posted by iclfan2

Sources! Weird that they’d want to set the bar extremely low to have no responsibility going forward.

posted by ptown_trojans_1

Of course I am going to be labled the Biden fan on here because, unlike a majority of the posters on here, and especially you, I have an open mind.

posted by Fab4Runner

I'm glad your wife hasn't dealt with sexism or discrimination. That's not the case for millions of other women. And I'm lol-ing a bit at discrimination in white male lives. 

I'm incredibly glad I just saw the first female VP sworn in.

posted by gut

Same as the old boss. Just less vulgar.

posted by like_that

In Ptown's bubble, accepting and supporting Biden eventhough he's not nearly liberal enough is a very moderate thing to do

posted by GOONx19

Statement 1 is simply silly. If she truly does not understand the value of such a course to administrators/leadership, the course instructor is either not doing a very good job or she's not paying much attention.

I'd love to hear examples for Statement 2, but I'd wager that compelling examples of prejudicial treatment against you on the basis of sex or race do not exist.

She's been in education (or wanted to be) her whole life. She graduated from the best education program in Kentucky (insert jokes there). How is it silly that she has that view, especially with her own history in the field? She's more than qualified to make that statement, especially when she's dealt with many powerful female administrators and teachers. Never once has it came up from anyone that she's been connected with in the schools she's been in -- student teaching to full-time employment.

I've not had two jobs go my way, ones that I have been clearly more qualified than the eventual hire. The hire ended up being female. Each time. One was actually a colleague of mine with several years less qualified than me, nowhere near the professional development, and definitely not in the "specialty" that I have -- especially for the position. She got hired, stayed 3 months, and is out of the career since.

I expect it to happen. I know what my career holds and I know how universities (college coaching) happen to hire. I have friends who are told they have to hire females, even if it means more-qualified males are in the running. It's all good, I don't lose sleep over it at all. Like I said, I know the hiring processes and expectations when I apply at many of these places.

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2021/01/21/national-guard-forced-to-evacuate-capitol-grounds-after-alleged-mask-complaint-by-democrat-congressman/

Really?  One person without a mask on in an eating establishment causes this?

posted by GOONx19

Statement 1 is simply silly. If she truly does not understand the value of such a course to administrators/leadership, the course instructor is either not doing a very good job or she's not paying much attention.

I'd love to hear examples for Statement 2, but I'd wager that compelling examples of prejudicial treatment against you on the basis of sex or race do not exist.

I will give 2 examples, 1 from my dad 40 years ago, and one from me 20 years ago.

My dad, almost 40 years ago, wanted to switch careers and be a firemen/EMT. He scored 2nd on a combination of all the tests among all the people that went through the program. The fire department was only hiring 2 firemen at the time. So if they were hiring the two best candidates, my dad would have been a firemen. However, because of affirmative action only one of the two new hires could be a white male. Since the one person that scored better than him was also a white male, my dad lost the job to a lower scoring minority.

About 24 years ago I started college. When it comes to engineering scholarships are typically all about math/science grades and math/science parts of the ACT (math if you only took SAT). My GPA  (math science) and ACT (math science) were actually perfect scores (straight As in grades, 36s on math/science). It earned me a full tuition paid scholarship for engineering. An african american girl in my class (who was an amazing person, we were great friends, so this is nothing against her) didn't have the same grades or ACT scores. She had not only full tuition, but full room and board, plus a living stipend so she didn't have to work through school. I had to work 2 and 3 part time jobs to have spending money. She even thought it was appalling that she got a lot more than I did scholarship wise. I personally told her that she needed it (she also was a single mother). Even though I also needed it (had a wife and kid by the time I graduated). So she got extra scholarships not based on merit, but based on the color of her skin vs mine. 

If you don't believe there is discrimination out there against Caucasian males, then you aren't paying much attention.

And lets not even start on the false sexual assault accusations that end a college kids career just based on the statement of the female. No evidence needed. 

posted by Fab4Runner

I'm glad your wife hasn't dealt with sexism or discrimination. That's not the case for millions of other women. And I'm lol-ing a bit at discrimination in white male lives. 

I'm incredibly glad I just saw the first female VP sworn in.

lol, I love you just admitting right out your implicit bias at "lol-ing a bit at discrimination in white male lives" 

posted by like_that

Sweet response there...

posted by jmog

I will give 2 examples, 1 from my dad 40 years ago, and one from me 20 years ago.

My dad, almost 40 years ago, wanted to switch careers and be a firemen/EMT. He scored 2nd on a combination of all the tests among all the people that went through the program. The fire department was only hiring 2 firemen at the time. So if they were hiring the two best candidates, my dad would have been a firemen. However, because of affirmative action only one of the two new hires could be a white male. Since the one person that scored better than him was also a white male, my dad lost the job to a lower scoring minority.

