Progressives, part 3...

posted by Heretic

I'm not even gonna pretend to give a shit about any of this until the numbers have been whittled down from Infinity to at least single digits and we're closing in on whenever the fuck Ohio's primary is because I have actual friends and hobbies, but here's some real information on this shit that I feel I will be able to use when the time is right.

https://www.barstoolsports.com/newyork/which-democratic-candidate-would-be-the-best-to-drink-a-beer-with-and-therefore-the-best-to-lead-the-free-world-i-went-to-miami-to-find-out

You're like 95% of the nation.  The media likes to think this is the most important shit going on everyone's lives.  I bet if everyone just went outside instead of following the news everyday, this country's happiness ranking would rise.  I also think our suicide rate would drop a bit.  I am not even kidding, I think the media plays a huge rule into this country's depression.

With that being said, reps for posting a pft article.  I hope he doesn't continue covering politics for barstool, because that's not what barstool is for, but he always brings comedy gold.

Have only read through a bit of last night, but the common theme so far seems to be:

-Medicare for all, no private insurance

-medicare for illegals

-decriminalizing border crossings (open borders)

Doesn't seem all that reasonable.

Dont forget that they all think the economy is in the dumps.  

posted by Spock

Dont forget that they all think the economy is in the dumps.  

Ahh, how could I forget that, and them wanting to raise my taxes. Saw something where one of them last night said they want 500,000 car charging stations built? Demand or not?  

posted by iclfan2

Ahh, how could I forget that, and them wanting to raise my taxes. Saw something where one of them last night said they want 500,000 car charging stations built? Demand or not?  

Boatshoes definitely was creaming himself to this. 

I'm still trying to wrap my brain around "reproductive justice".

posted by CenterBHSFan

I'm still trying to wrap my brain around "reproductive justice".

Same. I heard it recently and just started laughing. 

I'll give Bernie credit for [finally] admitting taxes on the middle class would go up.....but but but you'll make that up on your healthcare savings!  Which should be an easy one to knock down "just like Obamacare was going to do!".  It's another dishonest debate, though, because drugs and insurance make up only 20% of healthcare costs combined.  Someone needs to point out this is all a lie unless you intend to pay doctors and hospitals a lot less (the implications of which are readily obvious to everyone).

Also, most people probably missed it because this came from Wang (former tech exec):  $1000 per month per person guaranteed income.  How are you going to pay for that?  "VAT".  And there it is....

And LOL....Trump is supposedly the fascist/authoritarian, but a lot of statements last night began with "I would pass an executive order...."

posted by gut

And LOL....Trump is supposedly the fascist/authoritarian, but a lot of statements last night began with "I would pass an executive order...."

I'm pretty sure I pissed off a lot of Bernie supporters I know when I made it very clear that he was the biggest fascist in the running for 2016.

"But, but, he's OUR kind of fascist." F*ck you.

posted by gut

Someone needs to point out this is all a lie unless you intend to pay doctors and hospitals a lot less (the implications of which are readily obvious to everyone).

That is their plan. Their reimbursments will go down. How will Drs and hospitals stay in business you ask? Good question

posted by gut

And LOL....Trump is supposedly the fascist/authoritarian, but a lot of statements last night began with "I would pass an executive order...."

EOs are short form that I cannot get shit through Congress. EOs are just lazy in my view. 

I thought the most interesting questions was how would any of the candidates interact with the Senate. Because without working with McConnell, a lot of their ideas and plans being talked about by the Ds would die. 

posted by ptown_trojans_1

EOs are short form that I cannot get shit through Congress. EOs are just lazy in my view.

EOs are supposed to be for shit like federal holidays and flags at half mast.  Stuff that isn't important enough to spend Congress' time on.

It cracks me up that the ones claiming to be the honest ones and stand opposed to "big corporations" using tax "loopholes" are the ones openly saying they'll be using a legislative loophole.

posted by iclfan2

That is their plan. Their reimbursments will go down. How will Drs and hospitals stay in business you ask? Good question

That's what medicare does.  But that's why they always talk about drugs and insurance - because those are "big, greedy" companies.  There's no cost savings in insurance - many said that back during the Obamacare debates and most people were like "oh, you must work for Big Pharma".

Maybe we can bend that cost curve without driving doctors and hospitals out of business.  But structurally those costs are MUCH higher than Europe - doctors make 3-5X less there, and hospital stays may be as much as 10X less.  Yes, if you look at outcomes, they get a better return on their medical dollar.  But simply paying less won't lower costs.

I think what will happen is a bifurcation.  "Medicare for all" will be a minimal amount of basic coverage.  But the best doctors will have a private practice (this is already happening) or there will be some form of supplemental insurance or cash kicker.  So, once again, only the more well to do will be able to afford the best quality treatment.

Most people who can afford it get supplemental insurance with their Medicare.  "Medicare for all" is going to have tens of millions of people being forced to accept lesser coverage and losing their doctors because they won't have money left for supplemental coverage after paying higher taxes to help insure all the illegals.

posted by O-Trap

EOs are supposed to be for shit like federal holidays and flags at half mast.  Stuff that isn't important enough to spend Congress' time on.

It cracks me up that the ones claiming to be the honest ones and stand opposed to "big corporations" using tax "loopholes" are the ones openly saying they'll be using a legislative loophole.

They are also supposed to be how the Executive structures itself and operates. So, how the National Security Council operates and is structured.  

posted by ptown_trojans_1

EOs are short form that I cannot get shit through Congress. EOs are just lazy in my view.

Unilateral is the word you were looking for.  Short-form for "rather than compromise and find a good solution, I'm going to overstep my authority to cram something thru..."

posted by ptown_trojans_1

They are also supposed to be how the Executive structures itself and operates. So, how the National Security Council operates and is structured.  

Ah yeah, fair enough.  Still dealing with the "executive" duties as opposed to the "legislative" duties.

So, from the New York Times, who leans left: 
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/06/26/opinion/sunday/republican-platform-far-right.html

Yet today's left says that the republican party has gone off the rails lol

posted by CenterBHSFan

So, from the New York Times, who leans left:

Agreed.  Those things are usually set-up such that left-of-center is the "middle".

For example, why would open borders - a.k.a. illegal immigration (because no one opposes legal immigration) - even be considered a valid position?  More legal immigration and faster, OK but again no one really opposes that.

So last night - you want open borders and free healthcare for illegals?  I don't buy the whole "you want to ruin America" crap because I know they don't believe that....but that is literally a recipe to bankrupt the country.

Progressives are only progressive with this stuff till it affects their wallet and it moves in next door to them