maddog140;1399943 wrote:Dusty, you seem to have a finger on Scioto. Why is it they are losing kids? Between kids quitting and transfering Scioto seems to be taking a hit. Being a former coach that spent time in trying to build that program up and leaving it with a stable of kids and a Little Irish program that was flurishing along with a MS program that was on a tear it seems to me that things are going backwards????

I don't have a kid in the room, so I can only go with what I hear from knowledgable sources (wouldn't repeat here if I didn't trust the sources), that there is just a general lack of technical knowledge (and humility) in the wrestling room. Bad combo. Combine that with an Administration that isn't always committed to being successful and it is a bad cocktail. Scioto has put at least one wrestler at State every year since it opened in '95, a great streak that is probably in jeopardy now.

That being said, some of the kids will quit, some will transfer. I have mad respect for those who will remain and gut it out. There is a core of really good families, and kids, over there who will gut it out. I have tremendous respect for those kids. Wrestling is a tough sport under the best circumstances. Sweating it out in a hostile room and repeatedly losing dual meets and tournaments without quitting will build character in those who remain.

Dad4Sports;1400234 wrote:Agree.....the Aces program has progressed where maybe it's time to take that step to upgrade the schedule. Sure, they will hit some bumps along the way. But in the long run, the results will be positive. Just look at the model Marysville has shown us....

I would love to Coach Spires & Coach Brison get together and let these boys train together even during the season. Amanda is good enough that it would help Lancaster having amanda boys on the matts with you and I'm certain amanda would benefit as well. The nice thing about this arrangement, there's no holding back or hiding anything because you will never see eachother unless you meet in an invitational, and lets be honest that would only be a good thing for both.

Gale_force;1400390 wrote:I would love to Coach Spires & Coach Brison get together and let these boys train together even during the season. Amanda is good enough that it would help Lancaster having amanda boys on the matts with you and I'm certain amanda would benefit as well. The nice thing about this arrangement, there's no holding back or hiding anything because you will never see eachother unless you meet in an invitational, and lets be honest that would only be a good thing for both.

Just be careful of the OHSAA scrimmage rules......

Dad4Sports;1400568 wrote:Just be careful of the OHSAA scrimmage rules......

well, that brings up a good point that I never knew to be honest...I would figure a dual format would be considered a scrimmage, but you are probably right, training in the same room may also constitute a scrimmage... That stinks if that is true though, because I would love to see more of the county schools and Lancaster practice together....

you would probably have to set it up like a "Open Mat" Time after practices or on Sunday...Which stinks...

i think you can do a couple before you get docked points, which no one would want. the limitations are lifted to some degree in post season, i believe. Anyway, whatever the rules are, they're pretty clear in the rulebook... i just don't remember them exactly.. lol

Here is how it is listed on the OHSAA website.....

1.3) Practice — Practice is instruction given by a school coach to his/her team during the
OHSAA-defined wrestling season. Practice sessions which involve wrestlers from
other schools are scrimmages.


1.4) Scrimmage — Any practice or workout between two or more teams is a scrimmage.
Multiple team scrimmages shall count as one scrimmage, however, the time limit
is three hours. Any facilities opened by school personnel during the season where
teams/individuals meet to wrestle shall constitute a scrimmage.


1.41) High schools (Varsity, Junior Varsity, Freshman) — Four scrimmages permitted. Three hour time limit for all scrimmages.
Individual wrestlers that will enter the Sectional Tournament from a school
that does not have enough wrestlers to schedule or participate in dual meets
may practice or work out with other school teams or individuals during the
regular season. Such situations shall be reported in writing to the Commissioner’s Office.
After the conclusion of the Sectional Wrestling Tournament, wrestlers who
qualify for further competition may &#8220ractice” with wrestlers from other
schools who are similarly qualified.


Any team or individual that exceeds the maximum number of contests
(games, matches, meets, scrimmages) may be denied the right to participate
in the OHSAA Wrestling Tournament during the year the violation occurs.

Nothing said about a group of wrestlers getting together outside of school facilities. Quite a few of those around the state.
None around LA or AC that I know of.

nykc;1399672 wrote:Joseph Terry is going to be tough - I don't want to take anything away from the kid.
Ackley's shoulder was hurt during the Fluty match and he decided to go on because he didn't want to end his season, it was a mistake on Ackley's part and he shouldn't of continued. I look to see Terry as a competitor for the next 3 years.

