Progressives, part 3...

posted by jmog

You get ignored because you gerrymander the facts/statistics.

Nah I have came to realize only the trolling posts get responses. 

posted by geeblock

I couldn’t find where I said pc brigade in my post.  I said that many people are upset they have to worry about the feelings of gays and minorities and women  If u can find the word brigade I’ll give u 100$. There seems to be a growing fear that the white culture or what it means to American is threatened. I see the terms “real Americans” used a lot more now or “true Americans” which often seems to include people who think these groups are gaining too much power

Anytime I see "real American" or "true American," it's been in the context of a No True Scotsman fallacy.  I honestly don't remember the last time I saw someone use a phrase like that without accompanying it with the fallacy, and I notice it.

posted by geeblock

 

My post says exactly what I meant it to say and isn’t as extreme as u try to make it as usual. Having to be politically correct and fighting the pc crowd are entirely two different things. I can agree that the “pc crowd” can be annoying when it goes to far. But I don’t mind being politically correct when I talk. For instance I don’t say “that’s retarded” or “that’s gay” anymore because I realize that those things are offensive to some people. My post says that some people feel they should be able to say what they want without fear or worry about what others think. That is a whole different subject imo than if u hate the pc crowd you are racist. But for you the easiest way to win an Argument is to say well everything is racist nowadays or if you do this you must be racist instead of just reading what is written and twisting it to your woe is me hard to be white in 2019 na

Did you seriously just complain that I twisted your words then say that I was playing the "woe is me hard to be white" narrative? Do you even see the irony in your own posts?

You literally said people fight against the politically correct because they want to be racist homophobes then try to dance around what you said to make it not sound quite as an extreme position.

Am I the only one who is noticing that almost every post from geeblock has the last word cut short?

posted by O-Trap

Anytime I see "real American" or "true American," it's been in the context of a No True Scotsman fallacy.  I honestly don't remember the last time I saw someone use a phrase like that without accompanying it with the fallacy, and I notice it.

 

 

Agreed, I have always seen "real" and "true" American in the same sense. Like "no true American could be for gun control" or "no true American could be against Israel".

I do typically see the No True Scotsman fallacy in this form on the right far more often than the left (not that the the left doens't use it as well).  However, geeblock sees everything through a set of worldview glasses that tints everyone else as racist so he sees "true American" to mean "us whiteys" since it is usually from the conservative right using the fallacy.

posted by jmog

Agreed, I have always seen "real" and "true" American in the same sense. Like "no true American could be for gun control" or "no true American could be against Israel".

 

I do typically see the No True Scotsman fallacy in this form on the right far more often than the left (not that the the left doens't use it as well).  However, geeblock sees everything through a set of worldview glasses that tints everyone else as racist so he sees "true American" to mean "us whiteys" since it is usually from the conservative right using the fallacy.

Eh, I'm not sure I've seen him go to that extreme, though I've not read every single comment on this thread.  That would be depressing.  I did see him mention that, from a macro standpoint, there are statistics that seem to indicate a systemic predisposition that stacks the deck somewhat in the favor of white people.  Truthfully, I can't say I disagree entirely, though he and I might disagree on the extremes to which that's true.

This is an example. Notice how he uses the term “American” sports fans in the title not just fans 

https://mobile.twitter.com/aubrey_huff/status/1125849899507961856

posted by O-Trap

Am I the only one who is noticing that almost every post from geeblock has the last word cut short?

I noticed the same

posted by O-Trap

Eh, I'm not sure I've seen him go to that extreme, though I've not read every single comment on this thread.  That would be depressing.  I did see him mention that, from a macro standpoint, there are statistics that seem to indicate a systemic predisposition that stacks the deck somewhat in the favor of white people.  Truthfully, I can't say I disagree entirely, though he and I might disagree on the extremes to which that's true.

He said those fighting the pc trend are racist homophobes...

posted by geeblock

This is an example. Notice how he uses the term “American” sports fans

https://mobile.twitter.com/aubrey_huff/status/1125849899507961856

I didn't watch the video part, but the text is not using the term "American" in a racist way like you want it to be. He was saying he wants sports to be sports and not a political stage. Especially since he was a MLB player he has context. 

I just listened to the video as well. 

The fact that you see racism in that post of his speaks volumes about your view on life geeblock, and not him. He said that he didn't vote for Obama but still felt it was an honor as a MLB champion to visit the WH and meet the POTUS. He said he wants athletes to entertain and not be political platforms. 

He said not a SINGLE thing about race at any point in time. 

You complained that I twisted words and didn't read what was typed (by you) why don't you take your own advice. He typed and said that he wanted athletes to entertain and not be a political platform because that's what American sports fans want.

Take it for EXACTLY what he said and not some racial bias like you are ensenuating.

Just to be clear I am half white. I went to an all white high school and 99% white college. I know that not all white people are racist and that in fact most aren’t. I believe I can still talk about issues of race without people feeling like I’m calling you personally a racist. 

posted by geeblock

This is an example. Notice how he uses the term “American” sports fans in the title not just fans 

https://mobile.twitter.com/aubrey_huff/status/1125849899507961856

That's a decent example of a No True Scotsman fallacy, yeah.  It doesn't make him necessarily racist, of course, but his allusion is that real "American fans" will agree with him, implying that those who don't agree with him aren't real American fans.
 

posted by jmog

He said those fighting the pc trend are racist homophobes...

