Impressed by the Trump administration part II

posted by ptown_trojans_1

My question is, and we won't know without the actual FISC Applications, is what evidence was used to keep the application going? Did they find more dirt and that was the reason the applications kept going? 

This is a new level of head-in-the-sand even for you.  McCabe TESTIFIED a warrant would not have been sought without the Dossier - which was clearly not vetted, and later determined to be unreliable.

Remember how upset everyone was with the fake yellow cake docs?  But now you "need more information".

Ptown.....please stop.  This is a huge DC scandal and you are posting like boat.

posted by QuakerOats

Dow 30

26,597.10

+204.31 (+0.77%)

 

 

Getting tired of so much winning .............probably going take some marbles off the table for a while. 

Have a great weekend. 

 

No Dow update?

posted by gut

This is a new level of head-in-the-sand even for you.  McCabe TESTIFIED a warrant would not have been sought without the Dossier - which was clearly not vetted, and later determined to be unreliable.

Remember how upset everyone was with the fake yellow cake docs?  But now you "need more information".

posted by Spock

Ptown.....please stop.  This is a huge DC scandal and you are posting like boat.

Look guys. That testimony, we only have parts of it, not the whole transcript.

The memo is, again, one data point. It is one opinion of a primary source. It was written by R staff members from the Hill, not for sure legal experts with an unbias viewpoint. 

Plus, yes, perhaps, the initital request was kinda iffy, but, we do not have all the evidence that was used for that first request, but more importantly, all the other requests. Perhaps, there was more information that was more credible, and that dossier was the main reason to start, but then once they starting the FISA warrent, they found more information, and dossier was not needed, or the primary reason for the warrent. 

I'm sorry, I'm not coming to conclusions based on one data point and one opinion without reference to the primary sources. 

Maybe, the FBI did fuck up, but, without the actual FISA warrents, I do not know for sure. Neither do you all.

I'm not a FISA lawyer, and I'm sure most people on here are not either, so I feel safe to say, I just don't know enough, without all the proper context, that I'm willing to scream bloody murder like all you guys. 

If that is called my head buried in the sand, then so be it. I would like to see you all make life or work decisions with one data point from one point of view...

Ptown....tou hsve to admit that regardless of "one data point".....the rest will be damning and likely paint a worse picture.

Heads should roll....with what is already out....jail time should happen.

posted by ptown_trojans_

Look guys. That testimony, we only have parts of it, not the whole transcript.

Help me understand your ambiguity and confusion of "without the Steele Dossier [FBI] would not have sought a FISA warrant".  Carter Page is going to get P.A.I.D.

Put your seething hatred for Trump aside and call a spade a spade.  This isn't really even about Trump collusion, just a pretty clear - possibly criminal - abuse of power.  Everyone should be condemning this - they wiretapped a private US citizen because of manufactured bullshit.  That's police state level crap right there. 

Everyone who touched that Dossier, by the way, is pretty much an unwitting foreign agent duped and played by Russia.

Its not about trump....the DNC snd the deep state would have done this to anyone.  

posted by Spock

Its not about trump....the DNC snd the deep state would have done this to anyone.  

It's bizarre.  We go from "this can't be released...it damages national security....yada yada yada" to "this is a nothingburger"....and finally to "we need to hear from the Democrats and Schiff's memo".

Unless there is a different memo from the one I read, that's a hell of a lot of dancing and spinning over what I'm not exactly sure.

My theory is that Nunes said more is to come.  So after failing to block the release of this memo, the Dems are now scrambling to get ahead of the coming tsunami.  Obviously the Repubs have been abusing the hyperbole, but I think worse is yet to come and the never-Trumpers (got include those, because I saw McCain lying thru his teeth, too) are nervous.  Nothing in this memo about unmasking - and Samantha Power made hundreds of requests, but testified she didn't actually sign off on most of those.

So the democrats now want to release their own memo. I hope that they are given clearance by Trump. 

I hope this all devolves to where both sides are ratting each other out. That way an all-around general exposure happens. And then we voters can get to work on cleaning house and hopefully people start getting more interested in voting 3rd party (libertarian).

posted by gut

This is a new level of head-in-the-sand even for you.  McCabe TESTIFIED a warrant would not have been sought without the Dossier - which was clearly not vetted, and later determined to be unreliable.

Remember how upset everyone was with the fake yellow cake docs?  But now you "need more information".

The Most enjoyable thing about this Memo is how it has made Conservatives leap to the same wild conclusions without hard evidence that they criticize the liberals for doing with regard to #MuhTRumPRussia.

I don't care about any of this stuff but your motivated reasoning is enjoyable to read.

The Memo itself states that FBI agent Peter Strzok opened the investigation based on information about Papadapolous. 

