Disgusted with the Government thread

justincredible Honorable Admin
37,969 posts 216 reps Joined Nov 2009
Fri, May 7, 2021 1:40 PM

This can be a catch all for highlighting the nonsense of the government, at all levels, when it's not specific to progressives, conservatives, Biden, Trump, etc.


Spock Senior Member
5,271 posts 9 reps Joined Jul 2013
Sun, May 9, 2021 9:39 AM

Lets start with what parts of the Federal government should not exist:


Department of Education



gut Senior Member
18,369 posts 98 reps Joined Nov 2009
Sun, May 9, 2021 2:01 PM

The face/de-facto leaders of the respective parties are basically AOC and Trump.

/thread

Heretic Son of the Sun
20,517 posts 192 reps Joined Nov 2009
Sun, May 9, 2021 7:10 PM
posted by gut

The face/de-facto leaders of the respective parties are basically AOC and Trump.

/thread

To add onto that: For years, we've mentioned from time to time that the problem with Washington is that it's populated with cynical career politicians like Pelosi and McConnell, who are more concerned with cementing their power and keeping things revolving around them, regardless of whether they are actually even remotely good for the country. The general opinion tended to be that it'd be nice to disrupt that shit and get new blood in that isn't happy to be bought, paid for and serving mainly to enrich themselves and impede the other party.

And so we have AOC/the Squad on one side and we have Trump and his QAnon followers on the other. Uh, when I said I didn't want career politicians, I wasn't suggesting to replace them with the over-the-top aggressively stupid, guys!

justincredible Honorable Admin
37,969 posts 216 reps Joined Nov 2009
Tue, May 11, 2021 9:15 AM

Every single alphabet agency should be disbanded. Yes, even that one. Given that they all write their own laws in the form of "regulations", we're essentially ruled by unelected bureaucrats. And given that their budgets are of the "use it or lose it" variety, they have ZERO incentive to not waste tax dollars at an absurd level.

8,788 posts 21 reps Joined Nov 2009
Tue, May 11, 2021 9:41 AM
posted by justincredible

Every single alphabet agency should be disbanded. Yes, even that one. Given that they all write their own laws in the form of "regulations", we're essentially ruled by unelected bureaucrats. And given that their budgets are of the "use it or lose it" variety, they have ZERO incentive to not waste tax dollars at an absurd level.

Walk me through that. 

Would you enact a law of Congress to effectively disband every single agency in the Government at a certain date? Would the workers then be placed on pause/ hold until that date, say the start of the Fiscal Year, 10/1? 

Would some of them come back in some form if their budgets have more direct oversight by Congress? 

Or, would it be more, every agency will be disbanded on 10/1 and we will be starting for scratch? 

How would ensure that some aspects for national security and cyber security are not disrupted, or would those also be placed on pause? 

How would coordinate this across branches as you have to have the President and the Congress in lockstep?  Otherwise, one branch would try and control/ limit the other. 

I get what you are trying to say, but I think it is just too impractical and a libertarian fantasy. 

justincredible Honorable Admin
37,969 posts 216 reps Joined Nov 2009
Tue, May 11, 2021 9:53 AM

I'm under no illusion that this will actually happen.

But Thomas Massie has the right idea with his bills to end the DoE.

https://massie.house.gov/news/documentsingle.aspx?DocumentID=395319

Representative Thomas Massie announces that he has introduced H.R. 899, a bill to abolish the federal Department of Education. The bill, which is one sentence long, states, “The Department of Education shall terminate on December 31, 2022.”
justincredible Honorable Admin
37,969 posts 216 reps Joined Nov 2009
Tue, May 11, 2021 9:55 AM

We'll just slowly grind ourselves down into an authoritarian shithole.

justincredible Honorable Admin
37,969 posts 216 reps Joined Nov 2009
Tue, May 11, 2021 9:57 AM
posted by ptown_trojans_1

I get what you are trying to say, but I think it is just too impractical and a libertarian fantasy. 

No shit?

8,788 posts 21 reps Joined Nov 2009
Tue, May 11, 2021 10:02 AM
posted by justincredible

I'm under no illusion that this will actually happen.

But Thomas Massie has the right idea with his bills to end the DoE.

https://massie.house.gov/news/documentsingle.aspx?DocumentID=395319

Representative Thomas Massie announces that he has introduced H.R. 899, a bill to abolish the federal Department of Education. The bill, which is one sentence long, states, “The Department of Education shall terminate on December 31, 2022.”

The only thing with getting rid of Education is the DoE is in change of student loans. So, what happens to those? Private sector? Because, the private sector loans are even worse than the feds. Or, does the student loans go under a different aspect of government?

Student loans are actually a rare area where I think the government is better than the private sector, and that is my own personal experience with private and public student loans. 


justincredible Honorable Admin
37,969 posts 216 reps Joined Nov 2009
Tue, May 11, 2021 10:08 AM

The government should not be involved in student loans. 

8,788 posts 21 reps Joined Nov 2009
Tue, May 11, 2021 10:11 AM
posted by justincredible

The government should not be involved in student loans. 

They are more trusted and better than the private sector. Interest rates are better, payment options are better, and overall experience is better. 

