a standard degree (not lawyer/doctor/etc..)??? Why would she go so far into debt, and start out her life in such a disadvantaged position money-wise??? Why not something she could afford, like community college for 2 years and then onto 4 yr school while working??? There are a lot of other questions to be answered besides why college is so expensive...first one is where was her parental guidance when she was making college decisions???

pinstriper wrote:

Bigdogg wrote:

fan_from_texas wrote:

Bigdogg wrote: Back a long time ago I borrowed 2,500 for student loan. The bank took 200 just for processing the loan. Cutting out the middle man on a loan that taxpayers are already on the hook for is good policy.

To some extent, I think this is probably true. The real concern here is that increasing the amount of cheap money available drives up tuition, though it doesn't drive up after-college earnings. This results in many people being able to go to college, but it increases the difficulty of paying the loans back after graduation.

It seems to me that the bigger problem in our country is not that people can't go to college, but that they can go and then are forever mired in debt. As I understand it, this policy addresses the former but exacerbates the latter.

I am not sure that there is a positive correlation between cheaper student loans and the increasing cost of tuition. There may be but I am not aware of it.
I have a daughter that finished college last year. She has a degree in business and marketing and 80,000 in loans. She is the second of our children to get a degree and I have one left. Both were good high school students but not good enough to get scholarships. Our income was too high for anything but the basic financial aide package. Ohio is one of the least affordable states to get a college education. The cost of college education needs to more affordable.

I'd ask why in the world she has that much in loans??? As her parents, and you could not qualify for assistance because of your income, why didn't you help pay for college??? Why did she choose an institution that cost so much when she only got a standard degree (not lawyer/doctor/etc..)??? Why would she go so far into debt, and start out her life in such a disadvantaged position money-wise??? Why not something she could afford, like community college for 2 years and then onto 4 yr school while working??? There are a lot of other questions to be answered besides why college is so expensive...first one is where was her parental guidance when she was making college decisions???

This. A degree in business and 80k of debT?

what school did she get that degree from? Unless it's an MBA or she went to UPenn or Harvard or something 80k seems ridic

Do you guys know what the average student loan debt is? Look it up and start saving if you have kids. I helped all my kids even the ones without a college education. Once they graduate the debt is theirs. If you want to pay the full price for your kids, that's up to you. I put myself through collage and grad school without my parents assistance.

Bigdogg wrote: Do you guys know what the average student loan debt is? Look it up

Between $14-27k

http://www.acenet.edu/AM/Template.cfm?Section=Home&TEMPLATE=/CM/ContentDisplay.cfm&CONTENTID=12610

http://www.finaid.org/loans/

Bigdogg wrote: Do you guys know what the average student loan debt is? Look it up and start saving if you have kids. I helped all my kids even the ones without a college education. Once they graduate the debt is theirs. If you want to pay the full price for your kids, that's up to you. I put myself through collage and grad school without my parents assistance.

I do have a daugher who is 4, and I put away $300/month in her college plan...hopefully that'll cover her tuition when she gets there, because like you, my income will be too high to get much assistance. However, if it falls short, I will definately sit her down and explain to her the advantages of starting out life DEBT FREE. I understand and respect your opinion on letting/making your kids pay thier own way, but why did they chose one of the Liberal Art schools in Ohio is my question? A little guidance could have informed them that starting out life $80,000 in the hole with nothing to show for it but a business degree would have helped her...just my 2 cents though. Hopefully she lands a great job and plows her way through that loan. Good luck to her.

Average debt for graduating seniors at public universities in 2008: $20,200. 20% higher than the 2004 average of $16850

At private nonprofit universities the average was $27,650. 29% higher than the 2004 average of $21,500

At private for-profit universities the average was $33,050. 23% higher than the 2004 average of $26,850.

http://projectonstudentdebt.org/files/File/Debt_Facts_and_Sources.pdf

I Wear Pants wrote: Average debt for graduating seniors at public universities in 2008: $20,200. 20% higher than the 2004 average of $16850

At private nonprofit universities the average was $27,650. 29% higher than the 2004 average of $21,500

At private for-profit universities the average was $33,050. 23% higher than the 2004 average of $26,850.

http://projectonstudentdebt.org/files/File/Debt_Facts_and_Sources.pdf

This would seem to fit. I had about $5,000 in debt when I graduated from BG in 1976. At the time, I thought I'd never get it paid off (took me almost 10 years) but then again, I was making about $10,000 per year in salary.

