Protests, Riots, Police trashiness cont.

iclfan2 Reppin' the 330/216/843
9,465 posts 98 reps Joined Nov 2009
Sun, Jun 14, 2020 7:31 PM
posted by SportsAndLady

You have a son. Your sons 18, goes and gets drunk at a bar and gets too drunk. Takes a swing at a cop, cop shoots him dead. I walk up to you say “your son player a stupid game, and he won a stupid prize. If he wasn’t a fuck-up, maybe he’d be alive”

Just trying to put it into perspective for you, because you’ll never agree with a side that involves a black person. 

You pretending race was an issue here? He stole a taser and shot it at the cops. If I had a son I’d say you’re a giant fuck up. That isn’t even close to what actually happened. I’ve been drunk, talked to cops, and never thought I should beat them and try to steal their taser and then run away and shoot it at them. I would never raise a kid (27 btw) to be such a dumb fuck. 

gut Senior Member
18,369 posts 115 reps Joined Nov 2009
Sun, Jun 14, 2020 8:03 PM
posted by queencitybuckeye

He didn't "threaten", he attempted to shoot the cop with the taser..

Drunk as piss with a taser from 20 feet - might as well have been a kid with a squirt gun.  Oh wait.....

No one's life was immediately threatened, and a taser is considered a non-lethal weapon.  That shooting is absolutely unjustifiable.

 

https://www.americanbar.org/news/abanews/publications/youraba/2018/november-2018/legal-fact-check--what-is-the-legal-standard-for-deadly-force-in/

Four years later in Graham v. Connor, the court held that the question of whether an officer used excessive force “requires careful attention to the facts and circumstances of each particular case, including the severity of the crime at issue, whether the suspect poses an immediate threat to the safety of the officers or others, and whether he is actively resisting arrest or attempting to evade arrest by flight.”

The 9-0 decision found the “reasonableness of a particular use of force must be judged from the perspective of a reasonable officer on the scene, and its calculus must embody an allowance for the fact that police officers are often forced to make split-second decisions about the amount of force necessary in a particular situation.”

SportsAndLady Senior Member
39,070 posts 24 reps Joined Nov 2009
Sun, Jun 14, 2020 8:29 PM
posted by iclfan2

You pretending race was an issue here? He stole a taser and shot it at the cops. If I had a son I’d say you’re a giant fuck up. That isn’t even close to what actually happened. I’ve been drunk, talked to cops, and never thought I should beat them and try to steal their taser and then run away and shoot it at them. I would never raise a kid (27 btw) to be such a dumb fuck. 

Yeah, keep trying to convince yourself you don’t see race in these issues.

 

And you’re of course  missing the point with the hypothetical son. The point is someone doesn’t deserve to die if they make one mistake with a police officer (assuming they aren’t shooting at or attempting to murder the cop). If they get gunned down for making a non-lethal mistake, that’s murder by the police officer. 

ernest_t_bass 12th Son of the Lama
26,698 posts 204 reps Joined Nov 2009
Sun, Jun 14, 2020 10:24 PM
posted by SportsAndLady

Lol, we know you don’t care that unarmed black people are being murdered by police. We know. 
also, is OJ Simpson not a murderer because of what jurors said? Dumbass. 

You forgot to call him fat.

ernest_t_bass 12th Son of the Lama
26,698 posts 204 reps Joined Nov 2009
Sun, Jun 14, 2020 10:25 PM
posted by SportsAndLady

You have a son. Your sons 18, goes and gets drunk at a bar and gets too drunk. Takes a swing at a cop, cop shoots him dead. I walk up to you say “your son player a stupid game, and he won a stupid prize. If he wasn’t a fuck-up, maybe he’d be alive”

I'd ask if YOU were drunk

sportchampps Senior Member
7,527 posts 36 reps Joined Nov 2009
Mon, Jun 15, 2020 1:08 AM
posted by SportsAndLady

Lol, we know you don’t care that unarmed black people are being murdered by police. We know. 
also, is OJ Simpson not a murderer because of what jurors said? Dumbass. 

Do you know how many unarmed black people were killed By police in 2019? The answer is 9. We have police who fuck up and we have police who are racist but the community has bigger problems. 

queencitybuckeye Senior Member
8,068 posts 120 reps Joined Nov 2009
Mon, Jun 15, 2020 6:59 AM
posted by gut

Drunk as piss with a taser from 20 feet - might as well have been a kid with a squirt gun.  Oh wait.....