Some of them are.  In fact, I'd wager most racists, even the more polite and pleasant ones, are going to oppose a degree of political correctness.

Now, if he meant that the ONLY people opposing an excessive level of PC are racist, I'd disagree with him on that, but as he already clarified, he himself finds some of the over-the-top PC stuff ridiculous, too.
 

posted by jmog

I didn't watch the video part, but the text is not using the term "American" in a racist way like you want it to be. He was saying he wants sports to be sports and not a political stage. Especially since he was a MLB player he has context. 

 

I just listened to the video as well. 

 

The fact that you see racism in that post of his speaks volumes about your view on life geeblock, and not him. He said that he didn't vote for Obama but still felt it was an honor as a MLB champion to visit the WH and meet the POTUS. He said he wants athletes to entertain and not be political platforms. 

 

He said not a SINGLE thing about race at any point in time.

It didn't seem like geeblock was showing this as a demonstration of racism.  I took it to mean he was showing how it's used as a fallacy.

posted by geeblock

Just to be clear I am half white. I went to an all white high school and 99% white college. I know that not all white people are racist and that in fact most aren’t. I believe I can still talk about issues of race without people feeling like I’m calling you personally a racist. 

Half joking here, but isn't that the black equivalent to a white dude saying "I have black friends"?

I still am curious how you believed Huff's use of "American" was somehow racial.

posted by jmog

Half joking here, but isn't that the black equivalent to a white dude saying "I have black friends"?

Eh, I don't think "I am" is the same as "I know people who are," for obvious reasons.  But as you said, there's some jest in that question.

posted by jmog

Half joking here, but isn't that the black equivalent to a white dude saying "I have black friends"?

 

I still am curious how you believed Huff's use of "American" was somehow racial.

Why did he say American fans with a logo of the flag instead of mlb fans, fans or sports fans? Just random? I don’t know if I’m saying it’s racial I’m saying it’s being used to show that if you don’t think or believe a certain way you aren’t a real American

^ Which is ...

... a textbook No True Scotsman.

Also, the whole "hating PC so you can be racist" is practically fake news.  Not saying racist things isn't generally considered being PC, except for perhaps wearing a MAGA hate makes you racist (so it seems to work more in reverse).  To pretend the anti-PC movement (if there's such a thing) is primarily racist is almost as ignorant that claim.

Hating PC is more about not offending people by saying "Merry Christmas".  Or mistakenly referring to "he" when "she" is actually a "zhe".  And safe spaces.  And an entire new language because a very small percent of people want to change what words mean and have meant for tens or hundreds of years.  And it's not so much that identity politics is promoting "get even" discrimination against white males, it's that if you don't subscribe to the agenda then your racist/sexist/homophobic/etc....

It's simply offensive to tell people if they didn't vote for Hillary then they are a misogynist.  If you criticize Obama you're a racist  People like geeblock don't understand that because they can't see beyond their own victimization.

posted by gut

Also, the whole "hating PC so you can be racist" is practically fake news.  Not saying racist things isn't generally considered being PC, except for perhaps wearing a MAGA hate makes you racist (so it seems to work more in reverse).  To pretend the anti-PC movement (if there's such a thing) is primarily racist is almost as ignorant that claim.

Hating PC is more about not offending people by saying "Merry Christmas".  Or mistakenly referring to "he" when "she" is actually a "zhe".  And safe spaces.  And an entire new language because a very small percent of people want to change what words mean and have meant for tens or hundreds of years.  And it's not so much that identity politics is promoting "get even" discrimination against white males, it's that if you don't subscribe to the agenda then your racist/sexist/homophobic/etc....

It's simply offensive to tell people if they didn't vote for Hillary then they are a misogynist.  If you criticize Obama you're a racist  People like geeblock don't understand that because they can't see beyond their own victimization.

None of what you said applies to anything I have ever said I clearly clarified what I meant but as usual u create your own victim narrative based on something that wasn’t said. I also said the pc crowd goes too far but you will pretend I didn’t because it doesn’t fit with what you want the narrative to be

Lol peak 2019 journalist twitter. Journalist arguing with an actual PHD in Meteorology because she's listened and reported on climate "experts" for 5 years. Also, Ryan Maue is a good follow if you'd like to see a scientist who doesn't call everything climate change.

https://twitter.com/emorwee/status/1148983296929538048

Live action shot of what it's like to be a female climate reporter arguing with male meteorologists online pic.twitter.com/kIA55QKN8w

— Emily Atkin (@emorwee) July 10, 2019

In reply to

posted by iclfan2

Lol peak 2019 journalist twitter. Journalist arguing with an actual PHD in Meteorology because she's listened and reported on climate "experts" for 5 years. Also, Ryan Maue is a good follow if you'd like to see a scientist who doesn't call everything climate change.

https://twitter.com/emorwee/status/1148983296929538048

 

In reply to

 

 

She's getting absolutely crucified for that.

Rightly so, but ... damn.