Guns and Mass Shootings

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This rhetoric is why no one trusts the democrats to not go all out on banning all guns. I’m still waiting to hear from some of you lefties how not securing the border resulting in thousands of fentanyl deaths doesn’t need changed, nor does defunding special police who only look for illegal firearms, but somehow scary gun laws need changed. Try enforcing actual laws before adding more that only hurt law abiding citizens. Doing something just to do something isn’t a plan. 

Rep. Mondaire Jones (D-NY):

"You will not stop us from passing [gun control]. If the filibuster obstructs us, we will abolish it. If the Supreme Court objects, we will expand. We will not rest until we've taken weapons of war out of our communities." pic.twitter.com/0x3t1aJXBn

— Greg Price (@greg_price11) June 2, 2022

posted by iclfan2

This rhetoric is why no one trusts the democrats to not go all out on banning all guns. I’m still waiting to hear from some of you lefties how not securing the border resulting in thousands of fentanyl deaths doesn’t need changed, nor does defunding special police who only look for illegal firearms, but somehow scary gun laws need changed. Try enforcing actual laws before adding more that only hurt law abiding citizens. Doing something just to do something isn’t a plan. 

Rep. Mondaire Jones (D-NY):

"You will not stop us from passing [gun control]. If the filibuster obstructs us, we will abolish it. If the Supreme Court objects, we will expand. We will not rest until we've taken weapons of war out of our communities." pic.twitter.com/0x3t1aJXBn

— Greg Price (@greg_price11) June 2, 2022

Maybe don't mention illegal gun task force with We Own the City just finishing...

I don't know, maybe one idea is we could bring back a waiting period of certain firearms. The guy in Tulsa bought an AR15 style the day before shooting up the hospital.

Also, quoting one house member is dumb. That one member has the same power as someone crazy on the right. 

Many cities cancelled special task forces on guns. And many jurisdictions let people with gun offenses go. So either prosecute people, regardless of race (we all know that’s why they stopped), or stop with the hysterical we must do something trash. So the guy in Tulsa or Uvalde wait 3 days, then what? No one has proven a law would stop 90% of these shootings. And 90% of  “mass shootings” happen in the places y’all ignore. After the Covid overreach, I don’t blame anyone not wanting to work with the government on their absolute clown overreach. And the border portion is extra laughable. Way more Americans die of drugs from there than illegal guns. But ho hum.

posted by iclfan2

Many cities cancelled special task forces on guns. And many jurisdictions let people with gun offenses go. So either prosecute people, regardless of race (we all know that’s why they stopped), or stop with the hysterical we must do something trash. So the guy in Tulsa or Uvalde wait 3 days, then what? No one has proven a law would stop 90% of these shootings. And 90% of  “mass shootings” happen in the places y’all ignore. After the Covid overreach, I don’t blame anyone not wanting to work with the government on their absolute clown overreach. And the border portion is extra laughable. Way more Americans die of drugs from there than illegal guns. But ho hum.

Apparently you didn't understood my comment. The Baltimore task force was corrupt as hell and now they are sitting in federal prison. Just watch We Own This City. 

How about a 10-15 day waiting period for non handguns? Would it have stopped this guy, unknown. But, it may have deterred him or limited the damage. He still may have shot up the place, but only with a handgun.

Having someone wait a period of time before purchasing a deadly weapon that can kill many seems like a reasonable idea. We used to have something like that back in the day. 

No I didn’t understand your comment bc Baltimore is a shit hole. You still haven’t commented on the fact you are full aware of less policing and people getting bail that shouldn’t. So why add new laws if you just let people go anyway. OK, add a wait period and make them be 21, but if they get it elsewhere, what is the punishment? A slap on the wrist? And what about the border, just forget that it kills way more people than guns through drugs? How do you pick and choose what you care about?

posted by iclfan2

No I didn’t understand your comment bc Baltimore is a shit hole. You still haven’t commented on the fact you are full aware of less policing and people getting bail that shouldn’t. So why add new laws if you just let people go anyway. OK, add a wait period and make them be 21, but if they get it elsewhere, what is the punishment? A slap on the wrist? And what about the border, just forget that it kills way more people than guns through drugs? How do you pick and choose what you care about?

You are lumping a lot of issues in together as an excuse. The sensible solution is to chop up the problems into different policy solutions bucket, making it more likely to actually achieve a workable policy. 

Policing, drug policy, bail reform, gun purchasing, and the border are all big topics on their own. 

You should just watch We Own This City just for Jon Bernthal as Wayne Jenkins. 

posted by ptown_trojans_1

How about a 10-15 day waiting period for non handguns? 

posted by superman
Cool. How about a 10-15 day waiting for the media to publish anything in electronic format? How about a 10-15 day waiting before you're allowed to speak out in Public while I do a background check on you? How about we let cops lock you up  without cause before you due process? 