About 24 years ago I started college. When it comes to engineering scholarships are typically all about math/science grades and math/science parts of the ACT (math if you only took SAT). My GPA  (math science) and ACT (math science) were actually perfect scores (straight As in grades, 36s on math/science). It earned me a full tuition paid scholarship for engineering. An african american girl in my class (who was an amazing person, we were great friends, so this is nothing against her) didn't have the same grades or ACT scores. She had not only full tuition, but full room and board, plus a living stipend so she didn't have to work through school. I had to work 2 and 3 part time jobs to have spending money. She even thought it was appalling that she got a lot more than I did scholarship wise. I personally told her that she needed it (she also was a single mother). Even though I also needed it (had a wife and kid by the time I graduated). So she got extra scholarships not based on merit, but based on the color of her skin vs mine. 

If you don't believe there is discrimination out there against Caucasian males, then you aren't paying much attention.

And lets not even start on the false sexual assault accusations that end a college kids career just based on the statement of the female. No evidence needed. 

My ATM password is 1600 - same as my SAT score.  I put 42 lbs of pressure in my tire - like my 4.2 GPA in HS.  My favorite steam room temperature is 142, same as my IQ.

posted by jmog

I will give 2 examples, 1 from my dad 40 years ago, and one from me 20 years ago.

My dad, almost 40 years ago, wanted to switch careers and be a firemen/EMT. He scored 2nd on a combination of all the tests among all the people that went through the program. The fire department was only hiring 2 firemen at the time. So if they were hiring the two best candidates, my dad would have been a firemen. However, because of affirmative action only one of the two new hires could be a white male. Since the one person that scored better than him was also a white male, my dad lost the job to a lower scoring minority.

About 24 years ago I started college. When it comes to engineering scholarships are typically all about math/science grades and math/science parts of the ACT (math if you only took SAT). My GPA  (math science) and ACT (math science) were actually perfect scores (straight As in grades, 36s on math/science). It earned me a full tuition paid scholarship for engineering. An african american girl in my class (who was an amazing person, we were great friends, so this is nothing against her) didn't have the same grades or ACT scores. She had not only full tuition, but full room and board, plus a living stipend so she didn't have to work through school. I had to work 2 and 3 part time jobs to have spending money. She even thought it was appalling that she got a lot more than I did scholarship wise. I personally told her that she needed it (she also was a single mother). Even though I also needed it (had a wife and kid by the time I graduated). So she got extra scholarships not based on merit, but based on the color of her skin vs mine. 

If you don't believe there is discrimination out there against Caucasian males, then you aren't paying much attention.

And lets not even start on the false sexual assault accusations that end a college kids career just based on the statement of the female. No evidence needed. 

Ohhh we are doing story time. Ok I have some. Although, citing something 40 years ago and 20 years ago is not really relevant to today, but hey I understand. 

I grew up in Southern Ohio and as a white male from the Appalachian area, I was able to receive some additional Pell grants to head to Ohio State.  If I did not have those programs, I would have had more student debt. I also had to work close to a full time job through college. So, there is one example as a white male, I was able to use a program. Granted it was regional, it was still great and useful. I'll also note the Pell grant has been gutted over the years where it is largely ineffective. 

I'll cite some recent examples where my wife had some let's say issues that as a white male, I do not have to put up with. 

1. Name change. My wife did not take my last name and it was for one big reason: Her professional license and her family business. If my wife changed her name to mine, she would have had to reapply in Ohio for her professional business and also change every form to do it. Also, she is the legal next in line to take over the family business, and the state would have had her go through extra steps if she would have changed her name. So, it was easier for her to not change her name. As a male, I never had to even think of that. 

2. Legal documents. We just recently closed on a house. Guess what, on all the legal documents, the man's name and title is listed first and is given preference over the woman. Even if the wife is the breadwinner in the household.  I had to sign off first or was given the default option.

There are other legal documents and issues over the years we have noticed that as well. 

As my wife says in jest sometimes, it is because you are a man it is easier. We are having the same issues as we move over license, title and car tags. 

3. Name change example number 2. My mom has kept her married name for years, even after divorcing my biological father in the 80s. She could never change her name back growing up because the state of Ohio required both parties to sign off on her changing her name back. That law changed some years ago and so she was able to finally change her name back. I'll also note it was a pain the ass for her to do that. Again, something as a male, I never have to deal with. 

I think there is bias of all sorts in the system, and there are even examples where yes it does include white men, but to dismiss any of them I think is a little short sighted. The saying of you don't know a peron's perspective until you walk in their shoes applies here. 

posted by ptown_trojans_1

Ohhh we are doing story time. Ok I have some. Although, citing something 40 years ago and 20 years ago is not really relevant to today, but hey I understand. 

