Protests, Riots, Police trashiness cont.

SportsAndLady Senior Member
39,070 posts 24 reps Joined Nov 2009
Mon, Jun 15, 2020 12:28 PM
posted by Laley23

I’m of the notion that if you aren’t an idiot, you’ll be fine. Don’t break the law? You don’t die.

That said, it’s naive to sit there and say these situations would play out the same way if you substitute a white person. They absolutely don’t, and that’s the problem I have. And the problem most AA are fighting for. It’s not excusing the actions or saying they shouldn’t be punished. But if I’m the guy taking a swing at a cop and taking his taser my guess is I get tackled about 15 seconds later and released the next morning. Then plead down to a misdemeanor take a drunk class and have it off my record within 5 years. 

Yeah, look at Baker Mayfield. He ran from a cop, got tackled, arrested, released, and was the #1 overall pick. 
 

jmog Senior Member
7,737 posts 52 reps Joined Nov 2009
Mon, Jun 15, 2020 1:22 PM
posted by SportsAndLady

Some of you guys are complete fucking morons. Saying this wasn’t murder is insane. The cops should absolutely be charged with murder. When are we going to get past the era of cops shooting unarmed (lethal weapons) people to their death, and people arguing that the cops were in the right? Fucks sake. 

Has to be trolling. 

jmog Senior Member
7,737 posts 52 reps Joined Nov 2009
Mon, Jun 15, 2020 1:24 PM
posted by SportsAndLady

You have a son. Your sons 18, goes and gets drunk at a bar and gets too drunk. Takes a swing at a cop, cop shoots him dead. I walk up to you say “your son player a stupid game, and he won a stupid prize. If he wasn’t a fuck-up, maybe he’d be alive”

Just trying to put it into perspective for you, because you’ll never agree with a side that involves a black person. 

Nice try at straw man but you failed. Taking a swing and what happened in this video are VASTLY different things. And anyone with 2 brain cells realize that. 

SportsAndLady Senior Member
39,070 posts 24 reps Joined Nov 2009
Mon, Jun 15, 2020 1:43 PM
posted by jmog

Nice try at straw man but you failed. Taking a swing and what happened in this video are VASTLY different things. And anyone with 2 brain cells realize that. 

Lol VASTLY! 
Okay jmog

justincredible Honorable Admin
37,969 posts 250 reps Joined Nov 2009
Mon, Jun 15, 2020 1:55 PM

I mean, he's not wrong.

SportsAndLady Senior Member
39,070 posts 24 reps Joined Nov 2009
Mon, Jun 15, 2020 1:59 PM

I must not be as smart as the almighty jmog and justin. Damnit I wish I had two brain cells! 

justincredible Honorable Admin
37,969 posts 250 reps Joined Nov 2009
Mon, Jun 15, 2020 2:10 PM
posted by SportsAndLady

I must not be as smart as the almighty jmog and justin. Damnit I wish I had two brain cells! 


gut Senior Member
18,369 posts 117 reps Joined Nov 2009
Mon, Jun 15, 2020 2:10 PM
posted by queencitybuckeye

Your case cite does not say in any way that life must be threatened. That is not the standard, as I stated before. The standard is life or great bodily harm. Shooting a taser at someone is an attempt to do the latter. Again, you're hanging your hat on the irrelevant fact that he was running away when what matters is that he was able to shoot at the officer while doing so and came reasonably close to a hit in spite of any level of intoxication.

Try reading again, it says it plain as day.  In one of the rulings cited “The use of deadly force to prevent the escape of all felony suspects, whatever the circumstances, is constitutionally unreasonable,” said the 6-3 decision, written by Justice Byron White. "  Which pretty much only leaves life being threatened (as perceived by a "reasonable" cop) as the only justifiable use of force.  "Great bodily harm" is a distinction without a difference, because that would normally be life threatening.

And I "hang my hat" on the taser not being lethal force or causing serious injury because the police do.  That's why they use tasers in the first place.

Non-lethal weapon, running away....shot twice in the back.  That cop is fucked, unless maybe he gets a couple of racists on his jury.

SportsAndLady Senior Member
39,070 posts 24 reps Joined Nov 2009
Mon, Jun 15, 2020 2:14 PM
posted by gut

Try reading again, it says it plain as day.  In one of the rulings cited “The use of deadly force to prevent the escape of all felony suspects, whatever the circumstances, is constitutionally unreasonable,” said the 6-3 decision, written by Justice Byron White. "  Which pretty much only leaves life being threatened (as perceived by a "reasonable" cop) as the only justifiable use of force.  "Great bodily harm" is a distinction without a difference, because that would normally be life threatening.

And I "hang my hat" on the taser not being lethal force or causing serious injury because the police do.  That's why they use tasers in the first place.

Non-lethal weapon, running away....shot twice in the back.  That cop is fucked, unless maybe he gets a couple of racists on his jury.

