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Disgusted With Obama Administration.

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jhay78's avatar

jhay78

Senior Member

1,917 posts
May 27, 2011 12:28 PM
ptown_trojans_1;782294 wrote:Huh? What 1967 agreement splits Israel in half? It is the way around. As he stated in the speech, 67 is the starting point, then it gets complicated. He would have been better to go back to 1992 and Oslo and then back to 1999 and bring that deal up, but 1967 is the basis for all that. No one is saying Israel go back to the 67 border at the end, just that it is a starting point and from that we get into the nitty gritty details about settlements, water, etc.

Maybe I'm not the best at geography, but is it possible to have a contiguous Palestinian state and a contiguous Israeli state at the same time? Why would Obama mention that in his first speech?
So while the core issues of the conflict must be negotiated, the basis of those negotiations is clear: a viable Palestine, and a secure Israel. The United States believes that negotiations should result in two states, with permanent Palestinian borders with Israel, Jordan, and Egypt, and permanent Israeli borders with Palestine. The borders of Israel and Palestine should be based on the 1967 lines with mutually agreed swaps, so that secure and recognized borders are established for both states. The Palestinian people must have the right to govern themselves, and reach their potential, in a sovereign and contiguous state.

Read more at the Washington Examiner: http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/beltway-confidential/2011/05/full-text-obamas-middle-east-speech#ixzz1NZRVTSB0
May 27, 2011 12:28pm
Q

QuakerOats

Senior Member

8,740 posts
May 27, 2011 1:48 PM
I Wear Pants;783253 wrote:OMG she bought a vehical she liked! How outrageous!!!!

What's a vehical?
May 27, 2011 1:48pm
fish82's avatar

fish82

Senior Member

4,111 posts
May 27, 2011 2:37 PM
I Wear Pants;783253 wrote:OMG she bought a vehical she liked! How outrageous!!!!
She can drive whatever the hell she wants. But if you're gonna do that, best not to say shit like this:
"If it were up to the candidates for president on the Republican side," said Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz of Florida, "we would be driving foreign cars. They would have let the auto industry in America go down the tubes."
The RNC has to be licking their chops already. This lady already strikes me as a pretty dim bulb.
May 27, 2011 2:37pm
Writerbuckeye's avatar

Writerbuckeye

Senior Member

4,745 posts
May 27, 2011 5:04 PM
fish82;783425 wrote:She can drive whatever the hell she wants. But if you're gonna do that, best not to say shit like this:



The RNC has to be licking their chops already. This lady already strikes me as a pretty dim bulb.

Good Lord, given the huge number of automobile-related jobs in this country that come from countries like Japan, to say such a thing is FLAT OUT STUPID.

Look at Ohio, for God's sake. Honda and related suppliers employ thousands of people in good paying jobs. We should ignore all that and blindly buy an "American" (whatever the hell that is, since many American company cars and parts are made on foreign soil) vehicle?

That woman is beyond stupid.
May 27, 2011 5:04pm
Belly35's avatar

Belly35

Elderly Intellectual

9,716 posts
May 28, 2011 7:24 AM
I Wear Pants;783253 wrote:OMG she bought a vehical she liked! How outrageous!!!!

What a vehical?
May 28, 2011 7:24am
J

jmog

Senior Member

6,567 posts
May 28, 2011 1:59 PM
I Wear Pants;783253 wrote:OMG she bought a vehical she liked! How outrageous!!!!

Common sense should tell you that the problem isn't that she bought a foreign car. The problem was that she bought a foreign car AND chastised Republicans for hating the American car manufacturers.
May 28, 2011 1:59pm
Writerbuckeye's avatar

Writerbuckeye

Senior Member

4,745 posts
May 28, 2011 3:01 PM
The real problem is that there isn't really such a thing as an "American" car these days. To believe otherwise is being deliberately disingenuous.
May 28, 2011 3:01pm
ptown_trojans_1's avatar

ptown_trojans_1

Moderator

7,632 posts
May 28, 2011 6:29 PM
Writerbuckeye;784034 wrote:The real problem is that there isn't really such a thing as an "American" car these days. To believe otherwise is being deliberately disingenuous.