It will probably come down to Wimer, Rahmani if theu kee the weight down and avoid hitting a growth spurt, Terry, Stratton, whoever comes up to 120 from the lower weights.

well one thing is for sure is that Terry WILL NOT be at 120 next year! Kids only a freshman and they grow like wildflowers, already starting to lift again. Expect him to make a pretty big jump weight wise either this offseason or next just like his teammate yarger did, going from 132 to 152 last year.

Any other going to be freshman next year going to make some noise at Darby next year?

Dust_E_Roads;1399911 wrote:Dom Demas, soon-to-be of Coffman will make some noise at 138 to 145. He'll be a multi-state guy for sure. Sad for Scioto that they are losing another (McHigh to Liberty this year and Demas to Coffman next year). Those two could have brought back the days of Languis & Gordon to Hard Road, but doesn't look like it is going to happen. A real shame.

Not doubting this kids ability at all, but it seems to be harder to have success in the middle weights as a freshman than at a lower weight. The kids in the middle to upper weights are more mature, stronger, and older in general. I've seen him wrestle a few times before and believe that he can do big things. Not saying he can't make some noise next year, but will be tougher than say if he was at a weight below 126.

pinem07;1401447 wrote:Not doubting this kids ability at all, but it seems to be harder to have success in the middle weights as a freshman than at a lower weight. The kids in the middle to upper weights are more mature, stronger, and older in general. I've seen him wrestle a few times before and believe that he can do big things. Not saying he can't make some noise next year, but will be tougher than say if he was at a weight below 126.

lots of folks didn't think the MV hinkle kid would do much at 138 and 132, but he looked great all year and turned it on at Darby. i would keep an eye on demas

bump_and_run;1401484 wrote:lots of folks didn't think the MV hinkle kid would do much at 138 and 132, but he looked great all year and turned it on at Darby. i would keep an eye on demas

I would keep BOTH eyes on him!

I know hamilton Twp. has some open mats, or atleast used to and at times, there was some really good turnout with some top notch area wrestlers showing up.

Gale_force;1401513 wrote:I know hamilton Twp. has some open mats, or atleast used to and at times, there was some really good turnout with some top notch area wrestlers showing up.

Those were good days with some great wrestlers. :thumbup:

pinem & bump -- Agree on both counts. The middies (132 to 160) are definitely tough classes for frosh. (that's one of the reasons I qualified my statement with "multi-state" rather than 4x state). I also agree with the Hinkle assessment. I was one of the ones on this board who doubted the bluster when a poster on here talked of Hinkle making state at that weight. Well, he proved me wrong, I'm not ashamed to say.

bump_and_run;1401484 wrote:lots of folks didn't think the MV hinkle kid would do much at 138 and 132, but he looked great all year and turned it on at Darby. i would keep an eye on demas

Good point bump and run.

pinem07;1401447 wrote:Not doubting this kids ability at all, but it seems to be harder to have success in the middle weights as a freshman than at a lower weight. The kids in the middle to upper weights are more mature, stronger, and older in general. I've seen him wrestle a few times before and believe that he can do big things. Not saying he can't make some noise next year, but will be tougher than say if he was at a weight below 126.

Unfortunately for central ohio this is not so much the case. Our lower weights do superior at states while our middle to upper weights have not had near as much success the past few years. Just becuase they are bigger and stronger does not make them better. It would be smart for anyone to get as high in weight as possible. Get away from all the little studs and wrestle where the talent is a little more diluted. There are still some tough kids at these weights, but not near as condensed as 106-126.

Maverick15;1401591 wrote:Unfortunately for central ohio this is not so much the case. Our lower weights do superior at states while our middle to upper weights have not had near as much success the past few years. Just becuase they are bigger and stronger does not make them better. It would be smart for anyone to get as high in weight as possible. Get away from all the little studs and wrestle where the talent is a little more diluted. There are still some tough kids at these weights, but not near as condensed as 106-126.

very simple yet astute analysis mr maverick. unfortuntaely for those of us who have one who couldn't touch 106 on a fat day i don't think there's enough big mac in the county lol

Maverick15;1401591 wrote:Unfortunately for central ohio this is not so much the case. Our lower weights do superior at states while our middle to upper weights have not had near as much success the past few years. Just becuase they are bigger and stronger does not make them better. It would be smart for anyone to get as high in weight as possible. Get away from all the little studs and wrestle where the talent is a little more diluted. There are still some tough kids at these weights, but not near as condensed as 106-126.

