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Disgusted with obama administration - Part II

Home ▸ Archive ▸ Politics ▸ Disgusted with obama administration - Part II
jhay78's avatar

jhay78

Senior Member

1,917 posts
Jan 10, 2013 3:59 PM
Will he say "Just kidding" after he takes the oath?
Jan 10, 2013 3:59pm
ptown_trojans_1's avatar

ptown_trojans_1

Moderator

7,632 posts
Jan 30, 2013 4:36 PM
Cough, thanks to Government slow down on defense spending thanks to the passing of the CR and no new funds, and and the feeling of sequestration.
General Dynamics lost like $2B last quarter.
Other factors where there too, but the impact of massive defense cuts, and no new funds for the Pentagon caused a negative impact.

And if Congress cannot come to an agreement by March 1 and those cuts come into play, it won't get any better.
Jan 30, 2013 4:36pm
Q

QuakerOats

Senior Member

8,740 posts
Jan 30, 2013 7:54 PM
ptown_trojans_1;1377853 wrote:Cough, thanks to Government slow down on defense spending thanks to the passing of the CR and no new funds, and and the feeling of sequestration.
General Dynamics lost like $2B last quarter.
Other factors where there too, but the impact of massive defense cuts, and no new funds for the Pentagon caused a negative impact.

And if Congress cannot come to an agreement by March 1 and those cuts come into play, it won't get any better.

Hilarious -- but I understand you can't bite the hand that feeds you.

Maybe if you got outside the beltway you might understand that 4 years of radical leftist policies has left us with a disastrous economic landscape. 4 years of continued assault on a capitalist economy by a marxist administration is taking its toll. But when you have blinders on, when you live with the leftists and central planners, when you are fed the line of bs by a complicit, liberal media, you become distant to the realities of the private sector, and those paying the freight.

Starting to feel sorry you, pal. Seems like a good one got away.
Jan 30, 2013 7:54pm
G

gut

Senior Member

15,058 posts
Jan 30, 2013 8:43 PM
The sequestration cuts didn't hit Q4, and even then they would be a fraction of the some $125B "hiccup" in Q4. 3% is close to a $500B annual pace, and the 2013 sequester cuts only total like $80B.

And so Obama blames Repubs for derailing a recovery that never happened, but that he nevertheless took credit for.
Jan 30, 2013 8:43pm
ptown_trojans_1's avatar

ptown_trojans_1

Moderator

7,632 posts
Jan 30, 2013 9:36 PM
QuakerOats;1377971 wrote:Hilarious -- but I understand you can't bite the hand that feeds you.

Maybe if you got outside the beltway you might understand that 4 years of radical leftist policies has left us with a disastrous economic landscape. 4 years of continued assault on a capitalist economy by a marxist administration is taking its toll. But when you have blinders on, when you live with the leftists and central planners, when you are fed the line of bs by a complicit, liberal media, you become distant to the realities of the private sector, and those paying the freight.

Starting to feel sorry you, pal. Seems like a good one got away.
Blinders like cuts in the DOD budget and lack of stability in the market, and lacks of funds due to a CR. Sure.
gut;1378007 wrote:The sequestration cuts didn't hit Q4, and even then they would be a fraction of the some $125B "hiccup" in Q4. 3% is close to a $500B annual pace, and the 2013 sequester cuts only total like $80B.

And so Obama blames Repubs for derailing a recovery that never happened, but that he nevertheless took credit for.
The cuts are not until March, and still impact this FY.
Also, the CR was just as bad, as funds that were supposed to be spent were not. So, awarded contracts were not started due to lack of funds. Plus, in prep for the cuts, several departments let contracts lapse, instead of awarding 5 task orders, only 3, or altered the way they awarded contracts (Instead of full and open competition they used a cheaper contract vehicle, saves money, but cuts profits.)
Add to that companies are shedding or not growing due to the lack of direction in the market.

