Commander of Awesome;1645646 wrote:https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/08/19/johnny-manziel-in-focus/

Looks like manziel played like shit

I don't think any of us needed PFF to confirm that, unless you're Chuck Booms or Iggy. LOL

shook_17;1645634 wrote:Honestly you give Hoyer the nod weeks 1-3. If we start 1-2 or 0-3 you start Manziel after the bye week. It gives him another month or so to get comfortable with the offense and being in the pocket.

This.


I think the thing to do is just give Hoyer the job initially...you know he can handle a NFL game....and see how the season plays out. Sooner or later JFF gets his chance, ...in the meantime he can learn the NFL game.

Even Bernie started his first season as the backup....I haven't seen enough out of Manziel that warrants giving him the #1 position.

yeah it was pretty obvious last night. Hoyer and Manziel both sucked ass. But they need to just name Hoyer the starter so we atleast have a chance come week one. Because right now, we are going to get bitch slapped the way we looked last night.


I lol'd last night after the game. Saw a mock draft for 2015 already and it had the Browns picking twice in the top 10. The first pick was a RT to replace Swartz and and Safety out of Alabama. NO way we take a safety in the top 10.

EDIT:

Or do you name Manziel the starter since he is the future and Hoyer looks lost out there as well?

That what Zack Johnson said on twitter/

shook_17;1645634 wrote:Honestly you give Hoyer the nod weeks 1-3. If we start 1-2 or 0-3 you start Manziel after the bye week. It gives him another month or so to get comfortable with the offense and being in the pocket.

I can buy this, let Hoyer start until the bye week, if we are doing well keep him in, if we are struggling give Manziel the ball.

I didn't want Manziel - I thought he was an overrated college QB who was too small for the NFL. Then after his last college season, he turned me into a believer and I got caught up in all the 'Johnny Mania'. After how he partied all preseason (I know... nothing different than he ever did before)... after seeing just how small he truly is out there... after seeing how he's letting people get into his head (which clearly the middle-finger gesture illustrates)... I'm already ready to say that Johnny WON'T be 'the guy'. I think the BIGGER problem is... after this preseason, I'm already convinced that Mike Pettine isn't the guy either (and you can't have a QB guy if you don't have a Head Coach guy). I think Pettine has handled this whole QB situation poorly. He should have came out IMMEDIATELY and declared Hoyer (or Manziel) the starter, and it would have put all of this shenanigans to bed ages ago. Instead, he fostered this maelstrom by perpetuating a QB competition; and all that's given us is not one but TWO unprepared quarterbacks. I'm sorry, but as an NFL QB, you can't be 'splitting the snaps', especially when you're as inexperienced as both of these two knuckleheads are. I think Pettine should have come out right away and declared Hoyer as the starter. Sit Johnny... let Johnny watch/develop. Johnny didn't have to be opening day starter, as the Browns weren't going anywhere this season (8-8 at BEST). If things started sinking with Hoyer, then Pettine could have brought Manziel in during the season. But it's obvious that Manziel is the QB of the future (for better or for worse), and if you start Manziel Game 1, then you've essentially ended Hoyer's career as a Brown, because there's NO WAY you can go BACK to Hoyer if Manziel struggles. Manziel's the future; not Hoyer.


So... while I think Johnny is part of the problem, I guess what I'm really trying to say is I think Mike Pettine has been the BIGGER part of the problem... and as a Browns fan, it pains me to say/come-to-that-realization because that just means that the Browns are AT LEAST another 3-5 years away from making the Playoffs (as I don't believe they can do it under Pettine if Pettine isn't "the guy", and you have to figure any new Head Coach that takes over is going to 'start from scratch' and have to rebuild - which essentially is another a year or two). None of this should come as a surprise tho... I mean, let's remember... Pettine WAS the Browns, what, 5th choice?!


Smh...

