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Officials and False Starts

Home ▸ Archive ▸ High School Wrestling ▸ Officials and False Starts
C

Cradleman

Junior Member

23 posts
Feb 23, 2010 7:19 PM
Regarding the new rule this year where an official says "SET" prior to blowing the whistle. I have observed kids making false starts due to the manner in which the official says "set". Some officials are saying the word with such force and voice inflection it causes the kids to jump. In some cases I almost jumped, sitting in the chair.

As I have watched college wrestling matches I have paid particular attention to how it is said there and it seems to be said in a lower tone and emphasis that almost implies the question; are you set?

I hope this issue is discussed among officials at their meetings. I know it is not there intention, or the intent of the rule, to cause the wrestlers to jump.
Feb 23, 2010 7:19pm
cruiser_96's avatar

cruiser_96

Senior Member

7,536 posts
Feb 23, 2010 7:22 PM
When we practice in the room, I give major emphasis on the word set.

...and they always jump.

I told our kids to look at the official to try to get a better grip on what is going on, but alas, I'm the coach and they don't listen to me.

If only I'd tell our kids to reach back or go for a throw when they are up 7 in the 3rd, then maybe they'd do what I'd say. (Kidding, of course!)
Feb 23, 2010 7:22pm
n8gc's avatar

n8gc

Junior Member

27 posts
Feb 23, 2010 7:31 PM
AMEN!!
Feb 23, 2010 7:31pm
B

Bitterrunner-up

Senior Member

632 posts
Feb 23, 2010 7:48 PM
This rule will be gone in a year or two, there's no reason for it. This was one of those things that wasn't broken and didn't need fixing. Remember a couple years ago when EVERY hands to the face was an automatic point. No one calls that anymore. This will gp that way soon.
Cradleman wrote:As I have watched college wrestling matches I have paid particular attention to how it is said there and it seems to be said in a lower tone and emphasis that almost implies the question; are you set?
Interestig side note, I observed and official that did it this way, so after the bout I asked him what he would do if a wrestler answered his "are you set?" question with the answer, "No." The officials said he would call stalling and re-set.

I heart officials.
Feb 23, 2010 7:48pm
cruiser_96's avatar

cruiser_96

Senior Member

7,536 posts
Feb 23, 2010 8:06 PM
Bitterrunner-up wrote: ...
I heart officials.
That's the spirit, bitter.
Feb 23, 2010 8:06pm
Fab1b's avatar

Fab1b

The Bald A-Hole!!

12,949 posts
Feb 23, 2010 8:54 PM
Ok as an official, before the season I actually practiced this so I didn't make the wrestlers jump. What I do and many have adopted in my association is we don't have the whistle in our mouth. I have it in my hand but near my mouth when I tell the top man to get on, once he is on I say set without trying to move, I then place the whistle in my mouth and blow it. This is only a split second pause and I haven't had a problem with this. I have however seen officials that when they say set two things can happen: 1. if the whistle is in their mouth it may blow a bit, causing them to jump and no caution should be issued or 2. the official when he says set he does it loudly or moves or jerks his body causing them to jump, again should not be a penalty. I have actually been assisting a few officials this year when they called set and a wrestler jumped I told the official to whipe their caution away that the official caused it.
Feb 23, 2010 8:54pm
B

Bitterrunner-up

Senior Member

632 posts
Feb 23, 2010 9:58 PM
Fab1b...Did your association give you a reason or rationale for this rule being put into place?
Feb 23, 2010 9:58pm
D

Dad4Sports

Senior Member

1,779 posts
Feb 23, 2010 10:12 PM
This rule has been a disaster all season long.....here's hoping the "powers that be" can get it fixed for next season.....
Feb 23, 2010 10:12pm
Fab1b's avatar

Fab1b

The Bald A-Hole!!