It is not the cuts, it is the total lack of direction of what may happen. All the forecasts of what agencies are doing is thrown up in the air.

It is market chaos.
And add to that, furloughs and pay cuts are starting to come down the line.
Friends of mine at one of the intelligence agencies is due to get a 20% pay cut as well as furloughed for a month at a time.

Blame goes to all these idiots, from the White House to Congress.
This is a joke.
Jan 30, 2013 9:36pm
S

stlouiedipalma

Senior Member

1,797 posts
Jan 30, 2013 10:23 PM
QuakerOats;1377971 wrote:Hilarious -- but I understand you can't bite the hand that feeds you.

Maybe if you got outside the beltway you might understand that 4 years of radical leftist policies has left us with a disastrous economic landscape. 4 years of continued assault on a capitalist economy by a marxist administration is taking its toll. But when you have blinders on, when you live with the leftists and central planners, when you are fed the line of bs by a complicit, liberal media, you become distant to the realities of the private sector, and those paying the freight.

Starting to feel sorry you, pal. Seems like a good one got away.
Ha, ha. Quaker, that line of BS is simply hilarious. Do you get up in the morning with a raging hard-on just thinking about how you can rail against Obama? Your lack of objectivity is becoming a great comedy routine here. You guys have been playing the "chicken little" card for four years now. What will you do when the sky doesn't fall?
Jan 30, 2013 10:23pm
G

gut

Senior Member

15,058 posts
Jan 31, 2013 12:30 AM
ptown_trojans_1;1378040 wrote: The cuts are not until March, and still impact this FY.
How exactly do the loss of future revenues (a pittance at that) affect booked revenues? I've been in finance for years and would love to hear you explain that one.

Again, annual defense cuts do to sequestration average like $50M over the next 10 years (and a lot of this is more a freezing of growth than actual cuts). But a 3% GDP hit is almost $500B annually. Your explanation just doesn't fit.
Jan 31, 2013 12:30am
Cleveland Buck's avatar

Cleveland Buck

Troll Hunter

5,126 posts
Jan 31, 2013 12:33 AM
ptown_trojans_1;1377853 wrote:Cough, thanks to Government slow down on defense spending thanks to the passing of the CR and no new funds, and and the feeling of sequestration.
So a shrinking economy is not the problem, it's that the government didn't paper it over enough to hide it from you? Do some of you even think? The economy is not growing if you need government spending to prop it up. The economy hasn't grown since 1999.
Jan 31, 2013 12:33am
G

gut

Senior Member

15,058 posts
Jan 31, 2013 12:39 AM
Cleveland Buck;1378143 wrote:The economy hasn't grown since 1999.
I'd say about 2004. The subsequent growth in financial services being, quite literally, a temporary paper gain.
Jan 31, 2013 12:39am
M

Manhattan Buckeye

Senior Member

7,566 posts
Jan 31, 2013 2:39 AM
stlouiedipalma;1378076 wrote:Ha, ha. Quaker, that line of BS is simply hilarious. Do you get up in the morning with a raging hard-on just thinking about how you can rail against Obama? Your lack of objectivity is becoming a great comedy routine here. You guys have been playing the "chicken little" card for four years now. What will you do when the sky doesn't fall?
The sky isn't falling, but the next bubble to fall will be student loans:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/breaking/chi-half-of-student-loan-holders-defering-payments-20130130,0,1361885.story

Will be interesting to see what this administration does in the next four years. There is no way our young people will ever be able to pay this off.
Jan 31, 2013 2:39am
Q

QuakerOats

Senior Member

8,740 posts
Jan 31, 2013 9:58 AM
stlouiedipalma;1378076 wrote:Ha, ha. Quaker, that line of BS is simply hilarious. Do you get up in the morning with a raging hard-on just thinking about how you can rail against Obama? Your lack of objectivity is becoming a great comedy routine here. You guys have been playing the "chicken little" card for four years now. What will you do when the sky doesn't fall?
Seriously? You're also going to tell me that defense 'cuts' (funny, in and of itself) are the cause for economic contraction? Somebody beam me up.