Scarlet_Buckeye;1645673 wrote:I didn't want Manziel - I thought he was an overrated college QB who was too small for the NFL. Then after his last college season, he turned me into a believer and I got caught up in all the 'Johnny Mania'. After how he partied all preseason (I know... nothing different than he ever did before)... after seeing just how small he truly is out there... after seeing how he's letting people get into his head (which clearly the middle-finger gesture illustrates)... I'm already ready to say that Johnny WON'T be 'the guy'. I think the BIGGER problem is... after this preseason, I'm already convinced that Mike Pettine isn't the guy either (and you can't have a QB guy if you don't have a Head Coach guy). I think Pettine has handled this whole QB situation poorly. He should have came out IMMEDIATELY and declared Hoyer (or Manziel) the starter, and it would have put all of this shenanigans to bed ages ago. Instead, he fostered this maelstrom by perpetuating a QB competition; and all that's given us is not one but TWO unprepared quarterbacks. I'm sorry, but as an NFL QB, you can't be 'splitting the snaps', especially when you're as inexperienced as both of these two knuckleheads are. I think Pettine should have come out right away and declared Hoyer as the starter. Sit Johnny... let Johnny watch/develop. Johnny didn't have to be opening day starter, as the Browns weren't going anywhere this season (8-8 at BEST). If things started sinking with Hoyer, then Pettine could have brought Manziel in during the season. But it's obvious that Manziel is the QB of the future (for better or for worse), and if you start Manziel Game 1, then you've essentially ended Hoyer's career as a Brown, because there's NO WAY you can go BACK to Hoyer if Manziel struggles. Manziel's the future; not Hoyer.


So... while I think Johnny is part of the problem, I guess what I'm really trying to say is I think Mike Pettine has been the BIGGER part of the problem... and as a Browns fan, it pains me to say/come-to-that-realization because that just means that the Browns are AT LEAST another 3-5 years away from making the Playoffs (as I don't believe they can do it under Pettine if Pettine isn't "the guy", and you have to figure any new Head Coach that takes over is going to 'start from scratch' and have to rebuild - which essentially is another a year or two). None of this should come as a surprise tho... I mean, let's remember... Pettine WAS the Browns, what, 5th choice?!


Smh...

The browns haven't even played in the third preseason game and you are not just writing off our rookie QB, but also our coach. You're a fucking idiot.

shook_17;1645665 wrote: Or do you name Manziel the starter since he is the future and Hoyer looks lost out there as well?

That what Zack Johnson said on twitter/

I'd say "no." I want to see Manziel out there as he's supposed to be the future but he's absolutely clueless. Hoyer is a career journeyman but I'm questioning whether he's pressing because he sees JFF over his shoulder. If he's truly your future, let Hoyer start and take the beatings until the bye week.

If Pettine is smart, he names Hoyer the starter TODAY so they can get him ready for the 3rd preseason game. The thing that is most concerning about Hoyer though is that, for the most part, he's received the reps with the 1's at TC about 2/3rd's of the time and we're seeing this?

What if this happens.. Pettine starts Manziel for the dress reheresal game against the Rams. Manziel does good they name him the starter or if he blows it you start Hoyer? Just thinking out loud here.

shook_17;1645702 wrote:What if this happens.. Pettine starts Manziel for the dress reheresal game against the Rams. Manziel does good they name him the starter or if he blows it you start Hoyer? Just thinking out loud here.

Just start Hoyer. No need to play games, manziel is not ready.

I'll be surprised if JFF starts against the Rams.

You guys will get a chuckle out of this....apparently, MKC turned in a story to the Plain Dealer last night that had the Browns 23-17 winners....LOL

Mary Kay
Cabot @MaryKayCabot · 29s
Late game heroics by Byner. Browns stun Broncos. Super Bowl, here
we come!

Scarlet_Buckeye;1645673 wrote:I didn't want Manziel - I thought he was an overrated college QB who was too small for the NFL. Then after his last college season, he turned me into a believer and I got caught up in all the 'Johnny Mania'. After how he partied all preseason (I know... nothing different than he ever did before)... after seeing just how small he truly is out there... after seeing how he's letting people get into his head (which clearly the middle-finger gesture illustrates)... I'm already ready to say that Johnny WON'T be 'the guy'. I think the BIGGER problem is... after this preseason, I'm already convinced that Mike Pettine isn't the guy either (and you can't have a QB guy if you don't have a Head Coach guy). I think Pettine has handled this whole QB situation poorly. He should have came out IMMEDIATELY and declared Hoyer (or Manziel) the starter, and it would have put all of this shenanigans to bed ages ago. Instead, he fostered this maelstrom by perpetuating a QB competition; and all that's given us is not one but TWO unprepared quarterbacks. I'm sorry, but as an NFL QB, you can't be 'splitting the snaps', especially when you're as inexperienced as both of these two knuckleheads are. I think Pettine should have come out right away and declared Hoyer as the starter. Sit Johnny... let Johnny watch/develop. Johnny didn't have to be opening day starter, as the Browns weren't going anywhere this season (8-8 at BEST). If things started sinking with Hoyer, then Pettine could have brought Manziel in during the season. But it's obvious that Manziel is the QB of the future (for better or for worse), and if you start Manziel Game 1, then you've essentially ended Hoyer's career as a Brown, because there's NO WAY you can go BACK to Hoyer if Manziel struggles. Manziel's the future; not Hoyer.