So, you are perfectly fine with someone just walking up, buying a high powered rifle and then that same day mowing down people? 

You don't think having someone wait a few days would not help at all? Is that such a huge inconvenience for people? 

Also, are you really comparing all these to gun sales? You are making a pen is mightier than the sword argument ha. 

posted by ptown_trojans_1

So, you are perfectly fine with someone just walking up, buying a high powered rifle and then that same day mowing down people? 

The problem is the "what is seen, what is not seen" issue. A waiting period may have the desired effect in some cases (what is seen). However, how many people in imminent danger would be harmed by having to wait to get the means to defend their life (what is not seen)?

posted by ptown_trojans_1

Apparently you didn't understood my comment. The Baltimore task force was corrupt as hell and now they are sitting in federal prison. Just watch We Own This City. 

How about a 10-15 day waiting period for non handguns? Would it have stopped this guy, unknown. But, it may have deterred him or limited the damage. He still may have shot up the place, but only with a handgun.

Having someone wait a period of time before purchasing a deadly weapon that can kill many seems like a reasonable idea. We used to have something like that back in the day. 

So he would have shot the doctors 10 days later than he did. ?!?! 

posted by ptown_trojans_1

So, you are perfectly fine with someone just walking up, buying a high powered rifle and then that same day mowing down people? 

How moronic.

Be better.

posted by ptown_trojans_1

So, you are perfectly fine with someone just walking up, buying a high powered rifle and then that same day mowing down people? 

You don't think having someone wait a few days would not help at all? Is that such a huge inconvenience for people? 

Also, are you really comparing all these to gun sales? You are making a pen is mightier than the sword argument ha. 

You ruin your whole argument with your first paragraph. The “so you are ok with someone mowing people down” just makes you look like an ass.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/paulhsieh/2018/04/30/that-time-the-cdc-asked-about-defensive-gun-uses/?sh=780625fa299a

older article, but relevant points can be gleaned

posted by queencitybuckeye

The problem is the "what is seen, what is not seen" issue. A waiting period may have the desired effect in some cases (what is seen). However, how many people in imminent danger would be harmed by having to wait to get the means to defend their life (what is not seen)?

You can still buy a hand gun without a waiting period in my example, to protect yourself. 

posted by jmog

You ruin your whole argument with your first paragraph. The “so you are ok with someone mowing people down” just makes you look like an ass.

Oh OK. I'm sorry if I find something wrong with someone can easily buy a high powered rifle with little to no restrictions or waiting period. 

posted by QuakerOats

So he would have shot the doctors 10 days later than he did. ?!?! 

We don't know that for sure. But, just making it that much harder for an angry person to buy a high powered rifle may have. 

I don't see how this is a controversial thing. High powered rifles should be in another classification that shotguns, hand guns. Putting restrictions on them is one easy step of many that could be used to help slow these events. 

https://fee.org/articles/are-ar-15-rifles-a-public-safety-threat-heres-what-the-data-say/

posted by ptown_trojans_1

Oh OK. I'm sorry if I find something wrong with someone can easily buy a high powered rifle with little to no restrictions or waiting period. 

There is little practical difference vs. being able to buy a semi-auto handgun and a few mags.  You seem fixated on the "weapon of war" bullshit, when reality is what kind of gun they have makes little difference once they get into a school.  I mean, a 9mm will explode the lung, which sounds pretty awful.

I think the only case where the "weapon of war" made an actual difference was the Vegas shooter, where the distance involved makes the rifle far more effective.

I don't think a 3-day waiting period is a big deal, but I also don't think it's going to make any difference at all with these mass shooters.  But I don't see the logic behind waiting until you're 21 to buy a handgun, but you can buy a rifle at 18.

Didn't know Canada had a problem with mass shootings, and didn't even know they had guns.  Their gun laws are very strict, but apparently a similar problem with mass shooters (just not schools).  I didn't vet the stats, but WSJ article said 85% of guns used in crimes in Canada are illegally imported from the US.  The lesson here is sweeping gun bans will only serve to keep guns out of the hands of law abiding citizens (but this should be obvious if you look at the success of the war on drugs).

posted by queencitybuckeye

https://fee.org/articles/are-ar-15-rifles-a-public-safety-threat-heres-what-the-data-say/

As Dick Cheney used to say about certain aspects of war, some things are low probability, high impact. 

Yes, hand guns and knifes account for more total deaths, but in terms of higher impact events, high powered riffles produce more damage and more deaths per event. 

I get it guys, but what is the same weapon used in all of these high public mass shootings...a high powered rifle. 

They are different and I don't see how basically having zero restrictions on them makes any sense.