Covid-19 discussion, continued...

posted by gut

I'm not sure they have much of a choice if local ordinances require masks.

There's also the question of potential liability that I don't think has been fully settled yet.  If one of their workers dies from Covid and they didn't take steps to ensure a safe workplace?

I think by the end of May all restrictions should be removed as everyone who wants the vaccine could have gotten it.

There is no way to prove where someone got the virus. That dead coworker could have shopped at a random store, visited with a cousin, or been coughed on by a homeless person (or all three). These types of cases will be very hard to prove. 

posted by brutus161

There is no way to prove where someone got the virus. That dead coworker could have shopped at a random store, visited with a cousin, or been coughed on by a homeless person (or all three). These types of cases will be very hard to prove. 

True, but successfully defending a lawsuit can be impossibly expensive.

posted by queencitybuckeye

True, but successfully defending a lawsuit can be impossibly expensive.

You both make good points.  I think the risk is probably confined to larger operations, and one where you might have a disproportionately large outbreak (like meatpacking) where logically at least some of those cases, and deaths, are a result of those working conditions.

Now meatpacking is a bad example because it was an essential business.  Ultimately I don't think we'll see many, if any, successful lawsuits.

posted by queencitybuckeye

True, but successfully defending a lawsuit can be impossibly expensive.

If someone were to really push one of these lawsuits, the defendant would definitely get help in paying legal fees. Mainly because a loss would set a precedence, and that would affect many many more businesses. 

posted by brutus161

If someone were to really push one of these lawsuits, the defendant would definitely get help in paying legal fees. Mainly because a loss would set a precedence, and that would affect many many more businesses. 

It may not be a total nuisance case if you have contact traces pinpointing your business as the source.

I'd imagine a business would have to be really negligent for half the jurors in a civil case to rule against them.  Then again, it's so political all it would probably take is for the owner to be a known Trump supporter.

posted by Fletch

My guess is 90% of public places want nothing to do with this.  It’s local health departments running around fining them.

That’s fine and I’m not disagreeing. But, and just my personal preference, I’d rather see these places just say “Look if you don’t wear a mask, we get in trouble, so do just do it.” I respect that much more than “wE dOnT cAre if you’re vaccinated.” There are already plenty of people out there discounting the vaccine saying we don’t know how effective they are, you can still spread mild cases, not everyone can get/has gotten it. And those people can fuck all the way off. 

posted by fengling

each time i heard how tons disappointment the king will be, it changed into like a river of spring water

Well said

posted by Ironman92

Well said

cc created a new account, it seems.

I guess I also thought as we approach month five of vaccinating people, we’d be further along with the CDC then it’s now safe for vaccinated people to riding public transportation and getting a haircut indoors but while still wearing a mask. 

posted by friendfromlowry

That’s fine and I’m not disagreeing. But, and just my personal preference, I’d rather see these places just say “Look if you don’t wear a mask, we get in trouble, so do just do it.” I respect that much more than “wE dOnT cAre if you’re vaccinated.” There are already plenty of people out there discounting the vaccine saying we don’t know how effective they are, you can still spread mild cases, not everyone can get/has gotten it. And those people can fuck all the way off. 

Amen

Moderna II yesterday ..............no discernable after-effects (at least yet). 

Oregon is shutting down bars and restaurants again this Friday. I can only imagine that will be the final nail in the coffin for the entire industry there.

— Chef Andrew Gruel (@ChefGruel) April 28, 2021

posted by QuakerOats

Moderna II yesterday ..............no discernable after-effects (at least yet). 

Good on you. Got my second today (Pfizer).  Hopefully tomorrow, I feel like you do today. 

posted by justincredible

Oregon is shutting down bars and restaurants again this Friday. I can only imagine that will be the final nail in the coffin for the entire industry there.

— Chef Andrew Gruel (@ChefGruel) April 28, 2021

Don’t understand the endgame here.  I guess science is different out there

posted by Fletch
Don’t understand the endgame here.  I guess science is different out there

Other than not wanting to appear political with prior heavy-handed lockdowns, my guess is maybe the more economic damage they can show from Covid the bigger piece of Biden giant stimulus pie they can get?

posted by Fletch
Don’t understand the endgame here.  I guess science is different out there

I feel really bad for small business owners. BUT, you get what you vote for. 

posted by justincredible

Oregon is shutting down bars and restaurants again this Friday. I can only imagine that will be the final nail in the coffin for the entire industry there.

— Chef Andrew Gruel (@ChefGruel) April 28, 2021

Mr Chef conveniently leaves out that it's only for a few counties, indoor only, and the outdoor limits doubled.

posted by bigorangebuck22

Mr Chef conveniently leaves out that it's only for a few counties, indoor only, and the outdoor limits doubled.

It's over a third of the counties in the state, and I'm going to guess it includes the most highly populated. What percentage of the overall population lives in the affected counties?

How many restaurants in those 15 counties don't have access to outdoor space?

3.6m of Oregon's 4.2m residents live in one of the 15 counties affected.

You're right. It's only a few counties.

Oregon's 7 day average is 3 deaths a day (and has been for weeks). This is completely unnecessary.