iclfan2 wrote: You can't call Mack a bust. And just because past drafts failed doesn't mean you just throw your first pick away this year on an aging, mediocre, QB.

Well most of the Cleveland fans on here have been saying they can use an upgrade at every position but thomas ad cribbs

Pick6 wrote:

pkebker wrote: Trading first round picks is a boneless thing to do. No way you trade our #1 for McNabb. Maybe if we get their first round pick back. You always want a first round pick in the draft...

Its not like Cleveland would be giving up much if they did trade for them.
1999-Tim Couch
2000-Courtney Brown
2001-Gerard Warren
2002-William Green
2003-Jeff Faine
2004-Kellen Winslow
2005-Braylon Edwards
2006-Kamerion Wimbley
2007- Joe Thomas, Brady Quinn
2008-none
2009- Alex Mack


Yes pretty much the only one of them that weren't a bust was Joe Thomas.

Kellen Winslow is a good TE, just an attitude problem.
Kamerion Wimbley is pretty good.
Joe Thomas is great.
Alex Mack showed great promise, and will be really good.

It's not as terrible as some people think...The Lions are worse at drafting than us lol..

Mack is, by far, NOT a bust.

I would consider trading 1st round picks for McNabb. But I like the future of Kolb better.

Lol at Mack being a bust.

No way do I do this trade for McNabb. I'd rather pick McClain or Haden then pick up an old veteran QB in the FA market.

Let's see:

Use the #7 pick to take a QB that won't do much because 1) we have no right side of the offensive line and 2) we don't have WR's that can catch the ball for him... or.... take a chance that McClain, Berry, or Haden is going to be a stud, pay them the #7 money, instead of paying McNabb QB money, and let them develop on defense and turn into studs for 7-10 years.

I'll take the latter.

If this were about 4-5 years ago, I'd consider it, but this team is way more than just a QB away from even getting to .500. We have piss poor WR's. We have a right side of the line that makes QB's shit themselves. We have a defense that is terribly inconsistent. One week they'll shut down Baltimore, then give up a ton of points to Detroit, and then shut down Pittsburgh.

This team needs A LOT of help. If anything, I'd rather trade down again.

DaBrowns41 wrote: Let's see:

Use the #7 pick to take a QB that won't do much because 1) we have no right side of the offensive line and 2) we don't have WR's that can catch the ball for him... or.... take a chance that McClain, Berry, or Haden is going to be a stud, pay them the #7 money, instead of paying McNabb QB money, and let them develop on defense and turn into studs for 7-10 years.

I'll take the latter.

If this were about 4-5 years ago, I'd consider it, but this team is way more than just a QB away from even getting to .500. We have piss poor WR's. We have a right side of the line that makes QB's shit themselves. We have a defense that is terribly inconsistent. One week they'll shut down Baltimore, then give up a ton of points to Detroit, and then shut down Pittsburgh.

This team needs A LOT of help. If anything, I'd rather trade down again.

Call me delusional if you want...and I know it sounds crazy when you think of where we were 2 months ago...but the Browns aren't that far from .500. They won 5 games as it is...they got screwed in Detroit and lost in OT to Cincy. If they find a way to pull those two games out, they are 7-9. You don't think McNabb would be worth another win or two?

Upgrade the right side of the O-line, get another WR through FA, add a couple of playmakers on defense, and there is no reason why this team couldn't be .500 or better next year.

Gobuckeyes1 wrote:

DaBrowns41 wrote: Let's see:

Use the #7 pick to take a QB that won't do much because 1) we have no right side of the offensive line and 2) we don't have WR's that can catch the ball for him... or.... take a chance that McClain, Berry, or Haden is going to be a stud, pay them the #7 money, instead of paying McNabb QB money, and let them develop on defense and turn into studs for 7-10 years.

I'll take the latter.

If this were about 4-5 years ago, I'd consider it, but this team is way more than just a QB away from even getting to .500. We have piss poor WR's. We have a right side of the line that makes QB's shit themselves. We have a defense that is terribly inconsistent. One week they'll shut down Baltimore, then give up a ton of points to Detroit, and then shut down Pittsburgh.

This team needs A LOT of help. If anything, I'd rather trade down again.

Call me delusional if you want...and I know it sounds crazy when you think of where we were 2 months ago...but the Browns aren't that far from .500. They won 5 games as it is...they got screwed in Detroit and lost in OT to Cincy. If they find a way to pull those two games out, they are 7-9. You don't think McNabb would be worth another win or two?

Upgrade the right side of the O-line, get another WR through FA, add a couple of playmakers on defense, and there is no reason why this team couldn't be .500 or better next year.

That's a lot to add...

Wow. McNabb for two years or The Browns current QB situation. Ummm, yes I would take an older McNabb. But hey, Browns fans see differ, why am I not surprised. Kolb? Are you serious? I would like to see Troy Smith there though.

if i were the browns i would take him, even if it were just for 1-2 seasons

look what brett has done for the vikings in just ONE year (super bowl baby), the vikings were a mediocre team the past 2-3 years with tarvaris jackson and gus ferotte (neither been stellar qb's), but look what adding a quarterback did for this team, made them 2 dimensional..allowed more play action

could be the spark the browns really need

The situations aren't even compareable! The Vikings were only a QB away from being a very good team. The Browns need alot of pieces before they worry too much about a QB. Build a defense and a running game, then go out and get a QB.