No one's life was immediately threatened, and a taser is considered a non-lethal weapon.  That shooting is absolutely unjustifiable.

 

https://www.americanbar.org/news/abanews/publications/youraba/2018/november-2018/legal-fact-check--what-is-the-legal-standard-for-deadly-force-in/

Four years later in Graham v. Connor, the court held that the question of whether an officer used excessive force “requires careful attention to the facts and circumstances of each particular case, including the severity of the crime at issue, whether the suspect poses an immediate threat to the safety of the officers or others, and whether he is actively resisting arrest or attempting to evade arrest by flight.”

The 9-0 decision found the “reasonableness of a particular use of force must be judged from the perspective of a reasonable officer on the scene, and its calculus must embody an allowance for the fact that police officers are often forced to make split-second decisions about the amount of force necessary in a particular situation.”

Your case cite does not say in any way that life must be threatened. That is not the standard, as I stated before. The standard is life or great bodily harm. Shooting a taser at someone is an attempt to do the latter. Again, you're hanging your hat on the irrelevant fact that he was running away when what matters is that he was able to shoot at the officer while doing so and came reasonably close to a hit in spite of any level of intoxication.

queencitybuckeye Senior Member
8,068 posts 120 reps Joined Nov 2009
Mon, Jun 15, 2020 7:03 AM
posted by SportsAndLady

Yeah, keep trying to convince yourself you don’t see race in these issues.

 

And you’re of course  missing the point with the hypothetical son. The point is someone doesn’t deserve to die if they make one mistake with a police officer (assuming they aren’t shooting at or attempting to murder the cop). If they get gunned down for making a non-lethal mistake, that’s murder by the police officer. 

Categorizing taking a weapon away from a cop as "a mistake" definitely shows a bias here, but it isn't on the part of the officer.

like_that 1st Team All-PWN
29,228 posts 321 reps Joined Apr 2010
Mon, Jun 15, 2020 8:04 AM

It's not even about "play stupid games," at the end of a day a cop is going to do anything to keep himself alive if he/she feels threatened.  They would rather have their day in court than be dead.  It doesn't surprise me he ended up getting shot considering what happened leading up to getting shot.  Not even close to the same thing as what happened in Minneapolis.


With that being said, this all could have been avoided.  This is why I have said numerous times in the other thread to stop arresting people for non violent crimes.  At that point the dude was no longer a threat to anybody.  He was drunk and not operating his vehicle.  Give the dude a ticket and let him have his day in court.  Either give him a ride home, call a friend, or an uber (tack the cost onto his fine).  Done deal. 

SportsAndLady Senior Member
39,070 posts 24 reps Joined Nov 2009
Mon, Jun 15, 2020 8:37 AM
posted by queencitybuckeye

Categorizing taking a weapon away from a cop as "a mistake" definitely shows a bias here, but it isn't on the part of the officer.

He took a fucking taser. He was piss drunk, and there’s video of him talking to the cops before everything went down where he was clearly drunk but it was a “nice” conversation that you can clearly see there is no threat. The cops clearly didn’t need to start being aggressive with him, and he made a dumb mistake and fought back. I don’t think you deserve to die, and until people like you agree with that, nothing will change—we’ll continue to see cops murder citizens. Maybe you’re okay with that (which is just fucking weird), but the majority of people aren’t. 

like_that 1st Team All-PWN
29,228 posts 321 reps Joined Apr 2010
Mon, Jun 15, 2020 8:54 AM
posted by SportsAndLady

He took a fucking taser. He was piss drunk, and there’s video of him talking to the cops before everything went down where he was clearly drunk but it was a “nice” conversation that you can clearly see there is no threat. The cops clearly didn’t need to start being aggressive with him, and he made a dumb mistake and fought back. I don’t think you deserve to die, and until people like you agree with that, nothing will change—we’ll continue to see cops murder citizens. Maybe you’re okay with that (which is just fucking weird), but the majority of people aren’t. 

I just saw the video.  As I said above, just give him a ticket and get him home.  Let him deal with the problem when he sobers up the next day.  Zero reasons to put on cuffs at that point if our laws were written to prevent this type of shit. 

SportsAndLady Senior Member
39,070 posts 24 reps Joined Nov 2009
Mon, Jun 15, 2020 8:56 AM
posted by like_that

I just saw the video.  As I said above, just give him a ticket and get him home.  Let him deal with the problem when he sobers up the next day.  Zero reasons to put on cuffs at that point if our laws were written to prevent this type of shit. 

