Impressed by the Trump administration part II

posted by ptown_trojans_1

That's the plan so far and suddenly fiscally conservative Tea Party Republicans are all about increasing the debt and deficit. 

 

No we are not, it's a terrible idea. 

posted by ptown_trojans_1

 

I just can't wait in a few years when Rs suddenly return to fiscal conservative type and cry about the debt and deficit when Trump has increased it tremendously. 

No he hasn't, he has increased it bigly.

posted by jmog

No we are not, it's a terrible idea. 

Oh, I know some are, but the leaders of the R party and most of its members are on board. 

posted by jmog

No he hasn't, he has increased it bigly.

Oh, that's right we use bigly now...his increase of the national debt has been beautiful, perfect, and the best in the history of the country. 
 

posted by ptown_trojans_1

Oh, I know some are, but the leaders of the R party and most of its members are on board. 

 

They are scared shitless of the media.

Regardless of the nonsense Trump said early on, he now appears to be in touch with reality on this. I appreciate his frequent briefings and communicating the message that all resources are being deployed. He's doing the the right things and I'm appreciative. 

posted by ptown_trojans_1

I just can't wait in a few years when Rs suddenly return to fiscal conservative type and cry about the debt and deficit when Trump has increased it tremendously. 

The situations really aren't that comparable.  Recessions are part of the normal business cycle.  TARP and the bailouts were paid back (yet somehow that money continued to be spent every year).

This is unique.  Businesses are being ORDERED shut.  They have NO INCOME coming in.  That is very, very different from a recession when they are just losing money.  Airlines have cut routes over 40%, and what they are flying has hardly anyone on board, but they still have to pay full boat on all those leases/debt.

posted by ptown_trojans_1

Oh, that's right we use bigly now...his increase of the national debt has been beautiful, perfect, and the best in the history of the country.

I think he's still on pace to add less debt than Obama...and if he were following the trend of the last 4 guys he'd be adding over $2T a year.

posted by gut

The situations really aren't that comparable.  Recessions are part of the normal business cycle.  TARP and the bailouts were paid back (yet somehow that money continued to be spent every year).

This is unique.  Businesses are being ORDERED shut.  They have NO INCOME coming in.  That is very, very different from a recession when they are just losing money.  Airlines have cut routes over 40%, and what they are flying has hardly anyone on board, but they still have to pay full boat on all those leases/debt.

Bingo

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

Regardless of the nonsense Trump said early on, he now appears to be in touch with reality on this. I appreciate his frequent briefings and communicating the message that all resources are being deployed. He's doing the the right things and I'm appreciative. 

Agreed. He is much better the last week. I think once the serious nature of this thing hit him and the market really did tank, he finally accepted the reality of the situation. 

posted by gut

The situations really aren't that comparable.  Recessions are part of the normal business cycle.  TARP and the bailouts were paid back (yet somehow that money continued to be spent every year).

This is unique.  Businesses are being ORDERED shut.  They have NO INCOME coming in.  That is very, very different from a recession when they are just losing money.  Airlines have cut routes over 40%, and what they are flying has hardly anyone on board, but they still have to pay full boat on all those leases/debt.

Oh agree. This is a unique situation that actually may warrant government action. It is just going to explode the debt and the hardcore conservatives that say no additional funding without cutting elsewhere are silent right now. 

I'm being very cynical right now as I know the situation is unique, but I also know in a few years if there is a D in the White House, the Republican party will once again argue we need to drastically cut the government because the debt is too high. 

posted by gut

I think he's still on pace to add less debt than Obama...and if he were following the trend of the last 4 guys he'd be adding over $2T a year.

Yes. I know, I was going for the Trump language that everything he does is the best in the history of the country. I mean if you told Trump that Obama added more debt, he might want to increase the debt just to beat Obama and say I did it better. 
 

posted by ptown_trojans_1

, I was going for the Trump language that everything he does is the best in the history of the country. I mean if you told Trump that Obama added more debt, he might want to increase the debt just to beat Obama and say I did it better. 
 