LJ wrote:

Bigdogg wrote: Do you guys know what the average student loan debt is? Look it up

Between $14-27k

http://www.acenet.edu/AM/Template.cfm?Section=Home&TEMPLATE=/CM/ContentDisplay.cfm&CONTENTID=12610

http://www.finaid.org/loans/

SMDH. I owed that in 2 semesters.

Mine, just fyi:
OSU undergrad: 15k
University of Maryland grad: 75k

Add in the interest: 101k

I Wear Pants wrote: Average debt for graduating seniors at public universities in 2008: $20,200. 20% higher than the 2004 average of $16850

At private nonprofit universities the average was $27,650. 29% higher than the 2004 average of $21,500

At private for-profit universities the average was $33,050. 23% higher than the 2004 average of $26,850.

http://projectonstudentdebt.org/files/File/Debt_Facts_and_Sources.pdf

Those stats are for the entire US. Ohio has one of the highest cost of college education in the U.S. Here is what it will cost you today. Don't forget room and board.

http://www.collegeview.com/collegesearch/state/ohio.html

Add it up and let me know.

My student debt coming out of college adjusted for inflation: $10,500

The GI Bill and the Ohio Air National Guard underwrote 85% of the rest.

pinstriper wrote:

Bigdogg wrote: Do you guys know what the average student loan debt is? Look it up and start saving if you have kids. I helped all my kids even the ones without a college education. Once they graduate the debt is theirs. If you want to pay the full price for your kids, that's up to you. I put myself through collage and grad school without my parents assistance.

I do have a daugher who is 4, and I put away $300/month in her college plan...hopefully that'll cover her tuition when she gets there, because like you, my income will be too high to get much assistance. However, if it falls short, I will definately sit her down and explain to her the advantages of starting out life DEBT FREE. I understand and respect your opinion on letting/making your kids pay thier own way, but why did they chose one of the Liberal Art schools in Ohio is my question? A little guidance could have informed them that starting out life $80,000 in the hole with nothing to show for it but a business degree would have helped her...just my 2 cents though. Hopefully she lands a great job and plows her way through that loan. Good luck to her.

Good for you, but under the current rules expect to get zero financial aide. I have 2 step kids and 3 of my own. No way I could do that.

I have always thought when I hear a politician speak of making secondary education more affordable that they were shooting their gun in the wrong direction. They speak of how to provide more funds or making funding easier to obtain. They never speak of the costs themselves.

Con_Alma wrote: I have always thought when I hear a politician speak of making secondary education more affordable that they were shooting their gun in the wrong direction. They speak of how to provide more funds or making funding easier to obtain. They never speak of the costs themselves.

To Obama's credit he made a passing notion to secondary schools costs in the SOTU address. On the other hand he made the comment sheepishly and to no applause (either from the GOP or DEMS) after making initial comments to your point about "making it affordable" which got a large response, particularly by the DEMS.

As a corollary to the post above here is the relevant text:

"To make college more affordable, this bill will finally end the unwarranted taxpayer subsidies that go to banks for student loans. (Applause.) Instead, let's take that money and give families a $10,000 tax credit for four years of college and increase Pell Grants. (Applause.) And let's tell another one million students that when they graduate, they will be required to pay only 10 percent of their income on student loans, and all of their debt will be forgiven after 20 years -- and forgiven after 10 years if they choose a career in public service, because in the United States of America, no one should go broke because they chose to go to college. (Applause.)

And by the way, it's time for colleges and universities to get serious about cutting their own costs -- (applause) -- because they, too, have a responsibility to help solve this problem. "


As you can see, greedy banks that make money off student loans = bad. Colleges that are charging confiscatory tuitions are a "by the way" aside (and I don't recall any applause from that comment, if so it was very muted).

I don't see how this is worse than what we had though. To me it seems better although not a miracle I feel like it's an improvement.

Manhattan Buckeye wrote:

Con_Alma wrote: I have always thought when I hear a politician speak of making secondary education more affordable that they were shooting their gun in the wrong direction. They speak of how to provide more funds or making funding easier to obtain. They never speak of the costs themselves.

To Obama's credit he made a passing notion to secondary schools costs in the SOTU address. On the other hand he made the comment sheepishly and to no applause (either from the GOP or DEMS) after making initial comments to your point about "making it affordable" which got a large response, particularly by the DEMS.

I guess that's my point...""made the comment sheepishly" ..."no applause"...

Affordability has two sides...cost is one of them which seems to be an afterthought of many.