Vegas shooting thead

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like_that's avatar

like_that

1st Team All-PWN

26,625 posts
Oct 2, 2017 11:19 AM
salto;1874447 wrote:Great question but more specific; how to prevent anyone from illegally obtaining a weapon.

Criminals will be criminals but laws generally make criminal acts more difficult. All guns, legal or not, are too easy to obtain.
Which is the point we are all making. Generic "we need common sense law" or "we need stricter law" statements on top of the laws we already have never seems to be thought out and doesn't change the fact a piece of shit will find a way to be a piece of shit.

salto;1874450 wrote:Many parts of the constitution are outdated.
There you go. We all know you want to say it... You're getting closer.
queencitybuckeye;1874451 wrote:See "prohibition" and "war on drugs" for two obvious examples of that fallacy.
You beat me to it. Also, decriminalizing all substances would probably do much more for decreasing overall gun crime than any new law gun control law.
Oct 2, 2017 11:19am
Commander of Awesome's avatar

Commander of Awesome

Senior Pwner

23,151 posts
Oct 2, 2017 11:31 AM
This thread reminds me of an old Atlantic article I read a few years back.

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/07/a-land-without-guns-how-japan-has-virtually-eliminated-shooting-deaths/260189/

Not saying we need to go full Japan here, but one stat that I found most obvious, "Of the world’s 23 “rich” countries, the U.S. gun-related murder rate is almost 20 times that of the other 22."

Along with gun violence becoming more standard, hard to argue the status quo.
Oct 2, 2017 11:31am
Q

queencitybuckeye

Senior Member

7,117 posts
Oct 2, 2017 11:34 AM
Another question for the "we need better laws" types - considering the number of victims, today's POS broke literally thousands of laws, including 50+ counts of murder. Please give me the text of the law that would have caused him not to proceed.
Oct 2, 2017 11:34am
like_that's avatar

like_that

1st Team All-PWN

26,625 posts
Oct 2, 2017 11:36 AM
Commander of Awesome;1874466 wrote:This thread reminds me of an old Atlantic article I read a few years back.

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/07/a-land-without-guns-how-japan-has-virtually-eliminated-shooting-deaths/260189/

Not saying we need to go full Japan here, but one stat that I found most obvious, "Of the world’s 23 “rich” countries, the U.S. gun-related murder rate is almost 20 times that of the other 22."

Along with gun violence becoming more standard, hard to argue the status quo.
Going full Japan and Australia is never going to happen in this country. It is a pipe dream for gun control activists.

As for your bolded, I am curious how you came to this conclusion? Gun crime statistically has decreased. Are you speaking more in the sense that people don't even react to gun crime?
Oct 2, 2017 11:36am
Q

queencitybuckeye

Senior Member

7,117 posts
Oct 2, 2017 11:38 AM
like_that;1874471 wrote:Going full Japan and Australia is never going to happen in this country. It is a pipe dream for gun control activists.
It's also overly simplistic, not taking into account the relationship between violence and the homogeneity of populations.
Oct 2, 2017 11:38am
like_that's avatar

like_that

1st Team All-PWN

26,625 posts
Oct 2, 2017 11:38 AM
queencitybuckeye;1874468 wrote:Another question for the "we need better laws" types - considering the number of victims, today's POS broke literally thousands of laws, including 50+ counts of murder. Please give me the text of the law that would have caused him not to proceed.
This too. Most laws are created to punish those who commit the crime, not deter them. This is especially the case when it comes to murder. A piece of shit lunatic isn't worried about his punishment when contemplating his murder(s).
Oct 2, 2017 11:38am
justincredible's avatar

justincredible

Nick Mangold

32,056 posts
Oct 2, 2017 11:42 AM
like_that;1874453 wrote:You beat me to it. Also, decriminalizing all substances would probably do much more for decreasing overall gun crime than any new law gun control law.
I agree that this would go a long way in reducing gun crime.
Oct 2, 2017 11:42am
ptown_trojans_1's avatar

ptown_trojans_1

Moderator

7,632 posts
Oct 2, 2017 11:42 AM
What a tragedy. I just sat this AM glued to the TV and was a little late to work.
Sadly, it did not take long for people to fall into their respective political corners.
I doubt this changes the narrative on gun control. If Newtown didn't, then nothing can.
Interesting how subdued the President's response was and if the shooter had say another name, Middle Eastern sounding. I'm guessing he would have had a twitter storm and his remarks would have been different.

