Progressives, part 3...

Today in dumbass twitter got takes, no, border camps for people who come to the border illegally are not comparable to nazis ripping Jews out of their houses. And if you didn’t care that Obama did it, sit this one out.

posted by iclfan2

Today in dumbass twitter got takes, no, border camps for people who come to the border illegally are not comparable to nazis ripping Jews out of their houses. And if you didn’t care that Obama did it, sit this one out.

Agreed.

At the very least, if you say you "didn't know that was happening," I'd like to hear you say the same things about him that you're saying about Trump that you've claimed are motivated by the action at the wall.

More partisan hypocrisy.  What else is new?

So Coleman Hughes testified in the House against reparations in general. But he did think an allowance in some circumstances was reasonable.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2019/06/19/coleman_hughes_the_moment_you_give_someone_reparations_youve_made_them_into_a_victim.html

The backlash was strong, mainly by the usual blue checkmarks: https://twitter.com/raesanni/status/1141367850042445826

Very reminiscent of the Don Lemon fiasco.

How do we go about reparations?

First we seperate everyone into tribes:

1.  people of color that can prove their relative was a slave

2.  People of color that came here after the civil war

3.  All other ethnicities (I am sure that asians arent paying)

here is where it gets difficult:

1.  white people that moved here after the civil war

2.  White people that have no slave owning relatives

3.  White people that did have slave owning relatives.

So does that sum it up?

I get the argument for reparations, but I always feel it falls apart on how to do it. It also seems like an easy answer to a complex problem. Just giving cash to the descendants of slaves does not wash away our sins. There is also the insane complexity of how the payments would occur, for long, and what is the criteria. Once some people determine they are not qualified to receive payment, how will that go down in this age of social media and viral moments? Also, what is the exact amount to appease folks? A few hundred, a grand, more than that? Who determines this? A board? Who is on the board, and what is their makeup, etc., etc. 

I read Coats argument a years ago. He makes an impassioned case. But, it all falls apart on how exactly this occurs. 

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2014/06/the-case-for-reparations/361631/

If any reparations are to be paid it should be paid by the DNC.

Since I dont have a racist bone in my body, I find the whole situation ridiculous.  This country through a civil war and massive amounts of legislation has done enough to allow the mobility of a race of people to move away from this.

To suggest that as a collective whole....we have to atone for some sin that nobody alive had anything to do with is crazy.  This country will never move past slavery and racism because there are alot of people that dont want to.

Well, I think the first step would be to reach some sort of consensus within the group about which reparations would occur. As I showed, it's not going to be an easy thing to do. There is so much infighting already that I don't know how anybody else from the outside would be able to contribute with a reasonable lense.

Would any amount of funding for this be better spent fighting the slavery that is happening all over the world today?

posted by queencitybuckeye

Would any amount of funding for this be better spent fighting the slavery that is happening all over the world today?

Define slavery, you heretic!

posted by ptown_trojans_1

I get the argument for reparations, but I always feel it falls apart on how to do it. It also seems like an easy answer to a complex problem. Just giving cash to the descendants of slaves does not wash away our sins. There is also the insane complexity of how the payments would occur, for long, and what is the criteria. Once some people determine they are not qualified to receive payment, how will that go down in this age of social media and viral moments? Also, what is the exact amount to appease folks? A few hundred, a grand, more than that? Who determines this? A board? Who is on the board, and what is their makeup, etc., etc. 

I read Coats argument a years ago. He makes an impassioned case. But, it all falls apart on how exactly this occurs. 

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2014/06/the-case-for-reparations/361631/

I have one problem with your whole argument, you said "our sins". I owned zero slaves. My parents owned zero slaves. My grandparents owned zero slaves. My great-grandparents owned zero slaves. My great-great grandparents were in Scotland during the Civil War.

There is not a single person alive right now that owned slaves, so it is not "our" sin, it was THEIR sin. The people who did it, no one else's.

Now, if you want to talk "reparations" for Jim Crow laws and mistreatments up until the 1960s (ish) then we can have a dialogue and who should pay what to whom.

https://www.bop.gov/about/statistics/statistics_inmate_offenses.jsp

One of these things is not like the other one. I think relaxing our drug laws and releasing low-level, non-violent drug offenders would be a good start. Granted, I don't know exactly what percentage of those in for drugs are black, but I'm pretty sure I've seen it's as high as 80%.

posted by justincredible

https://www.bop.gov/about/statistics/statistics_inmate_offenses.jsp

One of these things is not like the other one. I think relaxing our drug laws and releasing low-level, non-violent drug offenders would be a good start. Granted, I don't know exactly what percentage of those in for drugs are black, but I'm pretty sure I've seen it's as high as 80%.

I don't think very many people are in FEDERAL prison just for marijuana.  There is a huge number of people who have been incarcerated for marijuana, but the vast majority served an average of two months in county jails.

posted by gut

I don't think very many people are in FEDERAL prison just for marijuana.  There is a huge number of people who have been incarcerated for marijuana, but the vast majority served an average of two months in county jails.

Okay, that's fine. How many of those that spend two months in county jail end up losing their jobs?

posted by justincredible

Okay, that's fine. How many of those that spend two months in county jail end up losing their jobs?

But that's not a federal issue.  Ann Arbor decriminalized marijuana 47 years ago, so local solutions have been available for a long time.

posted by jmog

I have one problem with your whole argument, you said "our sins". I owned zero slaves. My parents owned zero slaves. My grandparents owned zero slaves. My great-grandparents owned zero slaves. My great-great grandparents were in Scotland during the Civil War.

 

There is not a single person alive right now that owned slaves, so it is not "our" sin, it was THEIR sin. The people who did it, no one else's.

 

Now, if you want to talk "reparations" for Jim Crow laws and mistreatments up until the 1960s (ish) then we can have a dialogue and who should pay what to whom.

Well, slavery is America's original sin. Yes, while previous generations dealt with part of it, the reparation arguments also focus on your last sentence, as the sin has not been forgiven or dealt with fully. That is why it is still our sin. I'm not fully on board with that as again, how do you quantify that? 

If the feds removed pot from schedule 1 it would make a big difference.

posted by ptown_trojans_1

Well, slavery is America original sin. Yes, while previous generations dealt with part of it, the reparation arguments also focus on your last sentence, as the sin has not been forgiven or dealt with fully. That is why it is still our sin. I'm not fully on board with that as again, how do you quantify that? 

 

Maybe since we obliterated the Indians.....then gave them land to live on as reparations, maybe reparations for slavery could be just that easy, lets carve out Mississippi and Alabama and give it to the black population to do with it what they want.  Open some casinos would be a good start.

posted by jmog

There is not a single person alive right now that owned slaves, so it is not "our" sin, it was THEIR sin. The people who did it, no one else's.

Not to mention many payed for THEIR sins with THEIR lives or the lives of THEIR loved ones.

This is why this whole concept of defining people by something that occurred centuries ago is foolish.  This is why I jokingly refer to myself as a native American.  Which in all present day factual reality I am.  I don't feel at all guilty for something people did hundreds of years ago.

My family did not hit the US from England till 1730's.......they never lived in the south.  Never owned a slave and I had a family member die in the civil war.

So do I get reparations for him sacrificing his life to free the slaves?