Am I an idiot?

brutus161 The Navy Guy

1,688 posts 25 reps Joined Nov 2009

Tue, Nov 8, 2022 10:40 AM

Recently, I was contacted by a recruiter for a position in Jacksonville, FL (about 35 minutes from my house). The position was a step down in title and responsibility, but a step up in pay. The company is Owens Corning, so they have money to throw around. I went on-site and everything seemed normal, but just didn't seem like as good of a vibe as my current company. Yesterday an offer came in for $30K over my current salary plus a 15% annual bonus (currently a much smaller bonus). After sleeping on it, I declined the offer today without any assurances from my current company that they would meet what the offer was. Did I just make the biggest mistake of my professional life?

kizer permanente Senior Member

1,309 posts 18 reps Joined Aug 2017

Tue, Nov 8, 2022 10:43 AM

posted by brutus161
Recently, I was contacted by a recruiter for a position in Jacksonville, FL (about 35 minutes from my house). The position was a step down in title and responsibility, but a step up in pay. The company is Owens Corning, so they have money to throw around. I went on-site and everything seemed normal, but just didn't seem like as good of a vibe as my current company. Yesterday an offer came in for $30K over my current salary plus a 15% annual bonus (currently a much smaller bonus). After sleeping on it, I declined the offer today without any assurances from my current company that they would meet what the offer was. Did I just make the biggest mistake of my professional life?

Nah. Always go with your gut. Besides... offers come all the time. Another one will come sooner than later if you're meant to leave.

justincredible Honorable Admin

37,969 posts 250 reps Joined Nov 2009

Tue, Nov 8, 2022 10:47 AM

I'd have a hard time turning down a $30k bump in pay, but culture/vibe is very important to me so I don't think you're an idiot...for this.

BR1986FB Senior Member

27,923 posts 126 reps Joined Feb 2010

Tue, Nov 8, 2022 10:58 AM

posted by justincredible
I'd have a hard time turning down a $30k bump in pay, but culture/vibe is very important to me so I don't think you're an idiot...for this.

Agreed. There's more to a career than just money. Culture/fit is just as important, maybe more so.

And taking an offer to your current company, hoping for a bump in pay (counteroffer) isn't always a great move. You may get your raise but you're also going to have a bullseye on your back as the "disloyal one who we had to throw money at to get to stay." If your boss calls you and you don't answer your phone they may be wondering if you're out interviewing or something.

To answer your question, you're not an idiot for declining it.

Fletch Member

0 posts 3 reps Joined Nov 2020

Tue, Nov 8, 2022 11:11 AM

posted by kizer permanente
Nah. Always go with your gut. Besides... offers come all the time. Another one will come sooner than later if you're meant to leave.

This is not good advice. If offers are always coming then you should have taken a bunch of money and then wait to leave.

j_crazy 7 gram rocks. how i roll.

8,623 posts 30 reps Joined Nov 2009

Tue, Nov 8, 2022 11:21 AM

in the past i have turned down offers for like 20% more money and double bonus potential because i didn't trust the leadership of the company making the offer, or 1 company that spent the entire interview asking how thoroughly i scrutinized vendor invoices and nothing about my technical ability.

in short. nah, you made the right call.

kizer permanente Senior Member

1,309 posts 18 reps Joined Aug 2017

Tue, Nov 8, 2022 11:23 AM

posted by Fletch
This is not good advice. If offers are always coming then you should have taken a bunch of money and then wait to leave.

huh?

justincredible Honorable Admin

37,969 posts 250 reps Joined Nov 2009

Tue, Nov 8, 2022 11:25 AM

Speaking of idiots...

gut Senior Member

18,369 posts 117 reps Joined Nov 2009

Tue, Nov 8, 2022 11:26 AM

For once I agree with Fletch....

I don't think the culture/fit vs. money should really come into play until you're senior management level, maybe even Exec level. Harder and longer to find work at those levels, but if you're more junior take the money and then if it sucks, move on.

Not asking your company to match or bump isn't a horrible idea if you are thinking about staying for several years or more. Research generally shows the most people separate within 12 months even if the company matched.

But you might go in and ask for a raise. Arm yourself with some research about what a market rate is. I wouldn't necessarily say "Company X offered this...", but a 10% raise is only keeping in line with inflation.

jmog1 Member

7 posts 0 reps Joined Feb 2018

Tue, Nov 8, 2022 12:24 PM

Depending on your current salary, I would have a hard time turning down $30k and larger bonus. I mean if you are making $200k+ then $30k isn't that big of a bump. But if you are like most of us middle to upper middle class slubs $30k is a healthy percentage increase.

To show where my break off point is, back in the spring I turned down a job offer that was $15k more than what I made at the time, it included a $7500 signing bonus and a better bonus structure (on the high end). They knew I would have taken it if the increase was $25k based on the salary and bonus increases.

I did get a raise out of it by going and talking about market and where I wanted to be. I felt like I was in a good position to ask based on my actual results the last 3 years with the company (doubling and tripling goals every year...shoot, this year I am 7x my goal) and I did get the same $15k increase.

With all that said, $30k isn't worth your sanity, if you could tell it was not good then you made the right choice. I interviewed at one place that I knew walking out even if they offered me $50k raise I would turn it down.