 

This is the most beautiful, perfect deficit that's ever been run.  Just like the phone call, it was fantastic.  A deficit like this has never been run before.  A lot of people said "he can't do it", but we did.  Lots of people are amazed with what we accomplished.  Great economists are calling me amazed that I know this stuff so well.  I tell them I had a third cousin who was  chief economist at a bank in Scotland.  Everyone there knew he was a super genius.  His name was Edinburgh Trump.  They named a town after him.

posted by ptown_trojans_1

Yes. I know, I was going for the Trump language that everything he does is the best in the history of the country. I mean if you told Trump that Obama added more debt, he might want to increase the debt just to beat Obama and say I did it better.

LOL

We're looking at $2T+, and maybe even double that depending on how long this goes, and it illustrates the folly of deficit spending.  And, yes, both parties will continue to use that as a political talking point while doing the opposite when they are in control.  But at least initially you can't address it because raising taxes is a short-run headwind which you can't do after a recession.

I would transfer most of this burden to the "0-return" class.  In other words, defer - not cancel - rent and mortgage payments (and car leases).  That mostly just yields a 0% return on those real estate assets at a time everything other class is getting pummeled.  And, indirectly, it's a tax increase on the wealthy (though plenty of pension funds are in real estate).  Same thing with business loans and debt - I'd have to think and do some research, but if you don't do this then you're inviting something worse than the 2008 liquidity crisis.  The underlying fundamentals are still healthy, and you need to preserve that because the defaults that otherwise results are mostly artificial because businesses can't operate.

Then the next relief I offer is your basic utilities are free, up to 120% of your average usage.  I'll bail out the utilities as needed.  I suspend healthcare payments, deductibles and copays - we'll bail out healthcare insurance as needed.  Then I provide money to every family for food. 

I think that all about covers everyone's basic needs.  Look at business/industry bailouts as needed in the aftermath.  I think most industries (think auto, retail, etc) bounce back because of pent-up demand, but airline/hotel/restaurant are going to need help.

posted by Spock

Unlike the dems who gave ALL the money from TARP to big business and banks (who just sat on it).  Recession lasted way to long.  Trump is wanting to give the money right to the people.  Completely different outcome will likely occur.

Careful.  Bush 2's stimulus wasn't exactly anti-corporate welfare.
 

posted by jmog

No he hasn't, he has increased it bigly.

YUUUUUUUUUUGELY.
 

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

Regardless of the nonsense Trump said early on, he now appears to be in touch with reality on this. I appreciate his frequent briefings and communicating the message that all resources are being deployed. He's doing the the right things and I'm appreciative. 

Seriously, credit where it's due.  Someone asked me to grade his job on handling this yesterday, and to that point, I gave him a C.  Slow start, and his blowhard nature made him sound like an idiot early on, but as things progressed, he's leaned more heavily on the experts.  He's come up with solutions which, for better or worse, seem to be instilling confidence from the citizens.  He's treating the matter with an appropriate level of sobriety.  I don't know that I think the stimulus will do much, so I'm not huge on that in theory or in function, but overall, he's acting like head of state finally.

If he keeps this up, I'll likely have to raise my grade on it as well.  He's not just not screwing it up.  He's actually doing well, by all indication.

posted by O-Trap

If he keeps this up, I'll likely have to raise my grade on it as well.  He's not just not screwing it up.  He's actually doing well, by all indication

Once again, if the POTUS has to troubleshoot and come up with ideas, then we are woefully unprepared and royally fucked.

He's to lead/coordinate communication, which he's gotten better at, and then to a much lesser extent he has to make the call among options presented by advisers.  I don't think the latter is as hard as it's made out to be.  In a situation like this, he has basically a blank check and the resources of the armed forces and national guard.  For example, early on banning travel from China drew criticism - would seem like it was a tough call but probably not if he listened to what his advisers were saying.

posted by gut

Once again, if the POTUS has to troubleshoot and come up with ideas, then we are woefully unprepared and royally fucked.

He's to lead/coordinate communication, which he's gotten better at, and then to a much lesser extent he has to make the call among options presented by advisers.  I don't think the latter is as hard as it's made out to be.  In a situation like this, he has basically a blank check and the resources of the armed forces and national guard.  For example, early on banning travel from China drew criticism - would seem like it was a tough call but probably not if he listened to what his advisers were saying.