I grew up in Southern Ohio and as a white male from the Appalachian area, I was able to receive some additional Pell grants to head to Ohio State.  If I did not have those programs, I would have had more student debt. I also had to work close to a full time job through college. So, there is one example as a white male, I was able to use a program. Granted it was regional, it was still great and useful. I'll also note the Pell grant has been gutted over the years where it is largely ineffective. 

I'll cite some recent examples where my wife had some let's say issues that as a white male, I do not have to put up with. 

1. Name change. My wife did not take my last name and it was for one big reason: Her professional license and her family business. If my wife changed her name to mine, she would have had to reapply in Ohio for her professional business and also change every form to do it. Also, she is the legal next in line to take over the family business, and the state would have had her go through extra steps if she would have changed her name. So, it was easier for her to not change her name. As a male, I never had to even think of that. 

2. Legal documents. We just recently closed on a house. Guess what, on all the legal documents, the man's name and title is listed first and is given preference over the woman. Even if the wife is the breadwinner in the household.  I had to sign off first or was given the default option.

There are other legal documents and issues over the years we have noticed that as well. 

As my wife says in jest sometimes, it is because you are a man it is easier. We are having the same issues as we move over license, title and car tags. 

3. Name change example number 2. My mom has kept her married name for years, even after divorcing my biological father in the 80s. She could never change her name back growing up because the state of Ohio required both parties to sign off on her changing her name back. That law changed some years ago and so she was able to finally change her name back. I'll also note it was a pain the ass for her to do that. Again, something as a male, I never have to deal with. 

I think there is bias of all sorts in the system, and there are even examples where yes it does include white men, but to dismiss any of them I think is a little short sighted. The saying of you don't know a peron's perspective until you walk in their shoes applies here. 

1. Your main example was because of where you lived, not because you were white. So your story has nothing to do with race.

2. No one is saying that there aren't situations and instances of discrimination against women out there. Crap, all you need to do is look at how freaking difficult it is for any woman who has ever been married and divorced, name changed, etc to get the new license. You have to have your most recent license, birth certificate, marriage license, divorce documents, etc. A man just has to have his license and birth certificate.

3. We were just pointing out Fab's "lol-ing at white male discrimination" comment and pointing out that is absolutely happens to white males as well.

posted by jmog

1. Your main example was because of where you lived, not because you were white. So your story has nothing to do with race.

2. No one is saying that there aren't situations and instances of discrimination against women out there. Crap, all you need to do is look at how freaking difficult it is for any woman who has ever been married and divorced, name changed, etc to get the new license. You have to have your most recent license, birth certificate, marriage license, divorce documents, etc. A man just has to have his license and birth certificate.

3. We were just pointing out Fab's "lol-ing at white male discrimination" comment and pointing out that is absolutely happens to white males as well.

Oh I have some good race stories too. I grew up in a majority white part of the state, my sister is mixed, and my step father is black. I was called N lover a lot growing up. Also, I've noticed how my sister, as mixed, is treated differently than me numerous occasions throughout my life to today. 

My overall point is we all deal with various forms of discrimination but at least in my experience, white males have not experienced as much as other groups. 

posted by jmog

3. We were just pointing out Fab's "lol-ing at white male discrimination" comment and pointing out that is absolutely happens to white males as well.

Cool. I'm still going to laugh at a white male saying it's not a big deal to have our first female VP in 245 years. It is a big deal. And I'm going to laugh when he says he's experienced more discrimination than women. White males in America have had it easier than anyone else BY FAR, so yes, those statements are hilarious to me. 

I like white males. I'm married to one. All things considered, he's had an easy, carefree life. He knows that, and would never claim he's faced more discrimination than a woman or a POC.

I'm well aware that most of the dudes on this site think my opinions are wrong and/or dumb. I don't really care. Been dealing with that since I was 6. 🤷🏼‍♀️

posted by jmog

I will give 2 examples, 1 from my dad 40 years ago, and one from me 20 years ago.

My dad, almost 40 years ago, wanted to switch careers and be a firemen/EMT. He scored 2nd on a combination of all the tests among all the people that went through the program. The fire department was only hiring 2 firemen at the time. So if they were hiring the two best candidates, my dad would have been a firemen. However, because of affirmative action only one of the two new hires could be a white male. Since the one person that scored better than him was also a white male, my dad lost the job to a lower scoring minority.

About 24 years ago I started college. When it comes to engineering scholarships are typically all about math/science grades and math/science parts of the ACT (math if you only took SAT). My GPA  (math science) and ACT (math science) were actually perfect scores (straight As in grades, 36s on math/science). It earned me a full tuition paid scholarship for engineering. An african american girl in my class (who was an amazing person, we were great friends, so this is nothing against her) didn't have the same grades or ACT scores. She had not only full tuition, but full room and board, plus a living stipend so she didn't have to work through school. I had to work 2 and 3 part time jobs to have spending money. She even thought it was appalling that she got a lot more than I did scholarship wise. I personally told her that she needed it (she also was a single mother). Even though I also needed it (had a wife and kid by the time I graduated). So she got extra scholarships not based on merit, but based on the color of her skin vs mine. 