I have done a lot of work with Owens Corning over the years at their glass melting plants. Had mostly good encounters with some of their management.

brutus161 The Navy Guy

1,688 posts 25 reps Joined Nov 2009

Tue, Nov 8, 2022 12:26 PM

posted by gut
For once I agree with Fletch....
I don't think the culture/fit vs. money should really come into play until you're senior management level, maybe even Exec level. Harder and longer to find work at those levels, but if you're more junior take the money and then if it sucks, move on.
Not asking your company to match or bump isn't a horrible idea if you are thinking about staying for several years or more. Research generally shows the most people separate within 12 months even if the company matched.
But you might go in and ask for a raise. Arm yourself with some research about what a market rate is. I wouldn't necessarily say "Company X offered this...", but a 10% raise is only keeping in line with inflation.

I'm the HR Director for the company, so that had something to do with it. I spent the last 5 years shaping the culture at this company and wasn't sure if I wanted to start from scratch at a new location.

Automatik Senior Member

15,737 posts 99 reps Joined Nov 2009

Tue, Nov 8, 2022 12:57 PM

Culture is huge.

I had a similar situation to the OP. I was losing my mind at a former job. An offer came for a significant raise. I knew it would be harder and a different vibe. I took it, but I bounced 18 months later. The place was start-uppy and the management clueless.

Looking back, I don't regret it. It helped me in the long run (higher level title and responsibilities), but with my current role/company, I wouldn't be so quick to move on for 30k.

Dr Winston O'Boogie Senior Member

3,345 posts 36 reps Joined Oct 2010

Tue, Nov 8, 2022 2:26 PM

Age factors in too. I’m 52 and culture means a lot more to me now than it did 20 years ago. I’ve done a lot of time with Fortune 500 companies. Had some great experiences, but have learned that big company executives are not the kind of people I want to work with or for anymore. So in my field, I’m okay making less than I could I order to be in a more suitable situation. One thing I did right was prepare myself financially to do this by living below my means. At my age and level, that has given me some breathing room.

Without knowing your personal situation, my opinion is you did the right thing. Gut instinct in these matters is very important.

Plus, if Spock advises Option A, always go with Option B.

j_crazy 7 gram rocks. how i roll.

8,623 posts 30 reps Joined Nov 2009

Wed, Nov 9, 2022 9:27 AM

here's one more thing i'm considering, what about a golden handcuff? i would be walking away from like 150k (70 of which is due in january) if i walk away from my current employer. how much sway would that make in your decision, because in mine, it's not playing into it at all.

gut Senior Member

18,369 posts 117 reps Joined Nov 2009

Wed, Nov 9, 2022 10:27 AM

Sometimes a company will offer a bonus or match if you're walking away from a LTI, or accelerate your vesting (effectively granting you equity immediately equal to your previous LTI).

But waiting a few months for $70k is a no-brainer. 12+ months even for $150k? Would depend on the job and comp. At the end of the day, that's worth maybe less than 1 year of salary to you. So another way to look at it is rather than walking away from $150k, you'd be committing to working 1 more year before retirement (whenever that is). Which if you really like the new job, or hate the old one, is probably fairly tolerable.

geeblock Member

1,123 posts 0 reps Joined May 2018

Wed, Nov 9, 2022 10:43 AM

My wife worked for Nationwide right out of a 2 year community college as an insurance underwriter for about 5 years before i met her and made maybe 50-55k. About 10 years ago she took a shot from a call she got from someone on linked in for another company in a different position for about a 10 k raise. She was scared because she was at a solid company and generally liked her job and staff. She isnt a real risk taker.

2 years later she got another job and another 20k raise

2 years later same thing.

She now works for a very large insurance company working from home and running Ohio, Michigan and PA selling and writing policy for very large commercial policies and makes probably 200k ish. It can be scary to leave a known entity but sometimes it can work out if not at that new company but the next one. Edit: they gave her a 10% raise this summer because basically some others in the company left and they just wanted to make sure she was happy.

jmog Senior Member

7,737 posts 52 reps Joined Nov 2009

Thu, Nov 10, 2022 7:27 AM

posted by geeblock
My wife worked for Nationwide right out of a 2 year community college as an insurance underwriter for about 5 years before i met her and made maybe 50-55k. About 10 years ago she took a shot from a call she got from someone on linked in for another company in a different position for about a 10 k raise. She was scared because she was at a solid company and generally liked her job and staff. She isnt a real risk taker.
2 years later she got another job and another 20k raise
2 years later same thing.
She now works for a very large insurance company working from home and running Ohio, Michigan and PA selling and writing policy for very large commercial policies and makes probably 200k ish. It can be scary to leave a known entity but sometimes it can work out if not at that new company but the next one. Edit: they gave her a 10% raise this summer because basically some others in the company left and they just wanted to make sure she was happy.

It’s unfortunate, but in today’s economy the only real way to get a REAL raise is to leave your company. And people are saying that this should be every 3-5 years to maximize your income.

My current company is treating me like your wife’s is. I started here 4 years ago, took a 25% raise in coming here.

In almost 4 years I have gained an over 35% for a total of 70% increase from my last job just 4 years ago.

Am I an idiot?

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