On a larger point, from a public policy point of view, the fact the Government can do nothing to prevent the loss of life of 50 plus people is a little disconcerting.
Oct 2, 2017 11:42am
Q

queencitybuckeye

Senior Member

7,117 posts
Oct 2, 2017 11:45 AM
ptown_trojans_1;1874478 wrote: I doubt this changes the narrative on gun control.
How can it until we at least wait to see if all existing gun laws were obeyed? If they were, then have the conversation. If not, how would more laws be helpful?
Oct 2, 2017 11:45am
J

jmog

Senior Member

6,567 posts
Oct 2, 2017 11:45 AM
salto;1874397 wrote:You'll wait for the details, but still offer your opinion. Got it, thanks.

Lets also discuss how easy it is for mentally ill people to legally obtain gun licenses.
It's actually not that easy, also its impossible for them to legally obtain the types of guns used in this shooting (automatic).
Oct 2, 2017 11:45am
Q

queencitybuckeye

Senior Member

7,117 posts
Oct 2, 2017 11:47 AM
ptown_trojans_1;1874478 wrote:
On a larger point, from a public policy point of view, the fact the Government can do nothing to prevent the loss of life of 50 plus people is a little disconcerting.
As bad as today's event is, the powers the government would have to have to be able to do so is far worse.
Oct 2, 2017 11:47am
J

jmog

Senior Member

6,567 posts
Oct 2, 2017 11:54 AM
salto;1874418 wrote:Please link for me where bump stops are illegal in Ohio. I tried searching but can not find the answer.
Want proof you don't know what you are talking about?

They are not called Bump Stops, they are called Bump Stocks.

I personally believe Bump Stocks for AR-15s should be illegal and I am a pro-2nd amendment guy, but you obviously have no clue what you are talking about.
Oct 2, 2017 11:54am
T

thavoice

Senior Member

14,376 posts
Oct 2, 2017 11:58 AM
queencitybuckeye;1874481 wrote:As bad as today's event is, the powers the government would have to have to be able to do so is far worse.
Exactly, They would have to forceably take millions of weapons in a sweep of every domicile and shed and any hiding spot.

Not happening.

Even cutting off all manufacturing and purchasing of weapons and offering insane buyback amounts won't get gunsout od the hands of many Americans
Oct 2, 2017 11:58am
J

jmog

Senior Member

6,567 posts
Oct 2, 2017 11:59 AM
queencitybuckeye;1874452 wrote:Yeah, I haven't seen a good 3rd amendment case in ages. The rest of the "top 10" appear to be pretty solid for anyone who cares about rights at all.
If WW2 had ever made it to the mainland here in the US you may have seen it, but yeah, you are correct.
Oct 2, 2017 11:59am
Q

queencitybuckeye

Senior Member

7,117 posts
Oct 2, 2017 12:04 PM
thavoice;1874484 wrote:Exactly, They would have to forceably take millions of weapons in a sweep of every domicile and shed and any hiding spot.

Not happening.

Even cutting off all manufacturing and purchasing of weapons and offering insane buyback amounts won't get gunsout od the hands of many Americans
In the age of 3D printing, "rolling your own" wouldn't be especially tough. Perhaps we should look at root causes as opposed to the tools used for the violence.
Oct 2, 2017 12:04pm
Dr Winston O'Boogie's avatar

Dr Winston O'Boogie

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1,799 posts
Oct 2, 2017 12:21 PM
All of the gun laws on the books are not doing anything to stop these shootings. If you compare the US to other western countries, we have by far the highest level of gun violence. We also don't have anything close to the restrictions on gun ownership of these other countries. Homogeneous population, GDP, and all other differences - I'm sorry but these have become mere excuses for us not to change our gun loving culture.
Oct 2, 2017 12:21pm
Q