Here is Orin Kerr's take on it - a pretty well known libertarian leaning attorney who has practiced on 4th Amendment issues - and the general idea that somehow, even if this were based on the dossier, that it would be some kind of a fraud on the four Republican FISA court judges that authorized surveillance on a guy the FBI thought was a spy. 

It seems likely that the House Intelligence Committee will soon #ReleaseTheMemo. According to press reports, the memo claims that the FISA application to monitor Trump campaign advisor Carter Page included information sourced from former British intelligence officer Christopher Steele "without adequately explaining to the judge that Democrats financed Mr. Steele’s research." 

This is a scandal, the argument runs,  because it means the application was fraudulent.  Because Steele was funded by Democrats, his reports were just unreliable opposition research designed to make Trump and his associates look bad.  And if the FISA application was based on Steele's unreliable research, and DOJ never told that to the FISA Court, then DOJ misled the court and the court should not have issued the warrant.

As a Fourth Amendment nerd, it seems to me that the premise of #ReleaseTheMemo is pretty dubious. The apparent idea is that the failure to adequately document the funding behind Steele's work is a huge deal and a fraud on the court. But as a matter of law, that seems pretty unlikely to me. When federal judges have faced similar claims in litigation, they have mostly rejected them out of hand. And when courts have been receptive to such claims, it has been because of specific facts that are likely outside the scope of the memo that will be released. 

https://lawfareblog.com/dubious-legal-claim-behind-releasethememo

I have been pretty happy overall with Trump's presidency so far given his terrible personality as none of the hyperbolic predictions have come to pass. Bad the sad reality of people like Gut falling into line to carry water believing wild things to defend Trump, etc. shows how the fruit could be there for awful things to come to pass

posted by BoatShoes

The Most enjoyable thing about this Memo is how it has made Conservatives leap to the same wild conclusions without hard evidence that they criticize the liberals for doing with regard to #MuhTRumPRussia.

I don't care about any of this stuff but your motivated reasoning is enjoyable to read.

The Memo itself states that FBI agent Peter Strzok opened the investigation based on information about Papadapolous. 

Here is Orin Kerr's take on it - a pretty well known libertarian leaning attorney who has practiced on 4th Amendment issues - and the general idea that somehow, even if this were based on the dossier, that it would be some kind of a fraud on the four Republican FISA court judges that authorized surveillance on a guy the FBI thought was a spy. 

It seems likely that the House Intelligence Committee will soon #ReleaseTheMemo. According to press reports, the memo claims that the FISA application to monitor Trump campaign advisor Carter Page included information sourced from former British intelligence officer Christopher Steele "without adequately explaining to the judge that Democrats financed Mr. Steele’s research." 

This is a scandal, the argument runs,  because it means the application was fraudulent.  Because Steele was funded by Democrats, his reports were just unreliable opposition research designed to make Trump and his associates look bad.  And if the FISA application was based on Steele's unreliable research, and DOJ never told that to the FISA Court, then DOJ misled the court and the court should not have issued the warrant.

As a Fourth Amendment nerd, it seems to me that the premise of #ReleaseTheMemo is pretty dubious. The apparent idea is that the failure to adequately document the funding behind Steele's work is a huge deal and a fraud on the court. But as a matter of law, that seems pretty unlikely to me. When federal judges have faced similar claims in litigation, they have mostly rejected them out of hand. And when courts have been receptive to such claims, it has been because of specific facts that are likely outside the scope of the memo that will be released. 

 

https://lawfareblog.com/dubious-legal-claim-behind-releasethememo

 

I have been pretty happy overall with Trump's presidency so far given his terrible personality as none of the hyperbolic predictions have come to pass. Bad the sad reality of people like Gut falling into line to carry water believing wild things to defend Trump, etc. shows how the fruit could be there for awful things to come to pass

 

 

But but but, gut isn't a Republican! gut hates Trump!

posted by CenterBHSFan

So the democrats now want to release their own memo. I hope that they are given clearance by Trump. 

I hope this all devolves to where both sides are ratting each other out. That way an all-around general exposure happens. And then we voters can get to work on cleaning house and hopefully people start getting more interested in voting 3rd party (libertarian).

Yeah, get it to where something that's actually unpredicable and noteworthy happens. So far, this is all too generic and typical.

1. Alleged smoking gun.

2. People on one side say it's a HUGE ASS CONSPIRACY, JUST LIKE WATERGATE IF NOT WORSE and other amazing uses of hyperbole. Other side's people say that it's nothing and reflect more on the other side's paranoia and desire to pass the buck.