That action I actually don't love.  Not because it might not be effective if done fully, but because there were so many people who WERE able to travel from China (US citizens and residents) that it probably rendered the ban itself largely ineffective, since the virus' transmission doesn't seem to be affected by nationality.  Whatever percentage of people who would have otherwise entered the country through China, the citizenship or residency of the fraction that was actually able to come is functionally irrelevant from an epidemic perspective.

But like I said, he's gotten notably better with how he's handling it now.

We need a war to get us out of this

!!!

posted by Spock

We need a war to get us out of this

!!!

Should we select a couple of Middle Eastern countries that are "crying out" for freedom?

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

Should we select a couple of Middle Eastern countries that are "crying out" for freedom?

Nah, nuke China for fucking this up in the first place

posted by Spock

We need a war to get us out of this

!!!

That is the most warhawk Republican statement I've ever read.

posted by gut

LOL

We're looking at $2T+, and maybe even double that depending on how long this goes, and it illustrates the folly of deficit spending.  And, yes, both parties will continue to use that as a political talking point while doing the opposite when they are in control.  But at least initially you can't address it because raising taxes is a short-run headwind which you can't do after a recession.

I would transfer most of this burden to the "0-return" class.  In other words, defer - not cancel - rent and mortgage payments (and car leases).  That mostly just yields a 0% return on those real estate assets at a time everything other class is getting pummeled.  And, indirectly, it's a tax increase on the wealthy (though plenty of pension funds are in real estate).  Same thing with business loans and debt - I'd have to think and do some research, but if you don't do this then you're inviting something worse than the 2008 liquidity crisis.  The underlying fundamentals are still healthy, and you need to preserve that because the defaults that otherwise results are mostly artificial because businesses can't operate.

Then the next relief I offer is your basic utilities are free, up to 120% of your average usage.  I'll bail out the utilities as needed.  I suspend healthcare payments, deductibles and copays - we'll bail out healthcare insurance as needed.  Then I provide money to every family for food. 

I think that all about covers everyone's basic needs.  Look at business/industry bailouts as needed in the aftermath.  I think most industries (think auto, retail, etc) bounce back because of pent-up demand, but airline/hotel/restaurant are going to need help.

Yeah, that all makes sense and is the common sense way to approach it. I doubt that will actually happen, but as Trump says, we'll see what happens. 

I do have a thought that if we bailout the airlines and hotels that the payments should have strings attached. As in: No fucking bag or change fees or no stock buy back options until funds are fully paid back to the government. 

posted by O-Trap

Careful.  Bush 2's stimulus wasn't exactly anti-corporate welfare.
 

posted by jmog

No he hasn't, he has increased it bigly.

 

YUUUUUUUUUUGELY.
 

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

Regardless of the nonsense Trump said early on, he now appears to be in touch with reality on this. I appreciate his frequent briefings and communicating the message that all resources are being deployed. He's doing the the right things and I'm appreciative. 

Seriously, credit where it's due.  Someone asked me to grade his job on handling this yesterday, and to that point, I gave him a C.  Slow start, and his blowhard nature made him sound like an idiot early on, but as things progressed, he's leaned more heavily on the experts.  He's come up with solutions which, for better or worse, seem to be instilling confidence from the citizens.  He's treating the matter with an appropriate level of sobriety.  I don't know that I think the stimulus will do much, so I'm not huge on that in theory or in function, but overall, he's acting like head of state finally.

If he keeps this up, I'll likely have to raise my grade on it as well.  He's not just not screwing it up.  He's actually doing well, by all indication.

 

I'll give credit to Trump for acting like an adult now, although his twitter account still sounds like a toddler. He is finally stepping back and letting the experts take over. Some of the stuff he did the last few days should have been done a few weeks ago, but hey, better late than never...

posted by Spock

We need a war to get us out of this

!!!

LOL. Sure....

posted by Spock

We need a war to get us out of this

!!!

Where’s John Bolton when you need him?

LOL