Vote by Mail

gut Senior Member
18,369 posts 91 reps Joined Nov 2009
Fri, Aug 14, 2020 11:21 AM

I was curious about how this might play out by demographics.  Source Wikipedia, but we're not trying to be scientific here (and I generally find Wikipedia to be decent if it's not a politicized issue).  It's 2008, so the young and African American demographics might be a little overstated.


No big shocker here.  Higher turnout assumed from vote by mail will favor Democrats as the increased turnout percentage will skew younger.  But the disparity between male & female could substantially mitigate that.



gut Senior Member
18,369 posts 91 reps Joined Nov 2009
Fri, Aug 14, 2020 11:23 AM

I assume both sides have done their homework and their stances on vote by mail should be telling.

Obviously educated voters prefer Biden.  So this would seem to strongly favor Trump in a higher turnout.  Except this clearly includes a lot of poorer people, which may skew Democrat.  Ultimately, they are probably more poor rural whites that could vote who otherwise wouldn't that would favor Trump.  But it's perhaps not a great assumption that vote by mail will substantially impact turnout.


gut Senior Member
18,369 posts 91 reps Joined Nov 2009
Fri, Aug 14, 2020 11:26 AM


Income - same story as above.  I think the US median income in 2008 was probably somewhere in the 40's, but that might have been for families.  Still going to skew poorer here, and while that is disproportionately more minority, there's still more than twice as many whites.  But it's a guess how they lean.  Overall, poorer are likely to lean Dem.

gut Senior Member
18,369 posts 91 reps Joined Nov 2009
Fri, Aug 14, 2020 11:35 AM

Here's where it gets interesting.  I think this is a potential 1.5 point pick-up for Dems (ignoring Asians, who voted about 2.5 to 1 for Clinton).  Key word is potential - turnout efforts can make all the difference in vote by mail.

Spock Senior Member
5,271 posts 8 reps Joined Jul 2013
Fri, Aug 14, 2020 11:43 AM

Vote by mail is going to go down in flames.  Too many ballots will be floating around with nobody to file them.  

gut Senior Member
18,369 posts 91 reps Joined Nov 2009
Fri, Aug 14, 2020 11:43 AM

Now that I think about it, a lazy analysis as far as the electoral vote.  But maybe not terribly different.

Overall turnout a little over 60%...grass roots efforts probably swamps everything else.  How effective are you at actually getting people to mail-in their ballots?

Let's say Biden has a 5-point advantage in swing states.  His campaign would have to be approximately 86% as effective at getting people to mail in their ballots in order to win.  85% spending and 85% of the boots on the ground might not get it done.

That break-even number is probably a little lower because I suspect the overall demographics do favor Biden a little on mail in voting.

MontyBrunswick Senior Member
1,065 posts 15 reps Joined Mar 2015
Fri, Aug 14, 2020 11:45 AM
posted by Spock

Vote by mail is going to go down in flames.  Too many ballots will be floating around with nobody to file them.  

Link?

gut Senior Member
18,369 posts 91 reps Joined Nov 2009
Fri, Aug 14, 2020 11:45 AM
posted by Spock

Vote by mail is going to go down in flames.  Too many ballots will be floating around with nobody to file them.  

I think the best solution is expanded early voting.  Much better investment.  Aren't a lot of machines actually IN grocery stores?  That, combined with absentee ballots, makes much more sense.

SportsAndLady Senior Member
39,070 posts 24 reps Joined Nov 2009
Fri, Aug 14, 2020 12:04 PM

I’ll be mailing in my vote this year, not that it’ll make any difference here in IL. 

like_that 1st Team All-PWN
29,228 posts 308 reps Joined Apr 2010
Fri, Aug 14, 2020 12:10 PM

I never understood why Election Day couldn’t be a holiday. 

As far as the current climate goes with covid, if everyone wears a mask and keeps social distance, I don’t see the issue for voting in person.

Spock Senior Member
5,271 posts 8 reps Joined Jul 2013
Fri, Aug 14, 2020 12:11 PM
posted by MontyBrunswick

Link?

If someone wants to steal ballots or create fake ones, they will.  No link needed.

MontyBrunswick Senior Member
1,065 posts 15 reps Joined Mar 2015
Fri, Aug 14, 2020 12:13 PM
posted by Spock

If someone wants to steal ballots or create fake ones, they will.  No link needed.

Aka you couldn't find a brietbart article to push your agenda?

gut Senior Member
18,369 posts 91 reps Joined Nov 2009
Fri, Aug 14, 2020 12:20 PM
posted by MontyBrunswick

Aka you couldn't find a brietbart article to push your agenda?

It's hard to envision how widespread fraud would happen.  It would be very high risk for an individual to try to steal ballot out of mailboxes, if they even knew what day it would be delivered.

So then you move on to the postal service.  But, again, probably highly traceable if a number of people on a specific route report never receiving ballots.

The most likely issue is ballot harvesting, where people volunteer to pick-up your ballots and then filter ballots for one party.  Seems unlikely anywhere outside of, possibly, a nursing home.

Creating fake ballots would invalidate the election when a number of duplicates show-up.

Only real fraud I can see is someone like CC not mailing his wife's ballot because he knows she voted for Biden.  If you want to ensure your vote counts, drop it in the mail yourself.

Otherwise, I guess you have that old rumor of buying a homeless person a meal to vote Dem.  Same thing - you go around harvesting votes from homeless people.  Doesn't seem real practical or significant enough to matter.

MontyBrunswick Senior Member
1,065 posts 15 reps Joined Mar 2015
Fri, Aug 14, 2020 12:25 PM
posted by gut

It's hard to envision how widespread fraud would happen.  It would be very high risk for an individual to try to steal ballot out of mailboxes, if they even knew what day it would be delivered.