That's a problem? Not in my view. In today's economy, there is no such thing as a national car company. Toyota, Honda, Hyundia, Mercedes, BMW, etc all have plants around the globe and in the U.S. The car is now, just like everything else, a global commodity.
May 28, 2011 6:29pm
believer's avatar

believer

Senior Member

8,153 posts
May 28, 2011 6:30 PM
Writerbuckeye;784034 wrote:The real problem is that there isn't really such a thing as an "American" car these days. To believe otherwise is being deliberately disingenuous.

True. Chryslers are built in Mexico from Chinese and Japanese parts, Hondas are built in Ohio, Toyotas are built in Kentucky, Mercedes-Benz builds cars in Alabama, Ford owns the Japanese Mazda line, etc.

It's complete bullshit these days to view ANY car as truly American-made or 100% foreign-made for that matter.
May 28, 2011 6:30pm
Writerbuckeye's avatar

Writerbuckeye

Senior Member

4,745 posts
May 28, 2011 7:38 PM
ptown_trojans_1;784168 wrote:That's a problem? Not in my view. In today's economy, there is no such thing as a national car company. Toyota, Honda, Hyundia, Mercedes, BMW, etc all have plants around the globe and in the U.S. The car is now, just like everything else, a global commodity.

You agree with me and you're misinterpreting (I think) what I wrote. I wasn't saying it's a problem that such a company exists because there SHOULD be solely American companies -- I'm saying it's a problem for people, like this idiot woman, who demagogue about such things.
May 28, 2011 7:38pm
I

I Wear Pants

Senior Member

16,223 posts
May 28, 2011 9:27 PM
Belly35;783870 wrote:What a vehical?
Belly just corrected my spelling. Someone hold my drink while I go hang myself. :)

Nice catch Belly.


For teh seriouz: I wouldn't give a shit if there was a 100% American made car. I'd buy the car that is in my budget and fits my wants/needs. If that car would happen to be it great, if not then I'm not buying an American car just for the sake of buying an American car.
May 28, 2011 9:27pm
believer's avatar

believer

Senior Member

8,153 posts
May 29, 2011 6:41 AM
I Wear Pants;784294 wrote:I wouldn't give a shit if there was a 100% American made car. I'd buy the car that is in my budget and fits my wants/needs. If that car would happen to be it great, if not then I'm not buying an American car just for the sake of buying an American car.
Exactly. I have a 20 minute one-way commute to work every day. I bought a Hyundai Accent - not because it turns heads or goes from zero to 80 in 10 seconds in luxurious comfort - but because it gets me from point A to point B at 34 miles per gallon. It also helps that I could get it at a lot less than $10,000. I could give a rat's ass if it was built in Korea or Michigan.
May 29, 2011 6:41am
ptown_trojans_1's avatar

ptown_trojans_1

Moderator

7,632 posts
May 29, 2011 9:57 AM
Writerbuckeye;784224 wrote:You agree with me and you're misinterpreting (I think) what I wrote. I wasn't saying it's a problem that such a company exists because there SHOULD be solely American companies -- I'm saying it's a problem for people, like this idiot woman, who demagogue about such things.

Ahhh, got ya. Yeah, we are pretty much in agreement then.
May 29, 2011 9:57am
G

gut

Senior Member

15,058 posts
May 30, 2011 12:24 PM
Palin will get slaughtered for quitting the gov job in Alaska.

Romney will get slaughtered for Romneycare and a history of flip-flopping that makes John Kerry blush.