queencitybuckeye

Senior Member

7,117 posts
Oct 2, 2017 12:25 PM
Dr Winston O'Boogie;1874487 wrote:All of the gun laws on the books are not doing anything to stop these shootings. If you compare the US to other western countries, we have by far the highest level of gun violence. We also don't have anything close to the restrictions on gun ownership of these other countries. Homogeneous population, GDP, and all other differences - I'm sorry but these have become mere excuses for us not to change our gun loving culture.
Solution?
Oct 2, 2017 12:25pm
iclfan2's avatar

iclfan2

Reppin' the 330/216/843

6,360 posts
Oct 2, 2017 12:37 PM
queencitybuckeye;1874387 wrote:Until we find out that the fully-automatic weapons this POS had were legally-owned (I'd give 20-1 that they are not), anyone who goes on the air and uses the term "common sense gun control" (and they will) is gleefully dancing on the graves of the victims.
I haven't read through this thread yet, but check out hillary posting on twitter. She is a fucking idiot.

Also, like others have said, the law argument is hilarious since murdering people is illegal. Lawbreakers don't care about laws anyway.
Oct 2, 2017 12:37pm
Q

queencitybuckeye

Senior Member

7,117 posts
Oct 2, 2017 12:40 PM
iclfan2;1874492 wrote:I haven't read through this thread yet, but check out hillary posting on twitter. He is a fucking idiot.
Can't let a tragedy go to waste, or even wait until the pertinent facts are in.
Oct 2, 2017 12:40pm
iclfan2's avatar

iclfan2

Reppin' the 330/216/843

6,360 posts
Oct 2, 2017 12:45 PM
queencitybuckeye;1874493 wrote:Can't let a tragedy go to waste, or even wait until the pertinent facts are in.
She tried saying a silencer would have made it worse, bc she watches movie where silencers make things silent when in actuality it is still loud as hell.
Oct 2, 2017 12:45pm
like_that's avatar

like_that

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26,625 posts
Oct 2, 2017 12:51 PM
iclfan2;1874494 wrote:She tried saying a silencer would have made it worse, bc she watches movie where silencers make things silent when in actuality it is still loud as hell.
I lol'd at the fact she politicized the tragedy, and no less than two minutes she posts that we need to set politics aside.
Oct 2, 2017 12:51pm
ptown_trojans_1's avatar

ptown_trojans_1

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7,632 posts
Oct 2, 2017 12:59 PM
queencitybuckeye;1874479 wrote:How can it until we at least wait to see if all existing gun laws were obeyed? If they were, then have the conversation. If not, how would more laws be helpful?
True.
That is a good debate, but it doesn't matter because if Newtown didn't change anything for new or existing laws, this won't.
queencitybuckeye;1874481 wrote:As bad as today's event is, the powers the government would have to have to be able to do so is far worse.
True. Still, kind of hard as a policy maker to say, welp, there is really nothing we can do to stop these event. We are just willing to live in a world where this happens. Just odd as we don't accept other problems like that.

like_that;1874495 wrote:I lol'd at the fact she politicized the tragedy, and no less than two minutes she posts that we need to set politics aside.
Yeah, that was a not a surprise. Again, if the shooter had a middle eastern name, you know Trump and a lot of the R's would be all over it for their own gain.
Oct 2, 2017 12:59pm
K

kizer permanente

Senior Member

667 posts
Oct 2, 2017 1:17 PM
Twitter today

"Gunman kills 57 people"
...
Yeah, but who did he vote for?

I hate this shit so much lol
Oct 2, 2017 1:17pm
Dr Winston O'Boogie's avatar

Dr Winston O'Boogie

Senior Member

1,799 posts
Oct 2, 2017 1:17 PM
queencitybuckeye;1874488 wrote:Solution?
For starters, we should closely study the evolution of gun control in Australia. I would guess this has been mentioned on this forum in the past. But there you have a heterogeneous society that took extreme measures to pass regulations on ownership and use, along with amnesties and other programs to collect guns in circulation. Maybe that could serve as a model or at least a starting point for us.
Oct 2, 2017 1:17pm
Q

QuakerOats

Senior Member

8,740 posts
Oct 2, 2017 1:27 PM
ptown_trojans_1;1874478 wrote:On a larger point, from a public policy point of view, the fact the Government can do nothing to prevent the loss of life of 50 plus people is a little disconcerting.

Interesting; some want more government, when more God is the solution.
Oct 2, 2017 1:27pm