We have a $16 trillion economy. Defense is what, $800 billion --- even if the entire budget was cut 5%, it would be a mere drop in the bucket to the overall economic landscape. And my guess is, if it is D.C. talking about cuts, then they are talking about cuts in increases, meaning instead of spending $850 billion next year, it might be $830 billion, i.e. no real cut at all.

Let's all get in the real game; the one where appointed liberal radical bureaucrats at NLRB, OHSA, EPA, MSHA, TSA, IRS, HHS, Interior, and on and on, are all doing there level best at making it more onerous to operate in this country. Then throw in the radical liberal, and disastrous, obamacare on top of all the other BS, and you have an assault on free enterprise unseen before in our nation's history. Most of us are LIVING IT EVERYDAY; some of you are not (apparently).

And yes, I wake up everday now pretty pissed ...... at what has occurred over the last 4 years, and at what will occur with 4 more years of these marxists. Some of us are trying to make widgets, employ people, and meet payrolls; we don't live in government fantasyland.

I suggest you get used to the rants, because I don't think they will ease up anytime soon.
Jan 31, 2013 9:58am
B

BoatShoes

Senior Member

5,703 posts
Jan 31, 2013 10:37 AM
QuakerOats;1378244 wrote:Seriously? You're also going to tell me that defense 'cuts' (funny, in and of itself) are the cause for economic contraction? Somebody beam me up.

We have a $16 trillion economy. Defense is what, $800 billion --- even if the entire budget was cut 5%, it would be a mere drop in the bucket to the overall economic landscape. And my guess is, if it is D.C. talking about cuts, then they are talking about cuts in increases, meaning instead of spending $850 billion next year, it might be $830 billion, i.e. no real cut at all.

Let's all get in the real game; the one where appointed liberal radical bureaucrats at NLRB, OHSA, EPA, MSHA, TSA, IRS, HHS, Interior, and on and on, are all doing there level best at making it more onerous to operate in this country. Then throw in the radical liberal, and disastrous, obamacare on top of all the other BS, and you have an assault on free enterprise unseen before in our nation's history. Most of us are LIVING IT EVERYDAY; some of you are not (apparently).

And yes, I wake up everday now pretty pissed ...... at what has occurred over the last 4 years, and at what will occur with 4 more years of these marxists. Some of us are trying to make widgets, employ people, and meet payrolls; we don't live in government fantasyland.

I suggest you get used to the rants, because I don't think they will ease up anytime soon.
Having a hard time dealing with the fact that austerity measures and a smaller deficit actually caused the economy to contract? Surprise, surprise, contractionary fiscal policies are contractionary!! Policies that reduce the deficit at the zero bound reduce gdp!! Why hasn't somebody been saying that for years??

Governement spending fell at a 6.6% annual rate anchored by a 22.2% decline in defense spending subtracting 1.33% points from the growth rate in the quarter. There was also a 40.3% decline in the rate of inventory accumulation which makes sense when a foreseeable contraction in aggregate demand from tax raises/spending cuts are on the horizon.


"U.S. Economy Shrinks on Government Cuts"
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324156204578273611039517142.html

Meanwhile, government spending, which has been a drag on growth for more than two years (<--Blatant editorializing that contradicts the reporting being done here that spending cuts contracted the economy but alas), declined for the ninth time in 10 quarters. The biggest cuts came in military spending, which tumbled at a rate of 22.2%, the largest drop since 1972
"Economy Shrinks as Federal Spending Cuts Trump Private Sector's Growth"
http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/2013/01/30/5a11e0ea-6afc-11e2-95b3-272d604a10a3_story.html

"U.S. Growth Halted as Federal Spending Fell in Fourth Quarter"
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/31/business/economy/us-economy-unexpectedly-contracted-in-fourth-quarter.html?_r=0

It will be fun when we get to see the reports about how there was a smaller deficit in the fourth quarter and that it caused gdp to shrink...just like we would expect.

