posted by kizer permanenteBut we’re not trying to minimize it, we’re doing the opposite. lol that’s the whole point
No, the total deaths, mother and baby, from pregnancies that go to birth and that are aborted, would be minimized by completely outlawing abortion everywhere.
That won’t happen, but allowing each state to choose on their own may lower the total deaths between abortion and pregnancy complications.
posted by Dr Winston O'BoogieI agree with whomever made the point that not all pro life people are driven by their religious beliefs. However, surveys show that a majority are. The same probably holds true of the members of the Court - although we may never know that. My point is that I see this a the start of going down the road of imposing the religious beliefs of some on everyone. There are clearly differences of opinion on this issue. Just because some biologists say life begins at some point does not make that a fact. This is a question that does not have a definitive answer at present. I may not like abortion on a personal level. But I accept that there are many people in our society that feel differently and I also accept their right to hold that opinion - especially on a topic that has so many gray areas. I also can understand a woman desiring to have final say over what happens to her own body. To me, it would be like someone tellling me there was a law against vasectomies.
“Some”? 96% of them.
The other 4% varied from heartbeat/brainwaves to far less than 1% being at first breath.
Saying “some” is just trying to minimize the facts.
posted by iclfan2Guys, a non viable or ectopic pregnancy is not abortion. Yes some morons in the Ohio house tried to bring up something stupid, but it obviously had no legs(Kizer was correct). The point of 99% of abortion issues are for the people who want to use it as birth control. Yes, no one pregnant from incest or rape should have to bring a child into this world.
Yes
posted by iclfan2Guys, a non viable or ectopic pregnancy is not abortion. Yes some morons in the Ohio house tried to bring up something stupid, but it obviously had no legs(Kizer was correct). The point of 99% of abortion issues are for the people who want to use it as birth control. Yes, no one pregnant from incest or rape should have to bring a child into this world.
The problem is there’s a large portion of the right that take hard line stances and don’t agree with you. That’s why we see this legislation try to be pushed thru. Now they have essentially the backing of the SCOTUS
posted by kizer permanenteGoogles free and will work for you too you know?
https://ohiocapitaljournal.com/2022/04/29/ohio-bill-would-ban-abortion-without-rape-exemption/
It is and I use it quite often. It helps to have context to others thoughts and specifically the info used to support their opinion. Thanks.
posted by kizer permanenteSorry Schmidt and Becker are Reps.
Point remains unchanged. We have law makers voting on legislation for us that they don’t fully understand what they’re voting on.
Agree. My point also remains unchanged. Why leave it to 5 people in black robes? You have a greater immediate ability to influence our state legislature than the federal legislature much less the lifetime federal SCOTUS. They have washed their hands of this so now we can have at it at a level of governance we have more influence over.
posted by kizer permanenteThe problem is there’s a large portion of the right that take hard line stances and don’t agree with you. That’s why we see this legislation try to be pushed thru. Now they have essentially the backing of the SCOTUS
The same can be said for a large portion of the left calling for “abortions” for hours/weeks after the baby is already born.
Actual bills discussed in at least CA, NY, and VA had various forms of this.
Don’t act that that isn’t more “crazy”.
posted by ptown_trojans_1Where do those rights begin? That question is now on the table. How far are you willing to go? .
Most, if not all, these issues would fail to pass constitutional scrutiny. Which is what most people should really care about.
Roe v. Wade was overturned on the the basis of an improper decison relying on federal freedoms not codified.
It's not rocket science, people. The SCOTUS didn't make law, they unmade improper law. You can still have all the abortion you like, you just have to elect state and/or federal represetnatives to make that happen.
posted by majorsparkThis is not going to happen. Women are not going to be dying in droves.
It's almost as if people regurgitate left-wing talking points without a modicum of logical thought.
posted by kizer permanenteLol Gut never failing to coming thru with his preconceived stereotypes to make his argument.
hEy gUyz… pOoR pEoPlE sHoUld uSE tHeIr hEAlTh InSuRaNce FoR bIrTh CoNtRol
You have no idea how idiotic that sounds … that’s how we know how out of touch your are with reality. Jfc lol you think everyone just lives like you and your little bubble friends don’t you?
LOL... You've not presented an actual counter-argument. Ad hominem attack, mental diarrhea on display.
And I didn't say "pOoR pEoPlE sHoUld uSE tHeIr hEAlTh InSuRaNce FoR bIrTh CoNtRol". Rather, you proved my point that idiots like you can't be bothered to read. You misunderstand something and your brain instantly shuts off...emotions go to Defcon 0.111. And then you flame people with stupidity.
You've done this over and over. You are so over the top triggered that you can't even read and process coherently what people are saying.
Take a timeout. A lot of deep breaths. And then some more time. Then re-read what's actually being said before proceeding to bukkake the board with your random incoherences.
posted by ptown_trojans_1I also ask if posters on here are in favor of the following, because these are all now issues on the table here and being discussed currently in other states.
