Impressed by the Trump administration part II

An Ohio school district seems pretty reasonable.

http://video.foxnews.com/v/5738516030001/?#sp=show-clips

posted by justincredible

I saw a headline floating around claiming that allowing teachers to be armed would lead to them murdering black students in class. I didn't click on it, because it's clearly drivel. These people are out of their minds.

The argument that people having guns will use them more (gun free zones, etc) is so stupid. Nothing stops someone from carrying a gun anywhere anyway unless there is a metal detector or something. So if Teacher/Person A doesn't kill someone normally, having a gun with them doesn't magically turn them into a killer. It is so illogical. 

posted by SportsAndLady

You act like every teacher in a school is CC. I’m not a big “gun guy” but if a responsible gun carrier happens to be a teacher and he/she wants to legally carry a weapon during class, why the fuck not? You act like they’re going to pull these guns out and let the kids run around recess with them. The majority of people wouldn’t even know they’re carrying. And if some psycho starts shooting up the school, they can help stop the threat. 

That sounds so completely logical to me. But you have people like you who just mock everything (lol they don’t make any money lol) and don’t actually offer any suggestions yourself and another day goes by where kids are stuck in schools as sitting ducks. 

That's a lot of assumptions from my two sentence post. I'm not against teachers carrying, I just don't see it happening regularly.

Did you actually listen to what he said? I'm referring to teachers who are "highly adept." and "a little bit of a bonus." My school was full of rather old teachers or younger ones fresh out of college. None that I would consider "highly adept" regarding handling a firearm in a time of crisis.

posted by Automatik

That's a lot of assumptions from my two sentence post. I'm not against teachers carrying, I just don't see it happening regularly.

Did you actually listen to what he said? I'm referring to teachers who are "highly adept." and "a little bit of a bonus." My school was full of rather old teachers or younger ones fresh out of college. None that I would consider "highly adept" regarding handling a firearm in a time of crisis.

 

So your school had inept teachers = every school has inept teachers. Got it. 

I'm actually all for having a LEGIT guard, officer, protector, whatever you want to call it in a school.

Not some glorified rent-a-cop, or over the the hill guy just collecting a paycheck and is too scared to engage.

Also, lock the building the fuck down. Make it a process to enter, for students and visitors. 

posted by SportsAndLady

So your school had inept teachers = every school has inept teachers. Got it. 

More assumptions. You're not very good at this. 

I think S&L is being a little unfair to Auto. Auto, curious if you watched the Colion Noir video in the school shooting thread. 

Yes, and I agree with everything he said. Common sense. 

Metal detectors and searches when entering is rather common here in NYC. Standardize it throughout the country.

posted by SportsAndLady

You act like every teacher in a school is CC. I’m not a big “gun guy” but if a responsible gun carrier happens to be a teacher and he/she wants to legally carry a weapon during class, why the fuck not? You act like they’re going to pull these guns out and let the kids run around recess with them. The majority of people wouldn’t even know they’re carrying. And if some psycho starts shooting up the school, they can help stop the threat. 

That sounds so completely logical to me. But you have people like you who just mock everything (lol they don’t make any money lol) and don’t actually offer any suggestions yourself and another day goes by where kids are stuck in schools as sitting ducks. 

This.  If they are already law abiding and responsible gun owners why the fuck not? It's not like they are going to put a loaded gun on a wall in a glass case for all of their students to see.  I am ok with giving these teachers bonuses too, or paying legitimate armed guards to be at the school.  Our education system has tripled their funding since 1970 and test scores have not advanced.  It's pretty obvious more $ does not = better educational results.  Shift some of that bloated funding to secure your schools.

It's a much better approach than all of these "common sense" laws being proposed that will never work.  Btw, if we are raising the age for gun ownership to 21 are we also going to stop sending 18-20 year olds to fight and die in war?  How can we say these kids are responsible to actually engage in combat if we are saying at home they aren't responsible to own a guy.  Are we going to raise the voting age to 21?  Clearly our nation is conflicted.  We think we should legislate based on what a bunch of emotional teenagers say, but we also don't think they should drink until 21, own a gun until 21, and we need legislation to prevent them from eating tide pods. 

posted by justincredible

I saw a headline floating around claiming that allowing teachers to be armed would lead to them murdering black students in class. I didn't click on it, because it's clearly drivel. These people are out of their minds.

So the white Shaun King?

posted by Automatik

More assumptions. You're not very good at this. 

You kinda are projecting your school's case to the rest of the nation, while also getting a classic cheap shot in on teachers/gun owners.  What is your point that their salary is 30K (not every teacher is making this small amount btw, but you know that)?  What does that have to do with anything with being a responsible gun owner? 

