posted by jmog

1. She spent the last 4 years saying Trump was not legitimate, so you really shouldn't use her as a high horse.

2. The Dems have done "this" before, or did you forget Gore back in 2000? 

3. Is there some fraud? Probably, enough to truly change the election? Most likely not. However, is there an issue with checking and double checking? I mean its actually not the norm to know the winner the night of the election because of things like this. Biden will be President, no reason not to verify everything first. 

4. It is hilarious for you to act like democrats have not in the past, and would not do the same thing given their actual history, especially over the last 4 years. Come back to reality.

1. I was just saying she lost by less numbers than Trump did this year. Chill. 

2. Yes, I do remember 2000 or did you not see my Sore Loserman pic to Quaker? In 2000 it was also just one state, and under a 1,000 votes, not multiple states with 10,000 plus vote difference. 

3. Yes, there is a process to checking and double checking, and that is what they are doing state by state, just like every election year.  Hence, yeah of the lawsuits are getting thrown out as the judges are not finding any evidence to support the claims by Trump. 

4. Do you really think Dems would be acting like Trump is right now? I do not. If so, why did they not in 2016, when the numbers were closer was my point? Why did Obama not say, well we need to wait until the state's certify the election? He did not. Did he block the GSA was talking to Trump? No.  

You can at least acknowledge Trump is acting like a sore loser and not accepting reality. 

posted by jmog

For future reference, the popular vote doesn't mean anything for POTUS elections. Hope this helps.

It does not sure. But, George Bush in 2004 is the only Republican since 1988 to get a majority of the country to vote for them.

The EC is a funky system for sure, and it is our system, but you have to admit, Republicans are not the majority in this country. Now, they benefit from the small state/ big state system our founders set up as a great check to the power of the big states. 

I kinda cannot wait to defend the EC as I do every Thanksgiving with my liberal cousins. I wonder if their opinions will change...

posted by ptown_trojans_1

Republicans are not the majority in this country.

posted by gut
Neither are the Democrats.

If you go by the House and the popular vote...yes they are. 

posted by ptown_trojans_1

If you go by the House and the popular vote...yes they are. 

Well, that's a little different than "in this country".  The word you're looking for is "plurality"

posted by gut

Well, that's a little different than "in this country".  The word you're looking for is "plurality"

Really? Are you being that annoying? 

I am talking about voters in this country, as I have been talking about voters the whole time. 

posted by ptown_trojans_1

1. I was just saying she lost by less numbers than Trump did this year. Chill. 

2. Yes, I do remember 2000 or did you not see my Sore Loserman pic to Quaker? In 2000 it was also just one state, and under a 1,000 votes, not multiple states with 10,000 plus vote difference. 

3. Yes, there is a process to checking and double checking, and that is what they are doing state by state, just like every election year.  Hence, yeah of the lawsuits are getting thrown out as the judges are not finding any evidence to support the claims by Trump. 

4. Do you really think Dems would be acting like Trump is right now? I do not. If so, why did they not in 2016, when the numbers were closer was my point? Why did Obama not say, well we need to wait until the state's certify the election? He did not. Did he block the GSA was talking to Trump? No.  

You can at least acknowledge Trump is acting like a sore loser and not accepting reality. 

1. Go back and read what you said. You said she could have pulled this stuff and she didn’t. Yet her and the dems in office tried for 4 years to get him out. So no, they never accepted a duly elected President.

2. Trump is acting like a sore loser. But you believing the dems have been any better is hilariously wrong. Have you been in a coma for the last 4 years? That would be the only way you could keep touting the dems as the bastions of diplomacy who always accept the duly elected R President. Because, if you were awake over the last 4 years you would know that never happened. 

posted by ptown_trojans_1

If you go by the House and the popular vote...yes they are. 

Gut’s right, you are looking for plurality not majority. I also believe the true plurality are independents last I checked, neither Ds nor Rs.