12,949 posts
Feb 23, 2010 10:30 PM
Bitterrunner-up wrote: Fab1b...Did your association give you a reason or rationale for this rule being put into place?
This came from the National Federation. The problem ensued from the rolling starts. It actually became a problem in college and trickled down to High School but you can blame the officials for that!! The problem was in college the top man would get on and as soon as he touched the elbow he was already moving when the ref blew the whistle into the body or to the wrist, ankle, etc.....of course the high school kids picked up on it that as soon as their hands touched the back of the elbow the whistle was blowing and hence the top man had an advantage. So they clarified there must be a pause and set command for the top man.
Feb 23, 2010 10:30pm
B

Bitterrunner-up

Senior Member

632 posts
Feb 23, 2010 10:34 PM
Why not just pause, without the "set"? And doesn't the caution rule already deal with this situation?
Feb 23, 2010 10:34pm
Fab1b's avatar

Fab1b

The Bald A-Hole!!

12,949 posts
Feb 23, 2010 10:50 PM
Bitterrunner-up wrote: Why not just pause, without the "set"? And doesn't the caution rule already deal with this situation?
Yes and no. I agree do we need another set? I know we ask the bottom man if he is set prior to the top man taking his position so perhaps (and this is just me thinking because I am not sure why they put that in but I can get it as I am good friends with a past member of the NFHS Wrestling Rules Board) they were granting the same to the top wrestler and ensuring that by saying set that creates a pause in itself. I do not pause, then say set, saying set is my pause.
Feb 23, 2010 10:50pm
cruiser_96's avatar

cruiser_96

Senior Member

7,536 posts
Feb 24, 2010 8:51 AM
bitter: Understood and agreed. If, as stated above, the problem be with blowing the whistle as soon as the hand goes to the elbow??? Would not an easier solution be to wait until the wrestlers stop moving? ...like it should be??? Like I thought was the rule!?

Are you saying college officials botched this so bad that the only ones who could save us was a national committee.

I heart officials. (New shirt idea!!!)
Feb 24, 2010 8:51am
B

bigdogdad

Member

54 posts
Feb 24, 2010 9:18 AM
It seemed like the officials at AC took a longer then normal time on starts. I agree with the collegiate kids was getting out of hand and something needed done, but it was a good 1.5 to 2 seconds for the whistle. This along with the hand placement underneath was a issue. I won't even bring up the no calls on stalling. I guess I did huh. When a kid puts his head gear on then takes it off to adjust all the while on a knee and no call much less a warning. This happened 3-4 times during one match. In one match a ref called a warning on the agressor because his "move wasn't working". Another match a ref warned a coach because the crowd was getting on him for his 'reffing skills'. Didn't think they were to listen to the crowd and if you are concentrating on the match you shouldn't hear them anyway.
Feb 24, 2010 9:18am
C

Con_Alma

Senior Member

12,198 posts
Feb 24, 2010 9:40 AM
Changing the rule back is one thing. Not be prepared for it is another. All year long in the room coaches had the obligation to get kids ready by making sure they began from the referee's position by having the top man mount with the proper sequence and expecting to hear a set following it....then the whistle.

I remember early in the year many officials before the match explaining to the kids the new rule and even reminding them of the process during the match before a new period started.

I am not pointing at specific cases above or even this sectional but in general coaches need to have prepared the kids for this. They have had an entire year.
Feb 24, 2010 9:40am
K

ksig489

Senior Member

943 posts
Feb 24, 2010 10:14 AM
I have seen maybe 20 false starts this year related to this rule. I have seen way more false starts in the neutral position. I will say, they number of cautions for illegal starting position has skyrocketed now that the officials are actually looking at the top man and his hand placement on the navel and elbow...or for legs touching before the start.

As for telling the ref "no" when he asks if you are set...my 285 did that 2 years ago when got set in the bottom position, the ref asked and he said no, the ref just looked stunned...my kid adjusted his hands a little then said "OK"...and everything continued as normal. It was premeditated and hilarious.
Feb 24, 2010 10:14am
C

Con_Alma

Senior Member

12,198 posts
Feb 24, 2010 10:18 AM
^^^^If they are going to pay attention to the top man's position they need to do it right...which means they need to include the head position being in the center of the back.