Full bans with no exceptions.
Criminal charging abortion providers in state and anyone that helps someone travel out of state.
Banning Plan B.
Banning IUDs
Banning the use of the drug that is ordered through the mail.
I don't agree with any of these things happening, and based on the average view of abortion I think you will be hard pressed to find many people who agree with any of it. The problem is, these debates should have started 50 years ago vs legislating from the bench. My guess in 50 years, laws would have been passed/reversed/amended/etc as society learned more about abortions. This goes along the lines of what information is available and how the average view of abortion has changed with readily availably facts. Instead, NOW is when the conversation is just beginning and we all are going to have to go through these growing pains that should have started a long time ago.
Personally speaking, I think 99% of abortions are morally fucked up. I understand and I am ok with the reasons being brought up in this thread for emotional appeal (rape, incest, dying, etc), however the reality is that those reasons a barely a blip on the radar for abortions and I believe a lot of people use "women's rights" as a shield for debate.
Politically speaking, despite a few posters all of a sudden pretending to care about individual liberties, if you want to use a libertarian argument, libertarianism is about self autonomy and property rights + the non aggression principle. If you actually understand this (most here don't), then you can understand why a libertarian (or someone who holds a lot of libertarian views) would extend these rights to a defenseless life in someone's body. This is especially true for those that believe life begins at conception. Most of us believe this is true for every other animal on the planet, but apparently can't grasp this for humans. With that being said, nobody is ever going to be happy with this debate. This is why I believe (and hope) every state aligns with Europe and allows abortions in the first trimester. This is in line with what most people in the US are comfortable with and it's the best compromise.
Edit: I could be wrong, but I think the votes are there to codify abortions up to the first trimester. Dems have failed to do this in the last 50 years. I think some Rs would vote in favor of it too.
posted by gutLOL... You've not presented an actual counter-argument. Ad hominem attack, mental diarrhea on display.
And I didn't say "pOoR pEoPlE sHoUld uSE tHeIr hEAlTh InSuRaNce FoR bIrTh CoNtRol". Rather, you proved my point that idiots like you can't be bothered to read. You misunderstand something and your brain instantly shuts off...emotions go to Defcon 0.111. And then you flame people with stupidity.
You've done this over and over. You are so over the top triggered that you can't even read and process coherently what people are saying.
Take a timeout. A lot of deep breaths. And then some more time. Then re-read what's actually being said before proceeding to bukkake the board with your random incoherences.
The problem is you live in a world where you think everyone has the same wealth and access like you. I can't help you think like a little kid. You offer simple solutions b/c that's the terms you like to think in. "Well people should just do this b/c that's what I'd do and it's easy for me". There isn't a debate for someone who thinks like you who doesn't live in anyone else's reality. So I'll let you carry on believing everyone has access to everything you have and should just do what you'd do. You've formed your entire viewpoints off that.
posted by gutLOL... You've not presented an actual counter-argument. Ad hominem attack, mental diarrhea on display.
And I didn't say "pOoR pEoPlE sHoUld uSE tHeIr hEAlTh InSuRaNce FoR bIrTh CoNtRol". Rather, you proved my point that idiots like you can't be bothered to read. You misunderstand something and your brain instantly shuts off...emotions go to Defcon 0.111. And then you flame people with stupidity.
You've done this over and over. You are so over the top triggered that you can't even read and process coherently what people are saying.
Take a timeout. A lot of deep breaths. And then some more time. Then re-read what's actually being said before proceeding to bukkake the board with your random incoherences.
Tell me about it, I was thinking about starting talking points using other peoples stances just to see how quick they be triggered to say the opposite even though it was their original stance
For CC and QO:
posted by Dr Winston O'BoogieFor CC and QO:
Awesome, I don’t think you know which one I am since I am trolling 90% of the time
posted by FletchAwesome, I don’t think you know which one I am since I am trolling 90% of the time
I guess not. You’re the same as Churchill described the USSR: a riddle wrapped inside a mystery inside an enigma.
posted by geeblockEither way idc. I don’t think anyone should be infringed upon by other’s opinions. No matter what the opinion or even if I agree with it. I hope no one ever gets an abortion for many of the same reasons u do, but I don’t believe my opinion should matter to another person and their right to priv
Mind numbing.
But I am glad that you agree that the innocent unborn baby shall not be infringed upon.
Unborn baby is an oxymoron, you're half of that.
posted by gutLOL, I just realized the irony of this decision is the Left suddenly cares deeply & passionately about folks living in fly-over land.
And their protestations are effectively 'anti-democracy'. They don't want The People to decide; they want a dictator or a dictatorial court to give them what they want (so they don't have to debate the issue). Pretty funny.
posted by QuakerOats
And their protestations are effectively 'anti-democracy'. They don't want The People to decide; they want a dictator or a dictatorial court to give them what they want (so they don't have to debate the issue). Pretty funny.
lol same guy who lost his shit and refused to wear a mask when the state asked him too
