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Senate Bill 5 Targets Collective Bargaining for Elimination!

Home ▸ Archive ▸ Politics ▸ Senate Bill 5 Targets Collective Bargaining for Elimination!
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Bigdogg

Senior Member

1,429 posts
Feb 17, 2011 2:55 PM
FatHobbit;682034 wrote:There's the problem. Although I'm not sure cancer treatment would be covered. But when insurance is available, why should anyone else pay for you when you chose not to purchase it?

Agreed. Now you are getting to the core of the issue. Is BASIC health care a right or a privilege. I think it's a right and everyone's responsibility to pay.
Feb 17, 2011 2:55pm
derek bomar's avatar

derek bomar

Senior Member

3,722 posts
Feb 17, 2011 2:56 PM
Al Bundy;682030 wrote:I think most teachers would be willing to teach year round, but I highly doubt districts would be willing pay for that. If you look around the country, many places have added teacher furlough days to reduce pay. The trend has been to redued the number of instructional days, not increase it.

who said anything about paying anyone more? Just make their work-year 12 months instead of 9 and pay them the same.
Feb 17, 2011 2:56pm
O-Trap's avatar

O-Trap

Chief Shenanigans Officer

14,994 posts
Feb 17, 2011 2:58 PM
derek bomar;682007 wrote:while we're on the topic of education...why the hell don't we have year-round (Qtr system) schooling? Kids take 2.5 months off and they forget everything. I never understood summer break.
Farming used to be bigger, and kids were needed in the farm fields during the summer.

There was actually a big article in TIME Magazine a couple months ago that talked about this exact topic. Raised some interesting ideas.
ernest_t_bass;682010 wrote:I'm sure you loved it as a kid though! The original school calendar was developed around farmer's schedules. Start Labor Day and end Memorial Day.
Sure. Kids LOVED summer break. Doesn't mean it's the best option.

Kids also love not getting shots, but that doesn't mean immunization isn't the better choice.
derek bomar;682014 wrote:that doesn't make it applicable for kids today...I think kids should go year-round, and teachers should have to teach year-round.
Agreed.
Bigdogg;682033 wrote:Your rights end where mine begin.
I think this applies in a lot of areas, and can correlate closely with other social programs as well.
Bigdogg;682033 wrote:If you choose not to buy health insurance and then you get cancer, you still get treated under the current law.
Then THAT'S what needs changed ... not this absurd HCR Bill.
Bigdogg;682033 wrote:I and other taxpayers still have to pay for your right to chose not to bear the burden and personal responsibility of purchasing health insurance. To compare this with forcing you to purchasing a car or life insurance is just stupid.
Under the current system, you're right. It should function precisely like those others. You don't have to have that insurance ... your choice, your risk, your responsibility.
Bigdogg;682033 wrote:If you want to not purchase health insurance then you should sign away your rights for treatment or there should be a penalty.
Bigdogg, we don't always agree, but you're my hero for a day for saying this.

Financially sink or swim on your own. It's not MY responsibility if you make the wrong choices, and they put you in a financial bind, and vice versa.
Bigdogg;682033 wrote:Pooling the risk and spreading it across everyone is the only way to reduce the cost of health care, which this is really about if you eliminate all the partisan BS.

Scratch my previous comment. LOL!
Feb 17, 2011 2:58pm
W

wkfan

Senior Member

1,641 posts
Feb 17, 2011 3:02 PM
derek bomar;682043 wrote:who said anything about paying anyone more? Just make their work-year 12 months instead of 9 and pay them the same.
Having year-round school would cost more...not in terms of teacher salary (assuming that the school year stayed at 180 days, just spread over 12 months rather tan 10), but it would cost slightly more in terms of utiilities, custodial costs, etc.
Feb 17, 2011 3:02pm
Cleveland Buck's avatar

Cleveland Buck

Troll Hunter

5,126 posts
Feb 17, 2011 3:03 PM
If health care is a right, then why isn't food? It is more important than health care. When am I going to get my crate of federal food delivered to my door? What about housing? I think the federal government should provide everything we need for us, not just health care.
Feb 17, 2011 3:03pm
O-Trap's avatar

O-Trap

Chief Shenanigans Officer

14,994 posts
Feb 17, 2011 3:04 PM
Bigdogg;682042 wrote:Agreed. Now you are getting to the core of the issue. Is BASIC health care a right or a privilege. I think it's a right and everyone's responsibility to pay.