So... while I think Johnny is part of the problem, I guess what I'm really trying to say is I think Mike Pettine has been the BIGGER part of the problem... and as a Browns fan, it pains me to say/come-to-that-realization because that just means that the Browns are AT LEAST another 3-5 years away from making the Playoffs (as I don't believe they can do it under Pettine if Pettine isn't "the guy", and you have to figure any new Head Coach that takes over is going to 'start from scratch' and have to rebuild - which essentially is another a year or two). None of this should come as a surprise tho... I mean, let's remember... Pettine WAS the Browns, what, 5th choice?!


Smh...

Tl;Dr

Actually, Hoyer has run with the 1's exclusively for 12 out of 16 practices. He should look a bit better than he has.

like_that;1645703 wrote:Just start Hoyer. No need to play games, manziel is not ready.

Manziel is "more ready" than Hoyer based on numbers alone. 78 rating vs. 44. Manziel also had 2 or 3 drops last night including a 4th and 3 pass conversion right on the money....dropped.The 3 or 4 poor throws were a direct result of high defensive pressure. Not saying he had a good performance, but was miles ahead of the shit Hoyer slung against the wall.

BR1986FB;1645686 wrote:I'd say "no." I want to see Manziel out there as he's supposed to be the future but he's absolutely clueless. Hoyer is a career journeyman but I'm questioning whether he's pressing because he sees JFF over his shoulder. If he's truly your future, let Hoyer start and take the beatings until the bye week.If Pettine is smart, he names Hoyer the starter TODAY so they can get him ready for the 3rd preseason game. The thing that is most concerning about Hoyer though is that, for the most part, he's received the reps with the 1's at TC about 2/3rd's of the time and we're seeing this?

SMFH.

Footwedge;1645838 wrote: Not saying he had a good performance, but

No buts, he was brutal. Comparing shit to shit doesn't cut it. No one "won" anything.

I'm open to opinions, but someone please elaborate on this "sit Johnny til the bye week" logic. Is it because you don't want to "throw him to the wolves"? Sorry, the Steel Curtain is a shell of its former self. Looking at overall D, New Orleans is surprisingly ranked 4th and has a pretty solid D backfield. Ravens D has dropped off as well. Or do you want him to get more reps before he is ready? Not sure going against 2nd team an extra 3 weeks will help much.

Not agreeing or disagreeing, just trying to understand the logic.

Footwedge;1645838 wrote:Manziel is "more ready" than Hoyer based on numbers alone. 78 rating vs. 44. Manziel also had 2 or 3 drops last night including a 4th and 3 pass conversion right on the money....dropped.The 3 or 4 poor throws were a direct result of high defensive pressure. Not saying he had a good performance, but was miles ahead of the shit Hoyer slung against the wall.

Miles ahead? lol

I'm going with start Hoyer based on last year, knowledge of the playbook, and not looking like he shat pants as soon as he drops back. I think Manziel will come along, but throwing him in there week one AT PITTSBURGH could spell disaster.

I would Start Hoyer and if he sucks or the Browns start 0-3 then change to Manziel. The logic I would use is if Manziel sucks it's going to be a lot harder to bench him and go back to Hoyer then vice versa.

If we can agree that Hoyer & Manziel look equally shitty or Manziel has looked slightly less shitty, what is the rationale behind starting the guy with less potential to improve?

We don't really know that Hoyer doesn't have a potential to improve. We do know that JFF has never taken a snap in a regular NFL game and is obviously and admittedly 'still learning'. we also know that Hoyer has won a few NFL games, and looked pretty good last year before getting hurt.

As I had mentioned earlier, even Bernie Kosar started his rookie season as the #2 guy...getting his first start in the 6th game after Danielson got hurt. With the Browns going nowhere this year, it wouldn't hurt to have Manziel watch and learn during some real NFL games, and there will be opportunities to get him in as the season progresses.