100% correct. As I posted above, HD D1 had 23 state placers, of which 12 were in the first 4 weights, and only 11 in the other 10 weights. Arguably could have been more in the light weights, with Wimer and Nace. Top 5 weights had only 4 total HD placers. With almost all of them back, look for similar competition to qualify in the light weights again in 2014. If you are a big 113 or 120 or 126, your best bet is to get up to 132, 138, etc. ASAP.

MPhillips;1401526 wrote:Those were good days with some great wrestlers. :thumbup:

So not anymore?

Dust_E_Roads;1401563 wrote:pinem & bump -- Agree on both counts. The middies (132 to 160) are definitely tough classes for frosh. (that's one of the reasons I qualified my statement with "multi-state" rather than 4x state). I also agree with the Hinkle assessment. I was one of the ones on this board who doubted the bluster when a poster on here talked of Hinkle making state at that weight. Well, he proved me wrong, I'm not ashamed to say.

Gratz to the kid for making it out to State!
He is the real deal and will be special. I was real impressed by what i saw of him the first time at Sectional. Great mat wrestler.
I do still disagree with the poster who put that out tho..."will be ROLLING to State!"
Unnecessary post putting a target on a young kid like that. Made it seem like it would be a cake walk.

Some interesting dynamics shock up the middle weights at Darby and need to be examined a bit more closely before we can just right them off because of what happened at State.
132 138 and 145 became a little more tame in the end at Darby because of injury, funk, cutting and dqs. 138 was arguable the toughest weight and kids bumped and dropped to avoid.
With Alexanders meltdown and Drew McD being less than 100% it hurt our chances of multiple placers at state(138 was arguably the toughest weight at State and we did come away with a Champion!).
Bobby Smith cutting down out of the 145 class did weaken it(he prolly is a low placer there compared to a finalist at 126). Im still puzzled about Staten, i thought he had a shot at low end placement there. We still had a finalist and only one 2 and out at this weight). 152 was prolly the surprise weight class at Darby. With no returning state experience I dont think anyone predicted Darby placing one let alone getting 2 SPs! 160 held there own with 2 SPs(is 60 considered middle weight?)
Finally at 132 Kasee McD(3rd) is a hair away from being in the Finals. It also was very much weakened by the injuries to Wison and Donatelli and the scratch of Sepata at District level didnt help either.
The lightweights performed great for us at State!
The middleweights held their own and did well considering the issues outlined above.

What continues to kill the DD are the upper weights.
170 1 (5th) Waker was actually VERY close to winning it)
182 0
195 1 (5th)
220 1(7th)
Hvy (Champ helps big but a D2 transfer in)

The Central Ohio football coaching culture is killing us!!!!!!!!
The 4 placers from 170 on play or played football.
Look at Moeller and their big guys and State football champs(coincidence?)
Until this changes we will continue to have bad #s at State. Adding the extra big guys weight last yr didnt help us either!

Speaking as a wrestling AND football (D coordinator/former HC) coach, I don't understand the philosophy of football coaches who advise (outwardly or covertly) their players not to wrestle...makes no sense!...everything you learn wrestling enhances your football ability!! I also suggest running/jumping/throwing for the track & field team (I also coach track! )! This era of specificity or only playing one sport is ridiculous and it's perpetuated mainly by ignorant coaches!! :thumbdown:

It is what it is;1402550 wrote:Speaking as a wrestling AND football (D coordinator/former HC) coach, I don't understand the philosophy of football coaches who advise (outwardly or covertly) their players not to wrestling...makes no sense!...everything you learn wrestling enhances your football ability!! I also suggest running/jumping/throwing for the track & field team (I also coach track! )! This era of specificity or only playing one sport is ridiculous and it's perpetuated mainly by ignorant coaches!! :thumbdown:

Consider us the choir, brother. And AMEN!!!!!!!

The worst I will do is ask a kid to consider the issues. A kid that can barely hold a bat correctly, let alone swing one, and has a tough time with a curve ball - but who was a district place winner in wrestling - might want to consider his options. Ride the pine in baseball, or make strides in wrestling? The choice is ALWAYS theirs, and should they consider to participate in another sport (in this example baseball), then let's do it. Get me a schedule so I can attend a game or two and support him!

Same with track, football, or any other sport I'm missing.

Doesn't like half of Davidson's football team Wrestle?

I am a believer in multi-sports. Mine actually played 3