I highly doubt either one gets the nomination.
May 30, 2011 12:24pm
Mr. 300's avatar

Mr. 300

Senior Member

3,090 posts
May 30, 2011 1:17 PM
Right now it's all about the glory of being called "former presidential candidate......". This is such a circus right now, but each party out of the WH goes through this.
May 30, 2011 1:17pm
believer's avatar

believer

Senior Member

8,153 posts
May 30, 2011 3:28 PM
stlouiedipalma;785228 wrote:It's nice to see that Mitt now claims credit for saving GM...

http://romney4president.org/2011/05/after-calling-the-auto-rescue-“tragic”-mitt-romney-now-claims-he/?amp

Looks like Mitt might be the champion flip-flopper of the modern era.
Naw...that's reserved for loser John Kerry but Romney's a close second which is precisely why he will not get the nomination.
May 30, 2011 3:28pm
iclfan2's avatar

iclfan2

Reppin' the 330/216/843

6,360 posts
May 30, 2011 10:02 PM
So I watched 60 minutes Sunday, and many of the terrorists leading the fights are coming out of Pakistan. So I ask again, why the hell do we send them $3B a year? Makes no damn sense. We send money to a country that helps our enemies.
May 30, 2011 10:02pm
I

I Wear Pants

Senior Member

16,223 posts
May 30, 2011 10:18 PM
believer;784453 wrote:Exactly. I have a 20 minute one-way commute to work every day. I bought a Hyundai Accent - not because it turns heads or goes from zero to 80 in 10 seconds in luxurious comfort - but because it gets me from point A to point B at 34 miles per gallon. It also helps that I could get it at a lot less than $10,000. I could give a rat's ass if it was built in Korea or Michigan.
What's weird is that many of the people who are staunchly "buy American at all costs" also claim to be of the opinion that laissez-faire economics are the end all be all. It's strange because buying American because it's American is quite different from that. If you truly believed in the free market you would always purchase the highest quality product that fit your needs/budget regardless of brand or country of origin.
May 30, 2011 10:18pm
ptown_trojans_1's avatar

ptown_trojans_1

Moderator

7,632 posts
May 30, 2011 11:08 PM
iclfan2;785811 wrote:So I watched 60 minutes Sunday, and many of the terrorists leading the fights are coming out of Pakistan. So I ask again, why the hell do we send them $3B a year? Makes no damn sense. We send money to a country that helps our enemies.

Nukes.

They have 100 or so nukes and are building more and more.
Nukes+terrorists+failed Pakistan state=America's worst nightmare.

I agree it is a screwed up situation. The Haqqani network is the worst. Yet, we cannot afford to let the Pakistanis go.
May 30, 2011 11:08pm
believer's avatar

believer

Senior Member

8,153 posts
May 31, 2011 5:31 AM
I Wear Pants;785821 wrote:What's weird is that many of the people who are staunchly "buy American at all costs" also claim to be of the opinion that laissez-faire economics are the end all be all. It's strange because buying American because it's American is quite different from that. If you truly believed in the free market you would always purchase the highest quality product that fit your needs/budget regardless of brand or country of origin.
I agree. This is why I have no issues purchasing a Hyundai or buying my day-to-day living products from Wal-Mart for example.

Despite the haters, Wal-Mart is the poster child for global free market capitalism IMHO. Everything is under one roof, the stores are generally laid out logically, they offer a reasonable selection on most items (except clothing for some strange reason), and because of their purchasing power they can pass on direct savings to the consumer.

Frankly I could care less if their products are Chinese or Nicaraguan as long as I'm getting the level of quality I can accept at a reasonable price. I'll buy American first IF the product is priced fairly but I refuse to to pay more simply because the label reads "Made in the USA."
May 31, 2011 5:31am
Writerbuckeye's avatar

Writerbuckeye

Senior Member

4,745 posts
May 31, 2011 11:52 AM
I Wear Pants;785821 wrote:What's weird is that many of the people who are staunchly "buy American at all costs" also claim to be of the opinion that laissez-faire economics are the end all be all. It's strange because buying American because it's American is quite different from that. If you truly believed in the free market you would always purchase the highest quality product that fit your needs/budget regardless of brand or country of origin.

That's not how I see it at all. Those who have been in the "buy American" camp are people that tend to be unionized American workers, like those at GM, Ford, etc.