100% agree. 

geeblock Member
1,123 posts 0 reps Joined May 2018
Mon, Jun 15, 2020 8:57 AM
posted by iclfan2

The taser hadn’t been expelled. He stole the taser, beat the cops, ran, and then turned to shoot the taser at the cops, so not in the back. Play stupid games...

https://twitter.com/carpedonktum/status/1271975762191691776?s=21

Per the medical examiner the bullet holes were in his back from what I read 

BR1986FB Senior Member
27,923 posts 123 reps Joined Feb 2010
Mon, Jun 15, 2020 9:00 AM

Let me preface this with the fact I haven't watched the recent video. IMO, somewhere is our society it has become "ok" to resist the police or you are "disrespected." The way that I was brought up was to respect law enforcement and comply with them. If you don't there's a very good chance something bad is going to happen to you. Seems like there is now some sort mindset that when a cop confronts you there needs to be some sort of confrontation.

justincredible Honorable Admin
37,969 posts 247 reps Joined Nov 2009
Mon, Jun 15, 2020 9:09 AM

You don't have to go to jail to be arrested, as I found out at my bachelor party. You can be sent to the hospital, after being knocked unconscious by a cop, with your arrest papers in your pocket.

So, yes, the guy could have been taken home instead of cuffed. But, the act of being cuffed isn't necessarily aggressive behaviour by the cops. It's almost like there is a mindset that you will be killed by cops if you're a black man (not true outside of isolated incidents, obviously) that turned this into a self-fulfilling prophecy by thinking he HAD to fight them and run away to save his life. A truly shitty situation all around.

BR1986FB Senior Member
27,923 posts 123 reps Joined Feb 2010
Mon, Jun 15, 2020 9:17 AM
posted by justincredible

It's almost like there is a mindset that you will be killed by cops if you're a black man (not true outside of isolated incidents, obviously) that turned this into a self-fulfilling prophecy by thinking he HAD to fight them and run away to save his life. A truly shitty situation all around.

Well said. This is kind of what I was trying to say in my earlier post. 

like_that 1st Team All-PWN
29,228 posts 321 reps Joined Apr 2010
Mon, Jun 15, 2020 9:20 AM
posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

Agreed. It would have been great if that car had been towed, the guy transported home. We may have to change some laws around DUI to make sure that people don't get out of the offense because they were sent home, but that could be done. 

Yeah, thats why I said hand him a ticket and he can have his day in court when he sobers up.   Even then I would not have a law that would allow him to be thrown in jail.  He didn't harm anyway. Suspend his license and have him choose between a hefty fine or community service (or both). 

posted by justincredible

You don't have to go to jail to be arrested, as I found out at my bachelor party. You can be sent to the hospital, after being knocked unconscious by a cop, with your arrest papers in your pocket.

So, yes, the guy could have been taken home instead of cuffed. But, the act of being cuffed isn't necessarily aggressive behaviour by the cops. It's almost like there is a mindset that you will be killed by cops if you're a black man (not true outside of isolated incidents, obviously) that turned this into a self-fulfilling prophecy by thinking he HAD to fight them and run away to save his life. A truly shitty situation all around.

It's almost like this mentality is played up by a certain entity....

friendfromlowry Senior Member
7,778 posts 86 reps Joined Nov 2009
Mon, Jun 15, 2020 9:35 AM

https://www.businessinsider.com/san-francisco-police-will-no-longer-respond-non-criminal-calls-2020-6?amp

i think this is a potentially good start. 

justincredible Honorable Admin
37,969 posts 247 reps Joined Nov 2009
Mon, Jun 15, 2020 9:38 AM

Trump really needs to push for an end to the drug war. He won't, but he should.

33,369 posts 132 reps Joined Nov 2009
Mon, Jun 15, 2020 12:18 PM

I’m of the notion that if you aren’t an idiot, you’ll be fine. Don’t break the law? You don’t die.

That said, it’s naive to sit there and say these situations would play out the same way if you substitute a white person. They absolutely don’t, and that’s the problem I have. And the problem most AA are fighting for. It’s not excusing the actions or saying they shouldn’t be punished. But if I’m the guy taking a swing at a cop and taking his taser my guess is I get tackled about 15 seconds later and released the next morning. Then plead down to a misdemeanor take a drunk class and have it off my record within 5 years. 

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