Scarlet_Buckeye;1645673 wrote:I didn't want Manziel - I thought he was an overrated college QB who was too small for the NFL. Then after his last college season, he turned me into a believer and I got caught up in all the 'Johnny Mania'. After how he partied all preseason (I know... nothing different than he ever did before)... after seeing just how small he truly is out there... after seeing how he's letting people get into his head (which clearly the middle-finger gesture illustrates)... I'm already ready to say that Johnny WON'T be 'the guy'. I think the BIGGER problem is... after this preseason, I'm already convinced that Mike Pettine isn't the guy either (and you can't have a QB guy if you don't have a Head Coach guy). I think Pettine has handled this whole QB situation poorly. He should have came out IMMEDIATELY and declared Hoyer (or Manziel) the starter, and it would have put all of this shenanigans to bed ages ago. Instead, he fostered this maelstrom by perpetuating a QB competition; and all that's given us is not one but TWO unprepared quarterbacks. I'm sorry, but as an NFL QB, you can't be 'splitting the snaps', especially when you're as inexperienced as both of these two knuckleheads are. I think Pettine should have come out right away and declared Hoyer as the starter. Sit Johnny... let Johnny watch/develop. Johnny didn't have to be opening day starter, as the Browns weren't going anywhere this season (8-8 at BEST). If things started sinking with Hoyer, then Pettine could have brought Manziel in during the season. But it's obvious that Manziel is the QB of the future (for better or for worse), and if you start Manziel Game 1, then you've essentially ended Hoyer's career as a Brown, because there's NO WAY you can go BACK to Hoyer if Manziel struggles. Manziel's the future; not Hoyer.


So... while I think Johnny is part of the problem, I guess what I'm really trying to say is I think Mike Pettine has been the BIGGER part of the problem... and as a Browns fan, it pains me to say/come-to-that-realization because that just means that the Browns are AT LEAST another 3-5 years away from making the Playoffs (as I don't believe they can do it under Pettine if Pettine isn't "the guy", and you have to figure any new Head Coach that takes over is going to 'start from scratch' and have to rebuild - which essentially is another a year or two). None of this should come as a surprise tho... I mean, let's remember... Pettine WAS the Browns, what, 5th choice?!


Smh...

You are a fucking moron scarlet. It's the PRESEASON.

HelloAgain;1645863 wrote:If we can agree that Hoyer & Manziel look equally shitty or Manziel has looked slightly less shitty, what is the rationale behind starting the guy with less potential to improve?

For all we know, Manziel could be a huge fucking bust and Hoyer could be decent.

The only thing we DO know, is that Hoyer played well last year. Based off that, I'd go with Hoyer until Manziel shows the coaches in practice that he is light years ahead of Hoyer.

This team isn't winning shit this year.

We have 2 first rounders next year which figure to be high, so it is imperative that they figure out if Johnny can play or not this year.

Just throw him out there and he is either going to sink or swim. That is all there is to it.

You'll be able to tell by the end of the season whether he is a viable long term answer or not, and if not then you start looking at Marriota/Hundley/Winston and all the others that figure to be in the mix for the top QB available.

Hoyer is going to be 29 years old in 2 months and is at his peak right now physically. He has no future with this team. If we had playoff aspirations it would be one thing, but this team is going no where and the most important thing is to figure out if we need to be in the market for a QB at the top of the next draft.

The league is going to be looking to beat the hell out of Johnny whether he starts week 1 or week 4, so just let him get out there and see what he can do.

The reality is neither guy is ready, which is why you go with the guy that is 8 years younger who you used a #1 pick on and possibly has a future with the team.

Rookie QB's have been playing from the get go of late and if he is special he will swim by years end after taking his lumps early.

No amount of watching from the sidelines replicates live action, so he isn't going to be anymore ready week 4 than week 1 as he will still be lining up against a defense that wants to rip his head off because he's JFF.

Let's stop wasting time and get down to business.

queencitybuckeye;1645841 wrote:No buts, he was brutal. Comparing shit to shit doesn't cut it. No one "won" anything.

a 78 qb rating is not brutal...factor in 3 passes on the money that were dropped, then the performance isn't all that bad...especially for a raw rookie who had very little pass protection.