Crying about the need for spending cuts and then blaming the expected and foreseeable contraction on Obama teh evil socialist :laugh:
Jan 31, 2013 10:37am
Cleveland Buck's avatar

Cleveland Buck

Troll Hunter

5,126 posts
Jan 31, 2013 10:52 AM
So where is the growth that four years of expansionary fiscal policies and massive deficits was supposed to stimulate? Or does the neo-Keynesian plan call for never ending printing, borrowing, and spending until the end of the time?
Jan 31, 2013 10:52am
Q

QuakerOats

Senior Member

8,740 posts
Jan 31, 2013 10:57 AM
Cleveland Buck;1378319 wrote:So where is the growth that four years of expansionary fiscal policies and massive deficits was supposed to stimulate? Or does the neo-Keynesian plan call for never ending printing, borrowing, and spending until the end of the time?

Toooooo funny. :laugh:



We didn't OVERspend nearly enough.

Sincerely,

Paul Krugman
Various other Keynesian morons
Jan 31, 2013 10:57am
Q

QuakerOats

Senior Member

8,740 posts
Jan 31, 2013 11:03 AM
BoatShoes;1378295 wrote:Having a hard time dealing with the fact that austerity measures and a smaller deficit actually caused the economy to contract? Surprise, surprise, contractionary fiscal policies are contractionary!! Policies that reduce the deficit at the zero bound reduce gdp!! Why hasn't somebody been saying that for years??

Governement spending fell at a 6.6% annual rate anchored by a 22.2% decline in defense spending subtracting 1.33% points from the growth rate in the quarter. There was also a 40.3% decline in the rate of inventory accumulation which makes sense when a foreseeable contraction in aggregate demand from tax raises/spending cuts are on the horizon.


"U.S. Economy Shrinks on Government Cuts"
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324156204578273611039517142.html




"Economy Shrinks as Federal Spending Cuts Trump Private Sector's Growth"
http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/2013/01/30/5a11e0ea-6afc-11e2-95b3-272d604a10a3_story.html

"U.S. Growth Halted as Federal Spending Fell in Fourth Quarter"
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/31/business/economy/us-economy-unexpectedly-contracted-in-fourth-quarter.html?_r=0

It will be fun when we get to see the reports about how there was a smaller deficit in the fourth quarter and that it caused gdp to shrink...just like we would expect.

Crying about the need for spending cuts and then blaming the expected and foreseeable contraction on Obama teh evil socialist :laugh:




Q4 defitict $292 BILLION, larger than prior two quarters. http://www.fms.treas.gov/mts/mts.xls

Guess again.
Jan 31, 2013 11:03am
G

gut

Senior Member

15,058 posts
Jan 31, 2013 11:09 AM
Manhattan Buckeye;1378150 wrote:The sky isn't falling, but the next bubble to fall will be student loans:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/breaking/chi-half-of-student-loan-holders-defering-payments-20130130,0,1361885.story

Will be interesting to see what this administration does in the next four years. There is no way our young people will ever be able to pay this off.
Well, the US debt bubble might break first.

It's almost like some idiot liberal had a great epiphany, after surveying damage from previous bubbles in the internet and housing, that it would be a good idea to create a bubble in govt spending. That will surely have a better ending than other bubbles. :confused:
Jan 31, 2013 11:09am
jhay78's avatar

jhay78

Senior Member

1,917 posts
Jan 31, 2013 12:13 PM
Cleveland Buck;1378143 wrote:So a shrinking economy is not the problem, it's that the government didn't paper it over enough to hide it from you? Do some of you even think? The economy is not growing if you need government spending to prop it up. The economy hasn't grown since 1999.
This needs repeated.

The economy is not growing if you need government spending to prop it up.
Jan 31, 2013 12:13pm
G

gut

Senior Member

15,058 posts
Jan 31, 2013 12:19 PM
jhay78;1378480 wrote:This needs repeated.