I don't see conservatives, who are the ones that believe in a true free market, pushing buy American programs to the point that it costs extra money. I see members of both political parties urging buy American when possible, but I haven't seen any free marketers saying we should only buy American products.
May 31, 2011 11:52am
G

gut

Senior Member

15,058 posts
May 31, 2011 12:51 PM
You can still believe in free markets and value/place a premium on "made in America". Technically it shouldn't be a factor, but all else equal I don't see anything wrong with "made in America" being an additional consideration. Of course, that whole concept seems to be mostly about cars. I'd think it would be extremely difficult to buy 100% made in America (like, do you not fly routes using an Airbus?)
May 31, 2011 12:51pm
B

BoatShoes

Senior Member

5,703 posts
Jun 1, 2011 1:25 AM
believer;785974 wrote:I agree. This is why I have no issues purchasing a Hyundai or buying my day-to-day living products from Wal-Mart for example.

Despite the haters, Wal-Mart is the poster child for global free market capitalism IMHO. Everything is under one roof, the stores are generally laid out logically, they offer a reasonable selection on most items (except clothing for some strange reason), and because of their purchasing power they can pass on direct savings to the consumer.

Frankly I could care less if their products are Chinese or Nicaraguan as long as I'm getting the level of quality I can accept at a reasonable price. I'll buy American first IF the product is priced fairly but I refuse to to pay more simply because the label reads "Made in the USA."

"priced fairly" is a strange concept though isn't it when in one country you believe in inalienable rights of man and human dignity being captured by the market price and codified in our social contract and on another continent you have nothing of the sort. If there's an economist's creed it ought to include an understanding of comparative advantage and free trade but it seems to me that something might be wrong, at least from a moral and philosophical sense, about the comparative advantage being grounded the labor force's lack of human rights and the freedom of capital to more greatly exploit it. Seems weird to think about my t'shirt being "priced fairly" when that market price was arrived at through means our own domestic laws and sentiments and popular christian morals would deem as immoral.

NOTE: I'm not advocating protectionism and understand the benefits of free trade to eventually improve the lives of the exploited in sweat shops in the future....
Jun 1, 2011 1:25am
believer's avatar

believer

Senior Member

8,153 posts
Jun 1, 2011 4:10 AM
BoatShoes;787305 wrote:NOTE: I'm not advocating protectionism and understand the benefits of free trade to eventually improve the lives of the exploited in sweat shops in the future....
When Nixon visited the Chi-Coms in the early 70's we saw television images of thousands of people wearing olive drab Mao suits and riding bicycles to their sweatshops of exploitation. Now we see western-style clothing and traffic jams full of shiny new cars as these communist peasants scurry off to their sweatshops.

We eventually rose above our sweatshop mentality. You assume these "poor huddled communist masses" will not also rise above their - um - labor issues given some time. Seems they've arguably made at least some progress already.
Seems weird to think about my t'shirt being "priced fairly" when that market price was arrived at through means our own domestic laws and sentiments and popular christian morals would deem as immoral.
True....we've over-regulated and taxed ourselves out of jobs the Chinese were all too glad to accommodate in their sweatshops of exploitation.

The paradox: We use Big Government and Big Labor to over-regulate, over-price, and tax good paying jobs out of existence. The Chinese use Big Government to build and grow sweatshops to employ its people. I guess this is just a different form of "moral relativism."

Question: Do you buy anything Chinese made? Anything at all? It's damned near impossible these days to avoid it whether you choose to boycott Wal-Mart or not. When you are "forced" to buy these Chinese products do you squirm a little morally or do you simply purchase them because it made economic sense to do so at the time?

Not to worry though. As our government spends us into economic oblivion and the Chi-Com gubmint stops buying our debt with their exploited sweatshop labor, we'll be the ones forced to wear olive drab Mao suits and ride bicycles to flip burgers at your nearest Wal-Mart in-store McDonald's location.
Jun 1, 2011 4:10am