And I disagree. Not saying it's "fair" if someone gets sick and cannot afford insurance. Just saying that it is not their "right" to take money from anyone else to cover their own costs.

Now, that doesn't mean people should be assholes and not help. My in-laws do this on a regular basis (they are currently helping pay for the medical bills of a girl in her early 20s that has been diagnosed with leukemia). Shouldn't be an obligation, though.
Feb 17, 2011 3:04pm
W

wkfan

Senior Member

1,641 posts
Feb 17, 2011 3:05 PM
Cleveland Buck;682054 wrote:If health care is a right, then why isn't food? It is more important than health care. When am I going to get my crate of federal food delivered to my door? What about housing? I think the federal government should provide everything we need for us, not just health care.
Welcome to the Democratic party.
Feb 17, 2011 3:05pm
J

jmog

Senior Member

6,567 posts
Feb 17, 2011 3:05 PM
ccrunner609;678751 wrote:are you kidding? Teachers are college educated professionals.....you deserve this stuff.

You do realize that teachers are about the ONLY "college educated professionals" that are in unions right? Most other unions are for blue collar workers.

Most of us "college educated professionals" that work in the private sector have to represent ourselves when it comes to salary increases, benefits, etc.
Feb 17, 2011 3:05pm
FatHobbit's avatar

FatHobbit

Senior Member

8,651 posts
Feb 17, 2011 3:07 PM
Cleveland Buck;682054 wrote:If health care is a right, then why isn't food? It is more important than health care. When am I going to get my crate of federal food delivered to my door? What about housing? I think the federal government should provide everything we need for us, not just health care.

What about internet access? It's not fair that little Timmy doesn't have the same resources as Billy.

How about cars? It's not fair that the president of the company where I work drives a mercedes while I'm stuck in a POS honda. I shouldn't have to worry about my car breaking down all the time. I gotta get to work don't I?
Feb 17, 2011 3:07pm
B

Bigdogg

Senior Member

1,429 posts
Feb 17, 2011 3:07 PM
Cleveland Buck;682054 wrote:If health care is a right, then why isn't food? It is more important than health care. When am I going to get my crate of federal food delivered to my door? What about housing? I think the federal government should provide everything we need for us, not just health care.

I can plant a garden, hunt and fish. I can't treat major illnesses.
Feb 17, 2011 3:07pm
G

Gblock

Feb 17, 2011 3:10 PM
health care should be free
Feb 17, 2011 3:10pm
J

jmog

Senior Member

6,567 posts
Feb 17, 2011 3:12 PM
Gblock;682068 wrote:health care should be free

Physically impossible to do. Please explain how health care could even possibly be free.

Just because they take it out of our checks before we see the money in taxes and then have a universal health care system, doesn't make it free, you are still paying for it.
Feb 17, 2011 3:12pm
Cleveland Buck's avatar

Cleveland Buck

Troll Hunter

5,126 posts
Feb 17, 2011 3:12 PM
Bigdogg;682063 wrote:I can plant a garden, hunt and fish. I can't treat major illnesses.

What about those who can't garden, hunt or fish, should they learn how to? How compassionate is that? And shouldn't you, then, learn how to treat major illnesses, or pay someone who does?
Feb 17, 2011 3:12pm
FatHobbit's avatar

FatHobbit

Senior Member

8,651 posts
Feb 17, 2011 3:13 PM
Feb 17, 2011 3:13pm
tsst_fballfan's avatar

tsst_fballfan

Senior Member

406 posts
Feb 17, 2011 3:22 PM
Bigdogg;682063 wrote:I can plant a garden, hunt and fish. I can't treat major illnesses.
That still doesn't make it a right.
Feb 17, 2011 3:22pm
O-Trap's avatar

O-Trap

Chief Shenanigans Officer

14,994 posts
Feb 17, 2011 3:57 PM
Bigdogg;682063 wrote:I can plant a garden, hunt and fish. I can't treat major illnesses.
What if I have no money for seed, fishing tackle, or any hunting equipment? What if there are many like me? Should you be forced to buy me a pole, gun (or crossbow), and gardening tools?
Gblock;682068 wrote:health care should be free
So should food, houses, and transportation.
Feb 17, 2011 3:57pm
M

Manhattan Buckeye

Senior Member

7,566 posts
Feb 17, 2011 4:03 PM
jmog;682073 wrote:Physically impossible to do. Please explain how health care could even possibly be free.