The economy is not growing if you need government spending to prop it up.
One might posit that...gasp...gubmit excess is actually suppressing real economic growth. Four years of record stimulus and we are still struggling.
Jan 31, 2013 12:19pm
sleeper's avatar

sleeper

Legend

27,879 posts
Jan 31, 2013 12:39 PM
Manhattan Buckeye;1378150 wrote:The sky isn't falling, but the next bubble to fall will be student loans:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/breaking/chi-half-of-student-loan-holders-defering-payments-20130130,0,1361885.story

Will be interesting to see what this administration does in the next four years. There is no way our young people will ever be able to pay this off.
It's not even just young people; it's the ballooning adult workforce going to paper colleges and get expensive printouts of degrees. I agree, this bubble will make the housing crises look like economic expansion. The only question is when it pops as opposed to if.
Jan 31, 2013 12:39pm
G

gut

Senior Member

15,058 posts
Jan 31, 2013 12:47 PM
I don't really get the hair pulling over the student debt bubble - it's going to be mostly the govt and some money managers left holding the bag.

The housing bubble destroyed equity/net worth. There's no asset value in a student loan (to the debtor) to be written down. They change default rules at some point and it will be a massive handout for people to go discharge those unsustainable debts. The fallout will be more expensive and hard to obtain loans (which won't necessarily be a bad thing).

But, yeah, the govt will eat another trillion in "entitlements" as a result.
Jan 31, 2013 12:47pm
B

BoatShoes

Senior Member

5,703 posts
Jan 31, 2013 1:30 PM
jhay78;1378480 wrote:This needs repeated.

The economy is not growing if you need government spending to prop it up.
Right because Government Spending shouldn't be counted in Gross Domestic Product even though they don't count transfer payments hahahaha

If a private contractor's bank account at Chase Bank (which has an account at the NY Fed) is debited to purchase steel for a tank it counts but if the Treasury's general account at the NY Fed is debited to purchase steel for a tank it doesn't count.

Just making things up as we go along now re-writing the universally accepted formula for GDP :laugh::laugh::laugh:
Jan 31, 2013 1:30pm
B

BoatShoes

Senior Member

5,703 posts
Jan 31, 2013 1:55 PM
QuakerOats;1378349 wrote:Q4 defitict $292 BILLION, larger than prior two quarters. http://www.fms.treas.gov/mts/mts.xls

Guess again.
We essentially ran a balanced budget in December...The month when the spending cuts discussed in the articles took place...

You've been very helpful in proving my point while also showing that the increased deficits in Oct. and Nov. due to spending preparation for the fiscal cliff were also too small!

:thumbup:
Jan 31, 2013 1:55pm
B

BoatShoes

Senior Member

5,703 posts
Jan 31, 2013 1:58 PM
gut;1378489 wrote:One might posit that...gasp...gubmit excess is actually suppressing real economic growth. Four years of record stimulus and we are still struggling.
lol no. Deficit should probably be about 10% of gdp as opposed to 7% and getting smaller. You've got Dr. Evil syndrome. $1 Trillllliiiionnn Dollars!?!?!?!?:o
Jan 31, 2013 1:58pm
B

BoatShoes

Senior Member

5,703 posts
Jan 31, 2013 2:01 PM
Cleveland Buck;1378319 wrote:So where is the growth that four years of expansionary fiscal policies and massive deficits was supposed to stimulate? Or does the neo-Keynesian plan call for never ending printing, borrowing, and spending until the end of the time?
No, not until the end of time, only until we return to full employment, run deficits that are large enough to do so and interest rates can rise off of the zero bound. You also have doctor evil syndrome.

With desired savings and desired exports where they are we probably need a deficit of about 10% of gdp and the simplest way to get there without a bunch of fancy programs would be a total repeal of the fica taxes and aid to the states until we reach full employment. Then we can all become deficit hawks.
Jan 31, 2013 2:01pm