 It's obviously case by case for every school, but I am willing to bet there are a lot of schools that have trained and responsible gun owners, where carrying firearms would be helpful.  I can think of several teachers or administrators at my school on the top of my head that could have taken on this responsibility.  

posted by Automatik

I'm actually all for having a LEGIT guard, officer, protector, whatever you want to call it in a school.

Not some glorified rent-a-cop, or over the the hill guy just collecting a paycheck and is too scared to engage.

Also, lock the building the fuck down. Make it a process to enter, for students and visitors. 

I am for this as well.  As I said earlier, this is a much better approach than the "common sense" gun laws.  I would also like to add, how about enforcing our current laws?  The police department ignored 39 reports regarding the shooter and their sheriff had the audacity to virtue signal at the CNN town hall.  He should resign with the officer who did not engage the shooter.  Clearly the Sheriff is incompetent from running a department that is supposed to do their job protecting citizens. 
 

My jab regarding 30k/year is more that I feel teachers are not paid enough for what they do as it is, but that's another topic.

Then you add on a responsibility of carrying in an attempt to stop a would be shooter. Sure there will be ones who be adept and willing to do this. I just don't see it being common enough to be a feasible solution.

Standardized security protocol across the entire country. It's actually crazy that it's not already a thing.

I'm not familiar with police training and their program choices, but what about a focus/path that sends on your way to becoming an armed school guard? 

posted by Automatik

My jab regarding 30k/year is more that I feel teachers are not paid enough for what they do as it is, but that's another topic.

Then you add on a responsibility of carrying in an attempt to stop a would be shooter. Sure there will be ones who be adept and willing to do this. I just don't see it being common enough to be a feasible solution.

Standardized security protocol across the entire country. It's actually crazy that it's not already a thing.

I'm not familiar with police training and their program choices, but what about a focus/path that sends on your way to becoming an armed school guard? 

Here is a better idea.  The DoD already has a bloated budget.  How about stop wasting billions in the middle east, bring young men back home, and have them patrol schools?

Or put a school security levy on your ballot and see how it plays out.  If it's voted no, you can blame yourselves when tragedy occurs. 

All school boards have to do is announce that they would allow teachers to do this and its going to deter shootings.

Cut down on administrators and direct that money towards securing the schools.

posted by Spock

All school boards have to do is announce that they would allow teachers to do this and its going to deter shootings.

You may be right.  But a lot of these shooters are suicidal.  Why would this deter someone who doesn't plan to survive the attack?

posted by Automatik

Yeah, let's have the 30k/year teacher start packin. It's a decent thought, but not feasible. He's just blabbing.

Just did a quick run through of my highschool teachers, none with any significant military/police experience

One does not need military or police experience to be properly trained on a firearm. Pretty much everyone in my family (dad, mom, sister, me, etc) have been properly trained and 3 of us have CCWs which requires proper training.

If I was a HS teacher right now I would WANT to be allowed to carry with a CCW.

posted by jmog

One does not need military or police experience to be properly trained on a firearm. Pretty much everyone in my family (dad, mom, sister, me, etc) have been properly trained and 3 of us have CCWs which requires proper training.

If I was a HS teacher right now I would WANT to be allowed to carry with a CCW.

Tell that to Donald. I was just going off of what he said.

posted by Automatik

Tell that to Donald. I was just going off of what he said.

Hold on, let me look him up in my phone's contacts...

Oh wait, you posted it on this thread so yes, I responded to you. Regardless of who originally said it, it's mostly a dumb statement.

posted by Spock

All school boards have to do is announce that they would allow teachers to do this and its going to deter shootings.

Troubled people deciding to go out with a blaze of glory would be stopped because someone else at the school has a gun? Not likely. I highly doubt that people who're planning to take a gun into a crowded building/venue are expecting to get away after causing some carnage -- more like an "I'm gonna kill until I get stopped!" mindset. The benefit to having qualified armed people is to hopefully reduce the amount of carnage that a shooter can cause.

posted by jmog

Hold on, let me look him up in my phone's contacts...

 

Oh wait, you posted it on this thread so yes, I responded to you. Regardless of who originally said it, it's mostly a dumb statement.

You don't need it. @ him on Twitter!

posted by Heretic

Troubled people deciding to go out with a blaze of glory would be stopped because someone else at the school has a gun? Not likely. I highly doubt that people who're planning to take a gun into a crowded building/venue are expecting to get away after causing some carnage -- more like an "I'm gonna kill until I get stopped!" mindset. The benefit to having qualified armed people is to hopefully reduce the amount of carnage that a shooter can cause.

If they had the choice between the following two options, which do you think they would go with?

1. School with "gun free zone" signs posted.
2. School that allows trained faculty and staff to be armed.

Didn't the Aurora theater shooter chose the theater he did because it was the only theater within a 20 mile radius that was specifically a gun-free zone?

That's not to say it would never happen in a place where guns are allowed to be carried, but I'd say it's a bigger deterrent than you're giving it credit for.