Yeah, I also think that the majority of the people aren't loyal to D or R. They'll just vote for lesser of evils, if there is such a thing. 

I'm currently trying to brainwash my older family to not be afraid to vote 3rd party. I say brainwash because that's the sort of effort it will take. I need new pledges to this fledgling cult of mine!

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/michigan-gop-election-checkers-rescind-certify-vote-claim-dems-bullied-them

After being harassed and labeled racists, the GOP members of the board have rescinded their certification vote -- amen.  Maybe the extent of the Wayne county fraud will be revealed and MI goes back to Trump.  Similar situation in WI and GA.......may be enough to turn things around. 

We'll see.  Shame the major election integrity problems ALWAYS emanate from a few major democrat strongholds/counties, every single time.

posted by CenterBHSFan

Yeah, I also think that the majority of the people aren't loyal to D or R. They'll just vote for lesser of evils, if there is such a thing. 

I'm currently trying to brainwash my older family to not be afraid to vote 3rd party. I say brainwash because that's the sort of effort it will take. I need new pledges to this fledgling cult of mine!

One of the first things for them to get past is the idea that they're "wasting their vote". It's their vote and no one else's opinion means shit.

posted by queencitybuckeye

One of the first things for them to get past is the idea that they're "wasting their vote". It's their vote and no one else's opinion means shit.

Most important is to get them on the debate stage/equal time from media, imo. Instead of the moving the goalposts for qualifying for those things.

posted by QuakerOats

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/michigan-gop-election-checkers-rescind-certify-vote-claim-dems-bullied-them

After being harassed and labeled racists, the GOP members of the board have rescinded their certification vote -- amen.  Maybe the extent of the Wayne county fraud will be revealed and MI goes back to Trump.  Similar situation in WI and GA.......may be enough to turn things around. 

We'll see.  Shame the major election integrity problems ALWAYS emanate from a few major democrat strongholds/counties, every single time.

posted by kizer permanente
You’re gonna ignore the fact that they changed their mind after Trump called them personally to tell them to lol. Sounds like a really honorable person you support. 

Maybe I misread the article, but that doesn't appear to be what happened at all. They changed their minds, told everyone they were changing their minds because the state changed its mind about doing an audit, and Trump called them between their statement and then signing an affidavit about their reason for changing their minds.

https://apnews.com/article/donald-trump-targets-vote-certification-29da6aac9cc41e47f3095855e7af7031

Trump reached out to the canvassers, Monica Palmer and William Hartmann, on Tuesday evening after the revised vote to express gratitude for their support. Then, on Wednesday, Palmer and Hartmann signed affidavits saying they believe the county vote “should not be certified.”

posted by jmog

1. Go back and read what you said. You said she could have pulled this stuff and she didn’t. Yet her and the dems in office tried for 4 years to get him out. So no, they never accepted a duly elected President.

2. Trump is acting like a sore loser. But you believing the dems have been any better is hilariously wrong. Have you been in a coma for the last 4 years? That would be the only way you could keep touting the dems as the bastions of diplomacy who always accept the duly elected R President. Because, if you were awake over the last 4 years you would know that never happened. 

We are talking past each other, which I think has happens to me a lot of here the last few months. You seem to be equating what Trump is doing to what Clinton and the Dems did in 2016, but that is not right at all. The correct comparison would be if Clinton did the same thing that Trump is doing now with lawsuits and if Obama said to hold on and wait until everything is certified. Sure, Clinton and the Dems did blame Russia, but they also said that Trump won the actual election, that the numbers were legit. They did not question the vote total. It is not a fair comparison at all. 

posted by jmog

Gut’s right, you are looking for plurality not majority. I also believe the true plurality are independents last I checked, neither Ds nor Rs.

Again, we are talking completely different things. 

If you take the number of actual federal votes taken, as in people that voted, on a national federal level that includes the Presidential popular vote, and the House vote, the country is more Dem. By pure voters. 

If you add in state houses and governors, it tilts back to the Republicans as they have voters that favor Republicans. 