So then you move on to the postal service.  But, again, probably highly traceable if a number of people on a specific route report never receiving ballots.

The most likely issue is ballot harvesting, where people volunteer to pick-up your ballots and then filter ballots for one party.  Seems unlikely anywhere outside of, possibly, a nursing home.

Creating fake ballots would invalidate the election when a number of duplicates show-up.

Only real fraud I can see is someone like CC not mailing his wife's ballot because he knows she voted for Biden.  If you want to ensure your vote counts, drop it in the mail yourself.

Otherwise, I guess you have that old rumor of buying a homeless person a meal to vote Dem.  Same thing - you go around harvesting votes from homeless people.  Doesn't seem real practical or significant enough to matter.

That's basically pretty much how I feel. It would probably encourage voter participation, which is a good thing.



justincredible Honorable Admin
37,969 posts 190 reps Joined Nov 2009
Fri, Aug 14, 2020 12:45 PM
posted by MontyBrunswick

That's basically pretty much how I feel. It would probably encourage voter participation, which is a good thing.

gut Senior Member
18,369 posts 91 reps Joined Nov 2009
Fri, Aug 14, 2020 12:46 PM
posted by MontyBrunswick

That's basically pretty much how I feel. It would probably encourage voter participation, which is a good thing.

But think about how uninformed the average voter is, and then think about the people who haven't even been voting....

I know that's not up for consideration, or even Constitutional.  Although I do wish a voter had to demonstrate some minimal knowledge - I would love to remove the "D" or "R" designation, as well as who the incumbent and challenger are.  The people who really don't know who or what they're voting for would cancel each other out.

Other than the BS about turnout% virtue-signaling some sort of referendum on Democracy, I really don't think more NPC votes is a good thing.

Automatik Senior Member
15,737 posts 93 reps Joined Nov 2009
Fri, Aug 14, 2020 12:49 PM

I sent my absentee request out on Tuesday. Hope they get it in time!

Heretic Son of the Sun
20,517 posts 187 reps Joined Nov 2009
Fri, Aug 14, 2020 1:15 PM


posted by gut

It's hard to envision how widespread fraud would happen.  It would be very high risk for an individual to try to steal ballot out of mailboxes, if they even knew what day it would be delivered.

So then you move on to the postal service.  But, again, probably highly traceable if a number of people on a specific route report never receiving ballots.

The most likely issue is ballot harvesting, where people volunteer to pick-up your ballots and then filter ballots for one party.  Seems unlikely anywhere outside of, possibly, a nursing home.

Creating fake ballots would invalidate the election when a number of duplicates show-up.

Only real fraud I can see is someone like CC not mailing his wife's ballot because he knows she voted for Biden.  If you want to ensure your vote counts, drop it in the mail yourself.

Otherwise, I guess you have that old rumor of buying a homeless person a meal to vote Dem.  Same thing - you go around harvesting votes from homeless people.  Doesn't seem real practical or significant enough to matter.

From personal experience, I find that the people most against the concept of mail-in voting due to fraud are the diehard politards whose entire self-identity is based on their party support to the degree they need to have ready-made "CONSPIRACY AND CORRUPTION" excuses lined up in case their guy loses in that old "It wasn't because of our dude; the other side CHEATED!!!" way.
gut Senior Member
18,369 posts 91 reps Joined Nov 2009
Fri, Aug 14, 2020 1:23 PM
posted by Heretic
From personal experience, I find that the people most against the concept of mail-in voting due to fraud are the diehard politards whose entire self-identity is based on their party support to the degree they need to have ready-made "CONSPIRACY AND CORRUPTION" excuses lined up in case their guy loses in that old "It wasn't because of our dude; the other side CHEATED!!!" way.

It goes both ways - we've spent 3+ years listening to crying about a stolen election.  And it's already teed-up if Trump wins that we'll have 4 more years of crying about a stolen election.  But no doubt in my mind that vote by mail in 50 states will be an abject disaster.

I just think it's funny while everyone is distracted with "vote by mail", Trump signs an illegal EO handing out $1T to voters.  4D checkmate!!!

queencitybuckeye Senior Member
8,068 posts 108 reps Joined Nov 2009
Fri, Aug 14, 2020 1:26 PM
posted by MontyBrunswick

That's basically pretty much how I feel. It would probably encourage voter participation, which is a good thing.



The lower the turnout the more my vote counts. That's good for me.

Spock Senior Member
5,271 posts 8 reps Joined Jul 2013
Fri, Aug 14, 2020 1:33 PM
posted by gut

It's hard to envision how widespread fraud would happen.  It would be very high risk for an individual to try to steal ballot out of mailboxes, if they even knew what day it would be delivered.

So then you move on to the postal service.  But, again, probably highly traceable if a number of people on a specific route report never receiving ballots.

The most likely issue is ballot harvesting, where people volunteer to pick-up your ballots and then filter ballots for one party.  Seems unlikely anywhere outside of, possibly, a nursing home.

Creating fake ballots would invalidate the election when a number of duplicates show-up.

Only real fraud I can see is someone like CC not mailing his wife's ballot because he knows she voted for Biden.  If you want to ensure your vote counts, drop it in the mail yourself.

Otherwise, I guess you have that old rumor of buying a homeless person a meal to vote Dem.  Same thing - you go around harvesting votes from homeless people.  Doesn't seem real practical or significant enough to matter.

Large housing developments where 1/3 or more of the ballots are mailed to people that arent even living there.  People getting ballots for dead relatives.......  lots of ways fraud can happen

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