posted by ptown_trojans_1

You mean how the leaks are now coming from the right? 

In this story are conservative clerks leaking on background like everyone does. 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/05/07/supreme-court-abortion-roe-roberts-alito/

People on the right leak.  I'm shocked.

posted by majorspark

All this worry about the states and their laws.  The left are logistical masters at transporting mobs anywhere in the US.  I'm sure they have the ability to transport women to any state the will them to kill their baby for any reason.

Depends, but here in Ohio, again the law being debated makes zero exceptions. Seems like I am the only one even aware of that on here. 

posted by majorspark

People on the right leak.  I'm shocked.

Exactly. That's the name of the game which makes the leak last week a non story to me in terms of who leaked it. 

The old other side argument.  Our parents tried to save us from this.  Well billy does this.  If billy jumps off a bridge are you going to jump? 

posted by ptown_trojans_1

Depends, but here in Ohio, again the law being debated makes zero exceptions. Seems like I am the only one even aware of that on here. 

Debated is not law.  Debates usually contain extremes on both sides.  Zero exceptions political scare tactic.  You do know a women can terminate her pregnancy without killing the baby. 

posted by majorspark

The old other side argument.  Our parents tried to save us from this.  Well billy does this.  If billy jumps off a bridge are you going to jump? 

Not saying that at all, just that people on here are selective on their outrage about leaks. 

posted by majorspark

Debated is not law.  Debates usually contain extremes on both sides.  Zero exceptions political scare tactic.  You do know a women can terminate her pregnancy without killing the baby. 

We shall see in Ohio, but you cannot ignore the shift to the right in the abortion laws over the years in states. 

posted by ptown_trojans_1

We shall see in Ohio, but you cannot ignore the shift to the right in the abortion laws over the years in states. 

You frame it in political terms.  I see it as a shift to life.

posted by majorspark

You frame it in political terms.  I see it as a shift to life.

Statehouses are political organizations and are drastically changing laws, so yeah, I see it in political terms. 

posted by ptown_trojans_1

Statehouses are political organizations and are drastically changing laws, so yeah, I see it in political terms. 

The people of Ohio likely will no longer be confined by 9 people in robes.  You can trust the people in Ohio.  Maybe they choose life.

posted by ptown_trojans_1

Statehouses are political organizations and are drastically changing laws, so yeah, I see it in political terms. 

Spoiler alert....The Dems will never push for serious legislation at the federal level because abortion is a wedge issue for them.  Same with guns.

Both sides do it.  The issues are critically important to hordes of single-issue voting dumbasses.  Sensible/responsible progress is unlikely to happen so long as these assholes keep getting re-elected.  Our voters truly suck.

posted by majorspark

The people of Ohio likely will no longer be confined by 9 people in robes.  You can trust the people in Ohio.  Maybe they choose life.

Sure, but how restrictive? How radical and outside the norm will they be? You say life, but what does that mean here? 

posted by gut

Spoiler alert....The Dems will never push for serious legislation at the federal level because abortion is a wedge issue for them.  Same with guns.

Both sides do it.  The issues are critically important to hordes of single-issue voting dumbasses.  Sensible/responsible progress is unlikely to happen so long as these assholes keep getting re-elected.  Our voters truly suck.

Yeah, sure. It is a state house issue. 

posted by ptown_trojans_1

Sure, but how restrictive? How radical and outside the norm will they be? You say life, but what does that mean here? 

Radical? Outside the norm?  Where in nature is killing your offspring the norm?  

posted by majorspark

Radical? Outside the norm?  Where in nature is killing your offspring the norm?  

I don't think you grasp the debate in the statehouse.

posted by majorspark

Radical? Outside the norm?  Where in nature is killing your offspring the norm?  

It's quite interesting to see the law in other very progressive countries.  Canada has no restrictions, but in actual effect it's essentially 24 weeks.  In France it's 15 weeks.  UK is 24 weeks.

I'm sure there have been more than a few times in the past 45 years you might have gotten 60 votes for a similar policy.  But today would you have even 40 or 45 Dems agree to such a "compromise"?

Hopefully the dust settles relatively quickly and people realize maybe this isn't such a big deal.  Again, a study determined this might reduce abortions 15%.  And given it's pro choice roots, that number is probably at least double what it would be (before even considering charitable organizations that would step in to help women where it's illegal).

Seriously worried this will be the justification for eliminating the filibuster and packing the SCOTUS.  But that's probably inevitable unless voters start electing adults again.

posted by ptown_trojans_1

I don't think you grasp the debate in the statehouse.

Give me something to grasp.

posted by majorspark

Give me something to grasp.

Research the debate here in Ohio...and the bill in question.

Also, research public opinion polls on how nuanced most people are on the issue and refer back to the bill in question. 

posted by gut

It's quite interesting to see the law in other very progressive countries.  Canada has no restrictions, but in actual effect it's essentially 24 weeks.  In France it's 15 weeks.  UK is 24 weeks.

I'm sure there have been more than a few times in the past 45 years you might have gotten 60 votes for a similar policy.  But today would you have even 40 or 45 Dems agree to such a "compromise"?

Hopefully the dust settles relatively quickly and people realize maybe this isn't such a big deal.  Again, a study determined this might reduce abortions 15%.  And given it's pro choice roots, that number is probably at least double what it would be (before even considering charitable organizations that would step in to help women where it's illegal).

Seriously worried this will be the justification for eliminating the filibuster and packing the SCOTUS.  But that's probably inevitable unless voters start electing adults again.

I just think the debate heads to state houses and then back to the Supreme Court. 

posted by gut

Seriously worried this will be the justification for eliminating the filibuster and packing the SCOTUS.  But that's probably inevitable unless voters start electing adults again.

posted by ptown_trojans_1

I just think the debate heads to state houses and then back to the Supreme Court. 

It sounds to me like Alito's majority opinion is it's not a constitutional right.  I'm sure there will be thousands of legal challenges around the country, but few if any are going to reach the SCOTUS unless they come up with a new argument.  I don't see any interest in hearing a case to potentially reverse themselves after just overturning a 45-yr precedent.   

You have a conservative majority now that seems pretty intent on ending legislating from the bench. So most of this will be left up to the states, where I think a majority of people would agree it belongs.

posted by ptown_trojans_1

Research the debate here in Ohio...and the bill in question.

Also, research public opinion polls on how nuanced most people are on the issue and refer back to the bill in question. 

You are the one wetting yourself about this sinister bill being debated.  Surely you can provide me with one line item on this bill that you have determined is completely terrible. You by your own claims are already well versed.

posted by majorspark
The leak and the obvious pre planned responses by politicians on the left, this is the objective.

Hopefully it's all just a new wedge issue for the Dems.  I can't imagine what a shitshow DC becomes if you eliminate the filibuster. 

Not sure if all Senate rules are subject to a simple majority, but if the filibuster goes then that seems absolute.  No idea, in that scenario, if you can bulletproof legislation from being tossed when control switches parties. 

posted by gut

Hopefully it's all just a new wedge issue for the Dems.  I can't imagine what a shitshow DC becomes if you eliminate the filibuster. 

Not sure if all Senate rules are subject to a simple majority, but if the filibuster goes then that seems absolute.  No idea, in that scenario, if you can bulletproof legislation from being tossed when control switches parties. 

It's the unattainable objective.  It's like the Russians with the nuke threats.  Burn it all down threats only work on the weak.

posted by geeblock

Weren’t you the one saying stop using extreme circumstances like rape or incest that almost never happen to cloud this topic now you are using something that also almost never happens? Do better 

It’s not extreme when it is currently being voted on in multiple states.