Covid-19 discussion, continued...

brutus161 The Navy Guy
1,688 posts 16 reps Joined Nov 2009
Tue, Apr 27, 2021 2:30 PM
posted by gut

I'm not sure they have much of a choice if local ordinances require masks.

There's also the question of potential liability that I don't think has been fully settled yet.  If one of their workers dies from Covid and they didn't take steps to ensure a safe workplace?

I think by the end of May all restrictions should be removed as everyone who wants the vaccine could have gotten it.

There is no way to prove where someone got the virus. That dead coworker could have shopped at a random store, visited with a cousin, or been coughed on by a homeless person (or all three). These types of cases will be very hard to prove. 

queencitybuckeye Senior Member
8,068 posts 113 reps Joined Nov 2009
Tue, Apr 27, 2021 2:40 PM
posted by brutus161

There is no way to prove where someone got the virus. That dead coworker could have shopped at a random store, visited with a cousin, or been coughed on by a homeless person (or all three). These types of cases will be very hard to prove. 

True, but successfully defending a lawsuit can be impossibly expensive.

gut Senior Member
18,369 posts 94 reps Joined Nov 2009
Tue, Apr 27, 2021 2:44 PM
posted by queencitybuckeye

True, but successfully defending a lawsuit can be impossibly expensive.

You both make good points.  I think the risk is probably confined to larger operations, and one where you might have a disproportionately large outbreak (like meatpacking) where logically at least some of those cases, and deaths, are a result of those working conditions.

Now meatpacking is a bad example because it was an essential business.  Ultimately I don't think we'll see many, if any, successful lawsuits.

brutus161 The Navy Guy
1,688 posts 16 reps Joined Nov 2009
Tue, Apr 27, 2021 2:49 PM
posted by queencitybuckeye

True, but successfully defending a lawsuit can be impossibly expensive.

If someone were to really push one of these lawsuits, the defendant would definitely get help in paying legal fees. Mainly because a loss would set a precedence, and that would affect many many more businesses. 

gut Senior Member
18,369 posts 94 reps Joined Nov 2009
Tue, Apr 27, 2021 2:57 PM
posted by brutus161

If someone were to really push one of these lawsuits, the defendant would definitely get help in paying legal fees. Mainly because a loss would set a precedence, and that would affect many many more businesses. 

It may not be a total nuisance case if you have contact traces pinpointing your business as the source.

I'd imagine a business would have to be really negligent for half the jurors in a civil case to rule against them.  Then again, it's so political all it would probably take is for the owner to be a known Trump supporter.

friendfromlowry Senior Member
7,778 posts 73 reps Joined Nov 2009
Tue, Apr 27, 2021 7:24 PM
posted by Fletch

My guess is 90% of public places want nothing to do with this.  It’s local health departments running around fining them.


That’s fine and I’m not disagreeing. But, and just my personal preference, I’d rather see these places just say “Look if you don’t wear a mask, we get in trouble, so do just do it.” I respect that much more than “wE dOnT cAre if you’re vaccinated.” There are already plenty of people out there discounting the vaccine saying we don’t know how effective they are, you can still spread mild cases, not everyone can get/has gotten it. And those people can fuck all the way off. 


Ironman92 Administrator
56,729 posts 143 reps Joined Nov 2009
Tue, Apr 27, 2021 10:45 PM
posted by fengling

each time i heard how tons disappointment the king will be, it changed into like a river of spring water

Well said


justincredible Honorable Admin
37,969 posts 203 reps Joined Nov 2009
Tue, Apr 27, 2021 10:56 PM
posted by Ironman92

Well said


cc created a new account, it seems.


friendfromlowry Senior Member
7,778 posts 73 reps Joined Nov 2009
Wed, Apr 28, 2021 6:11 AM

I guess I also thought as we approach month five of vaccinating people, we’d be further along with the CDC then it’s now safe for vaccinated people to riding public transportation and getting a haircut indoors but while still wearing a mask. 

QuakerOats Senior Member
11,701 posts 56 reps Joined Nov 2009
Wed, Apr 28, 2021 2:15 PM
posted by friendfromlowry

That’s fine and I’m not disagreeing. But, and just my personal preference, I’d rather see these places just say “Look if you don’t wear a mask, we get in trouble, so do just do it.” I respect that much more than “wE dOnT cAre if you’re vaccinated.” There are already plenty of people out there discounting the vaccine saying we don’t know how effective they are, you can still spread mild cases, not everyone can get/has gotten it. And those people can fuck all the way off. 



Amen

QuakerOats Senior Member
11,701 posts 56 reps Joined Nov 2009
Wed, Apr 28, 2021 2:15 PM

Moderna II yesterday ..............no discernable after-effects (at least yet). 




justincredible Honorable Admin
37,969 posts 203 reps Joined Nov 2009
Wed, Apr 28, 2021 2:25 PM

Dr Winston O'Boogie Senior Member
3,345 posts 25 reps Joined Oct 2010
Wed, Apr 28, 2021 5:13 PM
posted by QuakerOats

Moderna II yesterday ..............no discernable after-effects (at least yet). 




Good on you. Got my second today (Pfizer).  Hopefully tomorrow, I feel like you do today. 

Fletch Member
0 posts 0 reps Joined Nov 2020
Wed, Apr 28, 2021 5:53 PM
posted by justincredible

Don’t understand the endgame here.  I guess science is different out there
gut Senior Member
18,369 posts 94 reps Joined Nov 2009
Wed, Apr 28, 2021 6:15 PM
posted by Fletch
Don’t understand the endgame here.  I guess science is different out there

Other than not wanting to appear political with prior heavy-handed lockdowns, my guess is maybe the more economic damage they can show from Covid the bigger piece of Biden giant stimulus pie they can get?

iclfan2 Reppin' the 330/216/843
9,465 posts 82 reps Joined Nov 2009
Wed, Apr 28, 2021 6:52 PM
posted by Fletch
Don’t understand the endgame here.  I guess science is different out there

I feel really bad for small business owners. BUT, you get what you vote for. 


bigorangebuck22 Senior Member
322 posts 6 reps Joined Nov 2009
Thu, Apr 29, 2021 9:14 AM
posted by justincredible

Mr Chef conveniently leaves out that it's only for a few counties, indoor only, and the outdoor limits doubled.

justincredible Honorable Admin
37,969 posts 203 reps Joined Nov 2009
Thu, Apr 29, 2021 10:17 AM
posted by bigorangebuck22

Mr Chef conveniently leaves out that it's only for a few counties, indoor only, and the outdoor limits doubled.

It's over a third of the counties in the state, and I'm going to guess it includes the most highly populated. What percentage of the overall population lives in the affected counties?

How many restaurants in those 15 counties don't have access to outdoor space?

justincredible Honorable Admin
37,969 posts 203 reps Joined Nov 2009
Thu, Apr 29, 2021 10:24 AM

3.6m of Oregon's 4.2m residents live in one of the 15 counties affected.

You're right. It's only a few counties.

brutus161 The Navy Guy
1,688 posts 16 reps Joined Nov 2009
Thu, Apr 29, 2021 11:33 AM

Oregon's 7 day average is 3 deaths a day (and has been for weeks). This is completely unnecessary. 

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