Call me weird, but I am not ready to give up on Brady Quinn.

Gobuckeyes1 wrote:

DaBrowns41 wrote: Let's see:

Use the #7 pick to take a QB that won't do much because 1) we have no right side of the offensive line and 2) we don't have WR's that can catch the ball for him... or.... take a chance that McClain, Berry, or Haden is going to be a stud, pay them the #7 money, instead of paying McNabb QB money, and let them develop on defense and turn into studs for 7-10 years.

I'll take the latter.

If this were about 4-5 years ago, I'd consider it, but this team is way more than just a QB away from even getting to .500. We have piss poor WR's. We have a right side of the line that makes QB's shit themselves. We have a defense that is terribly inconsistent. One week they'll shut down Baltimore, then give up a ton of points to Detroit, and then shut down Pittsburgh.

This team needs A LOT of help. If anything, I'd rather trade down again.

Call me delusional if you want...and I know it sounds crazy when you think of where we were 2 months ago...but the Browns aren't that far from .500. They won 5 games as it is...they got screwed in Detroit and lost in OT to Cincy. If they find a way to pull those two games out, they are 7-9. You don't think McNabb would be worth another win or two?

Upgrade the right side of the O-line, get another WR through FA, add a couple of playmakers on defense, and there is no reason why this team couldn't be .500 or better next year.

Well, if there were any good FA's this year, it may be different, but the FA pool this year is significantly thinner thanks to no CBA. If we want a top notch FA that is less than 6 years into their career, we will have to pay up with draft picks by matching the tender of another team.

We could go for guys like Mawae, I guess... We could grab TO, I suppose...

Adding a few play makers on defense isn't an easy task. If it was as easy as you make it seem, don't you think we would have been able to do that sometime within the last 10 years?

Until we get WR's, a right side of the line, consistency at QB, consistency at RB, and a DE, ILB, OLB, CB, and 2 safeties, we're not going to be competing for the playoffs, and we'll be lucky to win 6-7 games, unless we get the easiest schedule in the league, like we did in 2007.

pkebker wrote:

Gobuckeyes1 wrote:

DaBrowns41 wrote: Let's see:

Use the #7 pick to take a QB that won't do much because 1) we have no right side of the offensive line and 2) we don't have WR's that can catch the ball for him... or.... take a chance that McClain, Berry, or Haden is going to be a stud, pay them the #7 money, instead of paying McNabb QB money, and let them develop on defense and turn into studs for 7-10 years.

I'll take the latter.

If this were about 4-5 years ago, I'd consider it, but this team is way more than just a QB away from even getting to .500. We have piss poor WR's. We have a right side of the line that makes QB's shit themselves. We have a defense that is terribly inconsistent. One week they'll shut down Baltimore, then give up a ton of points to Detroit, and then shut down Pittsburgh.

This team needs A LOT of help. If anything, I'd rather trade down again.

Call me delusional if you want...and I know it sounds crazy when you think of where we were 2 months ago...but the Browns aren't that far from .500. They won 5 games as it is...they got screwed in Detroit and lost in OT to Cincy. If they find a way to pull those two games out, they are 7-9. You don't think McNabb would be worth another win or two?

Upgrade the right side of the O-line, get another WR through FA, add a couple of playmakers on defense, and there is no reason why this team couldn't be .500 or better next year.

That's a lot to add...

Draft one of your defensive playmakers with the first pick, get a RT either through the draft or FA, sign another WR through FA. All three of those things could be done this offseason. Don't forget that Donte Stallworth is back next year as well (for what it's worth...)

In all reality, the Browns are shooting for 2011 and beyond, but I am saying a .500 season next year with the right personnel moves and a couple of breaks isn't unfathomable.

I'm glad your optimistic, unlike most of us. I'm just more realistic. Not to be rude to you. I just don't think that we're going to find all of that in one off-season. It's taken us 10 years just to put together a crappy team as it is. What is so different that we all of a sudden start making all the right personnel decisions? Yes, we have Heckert and Holmgren now, but it doesn't guarantee anything.

There's almost nothing as far as OL in FA because all the good ones are RFA's. Stallworth may be coming back, but the Browns don't have to reinstate him.

DaBrowns41 wrote: I'm glad your optimistic, unlike most of us. I'm just more realistic. Not to be rude to you. I just don't think that we're going to find all of that in one off-season. It's taken us 10 years just to put together a crappy team as it is. What is so different that we all of a sudden start making all the right personnel decisions? Yes, we have Heckert and Holmgren now, but it doesn't guarantee anything.

There's almost nothing as far as OL in FA because all the good ones are RFA's. Stallworth may be coming back, but the Browns don't have to reinstate him.

You're not being rude...no problem there...

I think I am being fairly realistic, too. I'm not saying Super Bowl next year...just in the neighborhood of .500.

What is so different? A front office full of good football minds with strong leadership and a plan. If Holmgren fails here it will be the first time he has failed anywhere. You're right, it's no guarantee...but why not be optimistic about this?