If you take the total population of voters and nonvoters, then yeah, the country is more to the right and independent. 

I was referring to the straight federal voters that pick the President and House. 

posted by jmog

Maybe I misread the article, but that doesn't appear to be what happened at all. They changed their minds, told everyone they were changing their minds because the state changed its mind about doing an audit, and Trump called them between their statement and then signing an affidavit about their reason for changing their minds.

Even setting aside that, the state of Michigan has not found any irregularities that merit the audit, so they dropped it. Court case after court case has been dismissed because there is no fraud. None. 

Setting that aside, you have to admit, it is pretty damn bad for the President to call these guys and invite them to the White House. 

posted by QuakerOats

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/michigan-gop-election-checkers-rescind-certify-vote-claim-dems-bullied-them

After being harassed and labeled racists, the GOP members of the board have rescinded their certification vote -- amen.  Maybe the extent of the Wayne county fraud will be revealed and MI goes back to Trump.  Similar situation in WI and GA.......may be enough to turn things around. 

We'll see.  Shame the major election integrity problems ALWAYS emanate from a few major democrat strongholds/counties, every single time.

You are delusional. 

Show me the evidence of massive voter fraud in the courts? 

posted by ptown_trojans_1

Even setting aside that, the state of Michigan has not found any irregularities that merit the audit, so they dropped it. Court case after court case has been dismissed because there is no fraud. None. 

Setting that aside, you have to admit, it is pretty damn bad for the President to call these guys and invite them to the White House. 

False; the Trump campaign has only filed 3 lawsuits and only one was dropped and that was only because they got the relief they wanted.

All other cases were filed by individuals or other parties and those that have been dropped were due to lack of standing, in that the suits were filed before the election, not after. 

Real facts still matter.

posted by ptown_trojans_1

You are delusional. 

Show me the evidence of massive voter fraud in the courts? 

That is what will be occurring, the fraud shown to the court, not to the media, per the statements made today.

posted by kizer permanente

https://apnews.com/article/donald-trump-targets-vote-certification-29da6aac9cc41e47f3095855e7af7031

Trump reached out to the canvassers, Monica Palmer and William Hartmann, on Tuesday evening after the revised vote to express gratitude for their support. Then, on Wednesday, Palmer and Hartmann signed affidavits saying they believe the county vote “should not be certified.”

Again, once the state said they were not going to audit it and also stated the canvass board essentially could not make their vote conditional on the audit, they rescinded their vote.  The change occurred because of the state's actions after the vote, not because of Trump's call .....although you and the liberal media want to make it look that way.   Trump has quite often made supportive calls to people who were taking an undeserved political beating or went out on a limb to do the right thing for the party (i.e. Jane Timken and others ousting the disgraced Matt Borges from the Ohio GOP leadership). 

posted by QuakerOats

That is what will be occurring, the fraud shown to the court, not to the media, per the statements made today.

If you and Rudy's bad hair product says so....

posted by kizer permanente

https://apnews.com/article/donald-trump-targets-vote-certification-29da6aac9cc41e47f3095855e7af7031

Trump reached out to the canvassers, Monica Palmer and William Hartmann, on Tuesday evening after the revised vote to express gratitude for their support. Then, on Wednesday, Palmer and Hartmann signed affidavits saying they believe the county vote “should not be certified.”

So he thanked them after they changed their vote. What am I missing. They didn’t change it after he called them.

posted by ptown_trojans_1

We are talking past each other, which I think has happens to me a lot of here the last few months. You seem to be equating what Trump is doing to what Clinton and the Dems did in 2016, but that is not right at all. The correct comparison would be if Clinton did the same thing that Trump is doing now with lawsuits and if Obama said to hold on and wait until everything is certified. Sure, Clinton and the Dems did blame Russia, but they also said that Trump won the actual election, that the numbers were legit. They did not question the vote total. It is not a fair comparison at all. 

You are now arguing semantics to sound right and moving the goalposts.