If you don't believe there is discrimination out there against Caucasian males, then you aren't paying much attention.

And lets not even start on the false sexual assault accusations that end a college kids career just based on the statement of the female. No evidence needed. 

I’ll try to stay on topic here. LOL

The pipefitters' union @battleground_ua is mad that @JoeBiden killed Keystone XL and, with it, tens of thousands of jobs. (https://t.co/8w37fKTsV9)

The union endorsed Biden for president. (https://t.co/q2G5TBTaXs)

Biden has questions to answer. But so does the union leadership.

— Joel Pollak (@joelpollak) January 21, 2021

posted by iclfan2

I’ll try to stay on topic here. LOL

The pipefitters' union @battleground_ua is mad that @JoeBiden killed Keystone XL and, with it, tens of thousands of jobs. (https://t.co/8w37fKTsV9)

The union endorsed Biden for president. (https://t.co/q2G5TBTaXs)

Biden has questions to answer. But so does the union leadership.

— Joel Pollak (@joelpollak) January 21, 2021

Yeah let me say (as the Biden supporter on here apparently), that killing the pipeline completely is dumb. There does need to be a pipeline there eventually as it is safer than the current method of rail cars. The location does need to moved, but not killed totally. 

Yo PTOWN...did you get that Appalachian grant for OSU?!

posted by ptown_trojans_1

Yeah let me say (as the Biden supporter on here apparently), that killing the pipeline completely is dumb. There does need to be a pipeline there eventually as it is safer than the current method of rail cars. The location does need to moved, but not killed totally. 

I also voted for Biden (I wasn't excited about it, but I felt it was the lesser of 2 evils). The pipeline change is pure politics. He is just doing the opposite of Trump. I wish that he would do what is in the best interest of the country and keep the pipeline.

posted by Automatik

Yo PTOWN...did you get that Appalachian grant for OSU?!

Yup. 

posted by ptown_trojans_1

Oh I have some good race stories too. I grew up in a majority white part of the state, my sister is mixed, and my step father is black. I was called N lover a lot growing up. Also, I've noticed how my sister, as mixed, is treated differently than me numerous occasions throughout my life to today. 

My overall point is we all deal with various forms of discrimination but at least in my experience, white makes have not experienced as much as other groups. 

Last I checked, I wasn't, nor anyone else, saying that people of color or women don't face discrimination. We were just pointing out the hypocrisy of Fab's "lol-ing at white male discrimination".

I don't think I would ever laugh at anyone else's bad things that have happened in their life or when they were discriminated against, but maybe that's just me.

posted by geeblock
u hate anecdotal evidence tho

Affirmative Action is a government program that directly discriminates against people based on their skin color (in this case white). That isn't anecdotal when its codified policy. 

Nice try though.

posted by Fab4Runner

Cool. I'm still going to laugh at a white male saying it's not a big deal to have our first female VP in 245 years. It is a big deal. And I'm going to laugh when he says he's experienced more discrimination than women. White males in America have had it easier than anyone else BY FAR, so yes, those statements are hilarious to me. 

I like white males. I'm married to one. All things considered, he's had an easy, carefree life. He knows that, and would never claim he's faced more discrimination than a woman or a POC.

I'm well aware that most of the dudes on this site think my opinions are wrong and/or dumb. I don't really care. Been dealing with that since I was 6. 🤷🏼‍♀️

Here you go again. If you are going to attribute something to me (or anyone else) get it right. I never once said it wasn't a big deal. End of story. I don't need to elaborate on that anymore.

Furthermore, everything I mentioned was from my wife. She brought it up, not me. I passed it on, which is what she's felt and seen in her professional career. She has every right to feel that way, especially from what she's experienced either personally or through colleagues.

People think your opinions are wrong because you've read and attributed things completely wrong numerous times. This is probably where I am "man-splaining" to you, or so you'd probably claim.

posted by OSH

Here you go again. If you are going to attribute something to me (or anyone else) get it right. I never once said it wasn't a big deal. End of story. I don't need to elaborate on that anymore.

Furthermore, everything I mentioned was from my wife. She brought it up, not me. I passed it on, which is what she's felt and seen in her professional career. She has every right to feel that way, especially from what she's experienced either personally or through colleagues.

People think your opinions are wrong because you've read and attributed things completely wrong numerous times. This is probably where I am "man-splaining" to you, or so you'd probably claim.

So you disagree with your wife saying that a female VP bringing so much to females is absurd?