The Browns being .500 is not unrealistic. My prediction right now is 7-9. But that can change depending on who we add (or fail to add) through the draft/trades/FA....

The two things we HAVE to build on is defense and the running game. Show consistently all year long to give this team an identity. Then we'll go from there...

77Legend wrote: Kolb? Are you serious? I would like to see Troy Smith there though.

You go from bashing Browns fans who want the QB who set an NFL record for starting a career with back to back 300+ passing yards, and then throw out Troy fucking Smith?

I'm a huge OSU fan, but that's just pure comedy.

Gobuckeyes1 wrote:

DaBrowns41 wrote: I'm glad your optimistic, unlike most of us. I'm just more realistic. Not to be rude to you. I just don't think that we're going to find all of that in one off-season. It's taken us 10 years just to put together a crappy team as it is. What is so different that we all of a sudden start making all the right personnel decisions? Yes, we have Heckert and Holmgren now, but it doesn't guarantee anything.

There's almost nothing as far as OL in FA because all the good ones are RFA's. Stallworth may be coming back, but the Browns don't have to reinstate him.

You're not being rude...no problem there...

I think I am being fairly realistic, too. I'm not saying Super Bowl next year...just in the neighborhood of .500.

What is so different? A front office full of good football minds with strong leadership and a plan. If Holmgren fails here it will be the first time he has failed anywhere. You're right, it's no guarantee...but why not be optimistic about this?

Maybe it's more mental than anything. How many times have we had a new regime, been pumped beyond belief, only to be let down?

Now, over the course of the years, I think we're going to be very satisfied with Holmgren, and Heckert. As much as I like Quinn, I'm not sold on him being good enough next year with the lack of weapons around him, and potentially putting in a new offensive system (I'm still thinking Daboll will be let go). I love Jerome Harrison, but is he going to be a guy that can get 25 carries a game and be productive? I sure hope so, but I'm not ready to count on James Davis and Chris Jennings just in case. If we don't improve the RG and RT, then we'll just have another problem passing. If we don't get an OC that knows how to make adjustments, we're screwed as well (biggest example: Denver game, Dumervil is killing St. Clair, Royal is dropping passes. Royal is a BLOCKING tight end, yet, he's still running routes and not being called to stay in and help St. Clair, instead letting Quinn get sacked 4 times by one player). And that's just one of many.

We need to play games as a team. We're too freakin' inconsistent. One week, our offense will look solid (Detroit, Cincy game 1, KC, Jax, San Diego), but the defense will get crushed. One week, our defense looks fantastic (Buffalo, Baltimore game 2, Cincy game 2, and Pitt), and our offense will just look lost.

It's frustrating, to say the least. I just want to be able to be confident that we can beat any team and that our defense can compete with anybody, instead of wondering which side of the ball will show up.

I still think the defense needs a lot....I mean those guys played their asses off, but talentwise, upgrades are needed at a lot of positions. I love the scheming that Ryan did this year and with better talent, a solid defense should be sooner rather than later.

SportsAndLady wrote:

77Legend wrote: Kolb? Are you serious? I would like to see Troy Smith there though.

You go from bashing Browns fans who want the QB who set an NFL record for starting a career with back to back 300+ passing yards, and then throw out Troy fucking Smith?

I'm a huge OSU fan, but that's just pure comedy.

+1

wes_mantooth wrote: I still think the defense needs a lot....I mean those guys played their asses off, but talentwise, upgrades are needed at a lot of positions. I love the scheming that Ryan did this year and with better talent, a solid defense should be sooner rather than later.

You know, the Pittsburgh game gave me so much confidence in Rob Ryan. He took guys like Brian Schaefering, Hank Poteat, Marcus Benard, and Kuluka Maiava and made them look like real players that game.

It just makes me wonder what he may be able to do with a guy like Rolando McClain. Imagine McClain and D'Qwell behind Shaun Rogers. Imagine Joe Haden and Eric Wright covering these tough WR's in the AFC.

I have a lot of faith in Rob Ryan. I just hope we find a replacement for Brian Dablow.

DaBrowns41 wrote:

wes_mantooth wrote: I still think the defense needs a lot....I mean those guys played their asses off, but talentwise, upgrades are needed at a lot of positions. I love the scheming that Ryan did this year and with better talent, a solid defense should be sooner rather than later.

You know, the Pittsburgh game gave me so much confidence in Rob Ryan. He took guys like Brian Schaefering, Hank Poteat, Marcus Benard, and Kuluka Maiava and made them look like real players that game.

It just makes me wonder what he may be able to do with a guy like Rolando McClain. Imagine McClain and D'Qwell behind Shaun Rogers. Imagine Joe Haden and Eric Wright covering these tough WR's in the AFC.

I have a lot of faith in Rob Ryan. I just hope we find a replacement for Brian Dablow.

Agreed with everything said here. I really would love to see either McClain or Haden. McClain will help make it very difficult for anyone to run up the middle. Whereas if we got Haden, it would certainly help our passing defense. I still think we are weakest at Safety though...but any Defensive player can help at this point...