Been there, seen that, let's move on to where both sides are simultaneously very, very uncomfortable. And maybe, if only for a few moments, it'll shut up the bottom-feeders who equate replacing one swamp with a different, equally corrupt, one to "draining the swamp"

Without evidence? LOL, don't go full libtard.  This isn't Harry Reid slandering someone from the Senate floor because he has immunity.  This is an official statement and finding of FACT, based yes on evidence, from a INVESTIGATORY committee.  

Enough with the bullshit spinjob coming from the Dems - that memo is accurate and truthful.  If it were not, Comey and others names would have a lawsuit on their hands.  And McCabe TESTIFIED that without the memo they don't seek a warrant.  How that continues to be overlooked and spun is beyond me.   Truly a new low where an official memo from Congress is called lies and cherry picking.  For all the fears about Trump "destroying the US", the Dems and their media sycophants are doing a bang-up job on their own.

It's really not about Trump, but anything even remotely connected to Trump causes libtards to lose their minds.  It's about abuses in the FISA process, which WAS a bipartisan issue....until it's used against people connected to Trump, then Dems be like "I'm good".

There's a good reason seemingly decent people like Trey Gowdy are getting out of there.  These two parties are assclown central.  The president is a first class douchebag and you can't do anything without it being leaked out.  

from a WSJ article....

In March of 2007, he announced that he was “deeply troubled” by what he called “abuses of authority” by the FBI in acquiring personal information on U.S. citizens. Over the years, he urged various restrictions on the ability of the executive branch to get information on Americans’ phone calls. In order “to protect privacy and increase transparency” he sought in various ways to reform the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court—the very court that approved the electronic surveillance of a Trump associate for reasons that are still not entirely clear.

Way ahead of the news, this particular lawmaker specifically introduced the “Ending Secret Law Act” which according to a press release from his office, “would require the Attorney General to declassify significant Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court (FISC) opinions, allowing Americans to know how the Court has interpreted” its legal authorities.

This lawmaker said that his legislation “will help ensure we have true checks and balances when it comes to the judges who are given the responsibility of overseeing our most sensitive intelligence gathering and national security programs.”

His name is Adam Schiff, and he is now the ranking member on House Intelligence. But oddly he doesn’t seem to want to take credit for his early concern for civil liberties.

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

There's a good reason seemingly decent people like Trey Gowdy are getting out of there.  These two parties are assclown central.  The president is a first class douchebag and you can't do anything without it being leaked out.  

From what I've read regarding Schiff's memo, he's deftly addressing things not said in the memo.  His memo apparently says the FISA court was aware of possible political motivations behind the Dossier....but that's not what Nunes memo says, that said material information that the memo was funded by Hillary and the DNC was not disclosed.  So not a lie, but there is another debate about whether or not the source and motivation matters, which probably not for liberals when its Dems spying on Repubs.

Schiff then goes on to discuss other information and qualification for the warrant.  Again, that's NOT what Nunes memo says.  Schiff claims, allegedly (have not seen it from him directly), that McCabe didn't say what was attributed to him.  Well, Nunes says release the transcripts - we can guess who the number one opponent of that will be, on grounds of "national security...sources and methods".

So very carefully crafted spin to disparage the Nunes - or should we say "alternative" - memo.  I'm sure it will be effective for the usual useful idiots.  Although it is curious to see the Dems and their media so uncharacteristically out-of-sync trying to spin and respond.  That national security tripe days before the memo was released was a horrible miscalculation, and it really should cause people to strongly question their credibility on this.

posted by QuakerOats

 

Unleashing human spirit, innovation and ingenuity because of economic and political freedom is our salvation. 

While Trump passes Solar tariffs and mines for more oil.   Got it.  

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

There's a good reason seemingly decent people like Trey Gowdy are getting out of there.  These two parties are assclown central.  The president is a first class douchebag and you can't do anything without it being leaked out.  

I'd add that a huge part of the problem is how career politicians are ruling those parties with an iron fist.  The entire system is set-up to keep movers & shakers from coming in and even questioning the status quo.   They will screw you with no committees, no money and no co-sponsoring bills....and then heavily fund your challenger in the primaries.  You can pretty much guarantee if you don't play ball you'll be a one-termer.

posted by salto

While Trump passes Solar tariffs and mines for more oil.   Got it.  

Let the miners mine; let the solar folks do their thing; get the government out of all of it.

Labor Department: Economy Added 200,000 Jobs In January, Wages Accelerated At Fastest Pace In 8 Years.

The AP (2/2, Rugaber) reported that the Labor Department announced Friday that the US added 200,000 jobs in January, while the unemployment rate “stayed at a low 4.1 percent for the fourth straight month.” In addition, “pay raises, the US economy’s Achilles’ heel in its long recovery from the Great Recession, finally showed signs of accelerating last month.”

Imagine that...