Just because they take it out of our checks before we see the money in taxes and then have a universal health care system, doesn't make it free, you are still paying for it.

Doctors, pharmaceutical companies, nurses, pharmacists, etc. should be wards of the government, obviously. They should get whatever the government determines they should get.

Holy crap, with the disaster that has happened in the U.S. the last few years with a rampant turn into (ineffective) statism, some people want to continue going down that route? I'm being halfway joking and halfway serious, this country may not last many of our lifetimes. We want want the government to provide anything (although they can't), and don't want to pay for it. Entitlement. Entitlement. Entitlement.
Feb 17, 2011 4:03pm
T

tiger1990

Senior Member

139 posts
Feb 17, 2011 4:06 PM
Merit based pay = firing experienced, well-trained teachers that have become "too expensive." Such a cop-out bill, brought to you by the same political party that brought us No Child Left Behind....!! Christ, why would anyone want to be a teacher today?
Feb 17, 2011 4:06pm
J

jmog

Senior Member

6,567 posts
Feb 17, 2011 4:11 PM
tiger1990;682153 wrote:Merit based pay = firing experienced, well-trained teachers that have become "too expensive." Such a cop-out bill, brought to you by the same political party that brought us No Child Left Behind....!! Christ, why would anyone want to be a teacher today?

Right...because that's what it means in the private sector? Merit raises do not equal firing "experienced, well-trained employees" in the private sector why would it have to mean that in the public sector?

I swear public employees on average just don't get it.

And both of my parents are in unions, one in a public job, one in a private. Both of them laugh at the crap the unions pull at times and tell their co-workers they are retarded.
Feb 17, 2011 4:11pm
Cleveland Buck's avatar

Cleveland Buck

Troll Hunter

5,126 posts
Feb 17, 2011 4:12 PM
tiger1990;682153 wrote:Christ, why would anyone want to be a teacher today?
Because they get paid more and have better benefits to work half a year than most of the private sector gets to work a full year.
Feb 17, 2011 4:12pm
J

jmog

Senior Member

6,567 posts
Feb 17, 2011 4:14 PM
tiger1990;682153 wrote:Christ, why would anyone want to be a teacher today?

You really want to go over pay per working day for a teacher vs most bachelor degree level jobs?
Feb 17, 2011 4:14pm
W

wkfan

Senior Member

1,641 posts
Feb 17, 2011 4:14 PM
Cleveland Buck;682162 wrote:Because they get paid more and have better benefits to work half a year than most of the private sector gets to work a full year.

Are you really that mis-informed???
Feb 17, 2011 4:14pm
M

Manhattan Buckeye

Senior Member

7,566 posts
Feb 17, 2011 4:15 PM
'I swear public employees on average just don't get it."

End of thread. They don't, and the idiots in Wisconsin now are evidence of this. When you aren't accountable and believe you are exempt from economic realities, this is what you get. It will take a national bankruptcy (to the extent we aren't already there) and their checks to bounce to get it.

It isn't even a GOP vs. DEM thing - My dad is a lifelong Republican and a lifetime NEA/OEA member and is absolutely clueless as to how my wife and I live.
Feb 17, 2011 4:15pm
OneBuckeye's avatar

OneBuckeye

Senior Member

5,888 posts
Feb 17, 2011 4:22 PM
Lets do some math. Say Private Employee gets paid 50K and Teacher gets paid 50K. Assuming a teacher works 190 days a year and Private employee works 50weeks * 5days = 250 Days a year.

50k/190 =263$/day
50K/250=200$/day
63/200=32% more pay for the Teacher.

That doesn't include the sweet Pension the Teacher gets vs the shitty 401K Private employee gets.
Feb 17, 2011 4:22pm
T

tiger1990

Senior Member

139 posts
Feb 17, 2011 4:23 PM
jmog;682165 wrote:You really want to go over pay per working day for a teacher vs most bachelor degree level jobs?

Asnine. I get so sick of hearing that shit. I watch my wife nod off at 11:30 each night grading papers. She puts in a helluva lot of extra time no one by my kids & I see. She's gotten her masters & is now working on another endorsement to be a Talented & Gifted instructor (in a small, rural district), but after reading that proposed bill she's convinced she'll be one of the first to lose her job. She's too "expensive," and it doesn't take a genious to figure out it's all a numbers game if this goes through.

I'm a private sector employee and I know if our school districts are run like the company I work for there will be temps & consultants monitoring my kid's classrooms...
Feb 17, 2011 4:23pm