I would have loved to have seen that with your HW!
Feb 24, 2010 10:18am
falcon81's avatar

falcon81

Banned

571 posts
Feb 24, 2010 10:24 AM
My twins had 6 cautions in their sectional finals between them . I hate the inconsistency of how the refs put the kids in position and how long HS refs wait to blow the whistle. It seems to be a game of gotcha with the new rules. JMO.
Feb 24, 2010 10:24am
C

Con_Alma

Senior Member

12,198 posts
Feb 24, 2010 10:33 AM
How are they inconsistent in "how they put kids in position"? Your kid chooses how to get into position as long as it's in compliance.
Feb 24, 2010 10:33am
D

Dad4Sports

Senior Member

1,779 posts
Feb 24, 2010 11:12 AM
falcon81 wrote: My twins had 6 cautions in their sectional finals between them . I hate the inconsistency of how the refs put the kids in position and how long HS refs wait to blow the whistle. It seems to be a game of gotcha with the new rules. JMO.
Agree.....the problem I have is just in the inconsistentcy of how the new rule has been applied. Huge difference in the "mechanics" from ref to ref.....no wonder the kids are still having trouble with it.
Feb 24, 2010 11:12am
C

Con_Alma

Senior Member

12,198 posts
Feb 24, 2010 11:20 AM
The rule is pretty simple and clear is it not? Has anyone been cautioned from the top who has done it correctly?

I don't know if I have seen an official call something when a kids was doing it right. Has anyone else?
Feb 24, 2010 11:20am
falcon81's avatar

falcon81

Banned

571 posts
Feb 24, 2010 11:30 AM
Cautions are sky high since the new rules. Thats a fact. The length of time a ref waits to blow whistle is a problem and very inconsistent. In college its instantly off the "set" every time. With some HS Refs it an eternity. Lets not play a game and have them all do it differently. Also be willing to reverse cautions do to whistles on other mats and mis cues from Ref which due happen.
Feb 24, 2010 11:30am
C

Con_Alma

Senior Member

12,198 posts
Feb 24, 2010 11:37 AM
falcon81 wrote: Cautions are sky high since the new rules. Thats a fact. The length of time a ref waits to blow whistle is a problem and very inconsistent. In college its instantly off the "set" every time. With some HS Refs it an eternity. Lets not play a game and have them all do it differently. Also be willing to reverse cautions do to whistles on other mats and mis cues from Ref which due happen.

No doubt cautions from other whistles along with miscues from a ref should be corrected. I have seen this happen.

If the concern is the difference in length between"set" and whistle I understand the point but am yet to agree with it being a bad thing. It's not hurting one wrestler over another. Follow the rules and no caution should be given.

Each wrestler must wait for the whistle..no matter when it's blown. Each wrestler has the same responsibility. There's no disadvantage that I can see for any one participant.

It's been my experience that the increase in cautions is a result of athletes moving before the whistle and not lining up properly.
Feb 24, 2010 11:37am
Fab1b's avatar

Fab1b

The Bald A-Hole!!

12,949 posts
Feb 24, 2010 12:01 PM
^this!
Feb 24, 2010 12:01pm
falcon81's avatar

falcon81

Banned

571 posts
Feb 24, 2010 12:09 PM
Con_Alma wrote: The rule is pretty simple and clear is it not? Has anyone been cautioned from the top who has done it correctly?

I don't know if I have seen an official call something when a kids was doing it right. Has anyone else?
I guess we will have to just agree to disagree and thats ok. I hope they come up with a more quick College style start and all Refs adopt the same timing principles . Its an issue wether you agree with the argument or not.
Feb 24, 2010 12:09pm
C

Con_Alma

Senior Member

12,198 posts
Feb 24, 2010 12:14 PM
I'm not sure we disagree if you read my prior posts. I am still "not certain" that it's a problem yet am open to further evaluating it to determine if it is. It's only been in place for the current year. If it disrupts the sport and doesn't take away an advantage for one wrestler or improve safety for the participants I agree it will have to be addressed.

What I don't wish to see happen is such predictability that wrestlers can anticipate as opposed to react the whistle. The beginning of the match is this way... why shouldn't the beginning of a period be the same?

FYI...the timing process is defined, I believe. Maybe further clarification needs to be added or a point of interest should be placed next year.

Finally, it's my experience that many more cautions are being called based on not lining up properly as opposed to false starts. Why is it that the false starts are a greater concern than the more frequently called mounting process?
Feb 24, 2010 12:14pm