When a cop shoots and kills a black person, theres a portion of the population that will never ever admit the cop did anything wrong (“play stupid games win stupid prizes duurrrrrr”). Unfortunately we have a few of those on this site. 

gut Senior Member
18,369 posts 117 reps Joined Nov 2009
Mon, Jun 15, 2020 2:23 PM
posted by Laley23

That said, it’s naive to sit there and say these situations would play out the same way if you substitute a white person. They absolutely don’t, and that’s the problem I have. And the problem most AA are fighting for.

That's a false narrative.  The stats are far from perfect, but FBI statistics show an approximately equal number of unarmed whites, blacks and hispanics killed by cops each year.  Pretty much in-line with the percentage of arrests.  You can talk about overpolicing and other socioeconomic factors, but cops aren't targeting or hunting blacks. 

Murders charged as hate crimes total about 15 per year.  Unless you think racists join the police force to do it legally, this false narrative needs to stop because, as Justin mentioned, it causes some people to think they need to fight for their life when confronted by police.

And wrongful death by police is still very rare.  Estimates I've seen are about 50-100 people a year.  Maybe it's actually a few hundred, but that's out of 10M arrests and tens of millions more interactions every year.

Twice as many white people are killed by police each year as blacks.  Studies have shown cops are LESS likely to shoot black suspects, probably because of all the attention in recent years.

Also, this DOES happen to white people, the media just doesn't generally care to report it.  A few years ago, same thing happened to George Floyd happened to a white guy in Dallas.  And I remember a white woman who called cops about a domestic dispute at her neighbors get shot and killed in her pajamas.  I think that story got a byline for a few hours during CNN's non-stop coverage of Michael Brown.

justincredible Honorable Admin
37,969 posts 250 reps Joined Nov 2009
Mon, Jun 15, 2020 2:32 PM

I think the last one you mentioned was Minneapolis as well, right?

And the one in Dallas was pretty rough to watch as the cops joked and laughed as the guy begged them to stop.

gut Senior Member
18,369 posts 117 reps Joined Nov 2009
Mon, Jun 15, 2020 2:42 PM
posted by justincredible

I think the last one you mentioned was Minneapolis as well, right?

And the one in Dallas was pretty rough to watch as the cops joked and laughed as the guy begged them to stop.

I think that's right.  Minneapolis probably should disband the police force.  How do you end-up shooting an unarmed white woman in her pajamas?

justincredible Honorable Admin
37,969 posts 250 reps Joined Nov 2009
queencitybuckeye Senior Member
8,068 posts 121 reps Joined Nov 2009
Mon, Jun 15, 2020 3:16 PM
posted by gutAnd I "hang my hat" on the taser not being lethal force or causing serious injury because the police do.  That's why they use tasers in the first place.

And you're wrong. They do consider it serious, right along side the other less than lethal weapons they have at their disposal.

queencitybuckeye Senior Member
8,068 posts 121 reps Joined Nov 2009
Mon, Jun 15, 2020 3:19 PM
posted by SportsAndLady

When a cop shoots and kills a black person, theres a portion of the population that will never ever admit the cop did anything wrong (“play stupid games win stupid prizes duurrrrrr”). Unfortunately we have a few of those on this site. 

What a great time we live in, when someone who disagrees with you can be called a racist behind the safety of a screen. Makes your life as a coward much easier.

geeblock Member
1,123 posts 0 reps Joined May 2018
Mon, Jun 15, 2020 3:23 PM

https://twitter.com/qasimrashid/status/1271990915985440768?s=21

didnt shoot this guy 

gut Senior Member
18,369 posts 117 reps Joined Nov 2009
Mon, Jun 15, 2020 3:24 PM
posted by queencitybuckeye

And you're wrong. They do consider it serious, right along side the other less than lethal weapons they have at their disposal.

So you agree it's considered a non-lethal weapon?

geeblock Member
1,123 posts 0 reps Joined May 2018
Mon, Jun 15, 2020 3:25 PM

Didn’t shoot this guy 

https://twitter.com/shijehi24/status/1271995533247148032?s=21

This guy stole tasers from both cops, fired the taser hitting one, did not get shot

https://amp.yorkdispatch.com/amp/4643886002?__twitter_impression=true

obviously these are anecdotal evidence and we could go back and forth all day with videos from each side. The point is that no they didn’t have to shoot him  

queencitybuckeye Senior Member
8,068 posts 121 reps Joined Nov 2009
Mon, Jun 15, 2020 3:28 PM
posted by gut

So you agree it's considered a non-lethal weapon?

Of course, and for at least the third time, lethal is not the standard for deadly force in self-defense situations. For cops or for you and me.

jmog Senior Member
7,737 posts 52 reps Joined Nov 2009
Mon, Jun 15, 2020 3:47 PM
posted by geeblock

https://twitter.com/qasimrashid/status/1271990915985440768?s=21

didnt shoot this guy 

The guy didn’t have a weapon until he got in his car. Cop would have been justified while the suspect was chasing him (threat to bodily harm/stand your ground) or when he was using his car as a weapon. 
 

Just because he wasn’t shot, doesn’t make it evidence that the guy in Atlanta shouldn’t have been. 

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