I'd take the DOE loans over Sallie Mae/ whatever it is called now, any day of the week, 


justincredible Honorable Admin
37,969 posts 216 reps Joined Nov 2009
8,788 posts 21 reps Joined Nov 2009
Tue, May 11, 2021 10:19 AM
posted by justincredible

https://fee.org/articles/how-government-guaranteed-student-loans-killed-the-american-dream-for-millions/

I agree with the sentiment of the article, that college is not for everyone.  Trade school/ vocational schools should be more popular. But to suggest that colleges should offer their own loans is not financially feasible nor realistic. They would most likely turn into copy cat private sector sharks like Sallie Mae. 

If anything, the for profit college mess shows that institutions cannot be trusted. 

brutus161 The Navy Guy
1,688 posts 17 reps Joined Nov 2009
Tue, May 11, 2021 11:46 AM
posted by ptown_trojans_1

I agree with the sentiment of the article, that college is not for everyone.  Trade school/ vocational schools should be more popular. But to suggest that colleges should offer their own loans is not financially feasible nor realistic. They would most likely turn into copy cat private sector sharks like Sallie Mae. 

If anything, the for profit college mess shows that institutions cannot be trusted. 

Exactly. Instead of figuring out how Americans are going to pay for things like student loans and health care. Start focusing on why these things cost what they do. I understand initial costs of items, but when colleges force text books that cost hundreds of dollars, and the book is never used, there is a breakdown in the process. Additionally, paying a huge markup for simple drugs that have been around forever is also stupid. Yes, it costs millions upon millions to develop a new drug, but that is why drug manufacturers have a window of exclusivity before a generic version can be made. This allows for the companies to get their investment back. However, paying more than a few cents for a tylenol or motrin during a hospital stay is straight robbery. 

justincredible Honorable Admin
37,969 posts 216 reps Joined Nov 2009
Tue, May 11, 2021 11:52 AM

Government red tape is commonly a major factor in prices going crazy, as well, thanks to the alphabet agencies.

justincredible Honorable Admin
37,969 posts 216 reps Joined Nov 2009
Tue, May 11, 2021 11:58 AM

How about civil asset forfeiture? If the feds cared about American citizens in the slightest, they would have banned this practice at the federal level before it started. But they don't, so many states rob their own citizens for profit. And cops are incentivized to partake in the practice because they get to keep a lot of the toys they steal. Sure, some of it is taken from drug dealers, but a lot of innocent people get wrapped up in the process with almost no recourse. The claim that you have due process but your possessions do not so we can take them without charging you with an actual crime is one of the most absurd distortions of rights I have ever heard.

Dr Winston O'Boogie Senior Member
3,345 posts 28 reps Joined Oct 2010
Tue, May 11, 2021 12:01 PM
posted by ptown_trojans_1

They are more trusted and better than the private sector. Interest rates are better, payment options are better, and overall experience is better. 

I'd take the DOE loans over Sallie Mae/ whatever it is called now, any day of the week, 


Guaranteed government student loans are why college educations worth little cost $30k per year.  Had government never gotten involved, it is reasonable to think college education would have been attainable to those who wanted it without loans (perhaps with a job during college to help pay).  This is how college worked for many decades.  It was a privilege but it was affordable to anyone determined to go without the baggage of years of debt.  Once easy money came into the picture, colleges started jacking up tuition and  building shit at a ferocious rate.  Meanwhile, the entire population was brainwashed into this idea that everyone should go to college.  


So I disagree that government student loans are done well.  I see them as part of the overrall racket.  

justincredible Honorable Admin
37,969 posts 216 reps Joined Nov 2009
Tue, May 11, 2021 12:03 PM
posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

Guaranteed government student loans are why college educations worth little cost $30k per year.  Had government never gotten involved, it is reasonable to think college education would have been attainable to those who wanted it without loans (perhaps with a job during college to help pay).  This is how college worked for many decades.  It was a privilege but it was affordable to anyone determined to go without the baggage of years of debt.  Once easy money came into the picture, colleges started jacking up tuition and  building shit at a ferocious rate.  Meanwhile, the entire population was brainwashed into this idea that everyone should go to college.  


So I disagree that government student loans are done well.  I see them as part of the overrall racket.  

This is ultimately how I look at the situation as well. College costs when crazy when the govt got involved. Healthcare costs went crazy when the govt got involved. The housing market went crazy when the govt got involved. It's like there's a pattern...

queencitybuckeye Senior Member
8,068 posts 115 reps Joined Nov 2009
Tue, May 11, 2021 12:31 PM
posted by ptown_trojans_1

They are more trusted and better than the private sector. Interest rates are better, payment options are better, and overall experience is better. 

I'd take the DOE loans over Sallie Mae/ whatever it is called now, any day of the week, 


Schools should fund student loans from their endowments. The days of $75K per year for Underwater Basket Weaving majors would end immediately.

Your argument that schools couldn't take this task on is simply "Argumentum ad Governmentum". They can, but of course don't want to give up the golden egg.


ernest_t_bass 12th Son of the Lama
26,698 posts 200 reps Joined Nov 2009
Tue, May 11, 2021 2:30 PM

All states should be "at fault" states in dissolution/divorce.  

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