posted by geeblockDiversity , equity, inclusion are all good things.
Equity is not a good ideology at all. Equality is, and there is a major difference.
Equity talks about equalizing outcomes rather than equality trying to equality opportunities.
Equity is a terrible idea.
posted by Dr Winston O'BoogieI think he’s obviously referring to the part of DEI that is completely out of control - shutting out free speech, ostracizing people who do not support certain beliefs or lifestyles, etc. In many institutions, these things are happening with frequent regularity. If you attend an elite Ivy League graduate school today, it is a fascist like environment if you don’t support what a DEI office espouses.
I think the fighting back is against this.
This is much of what she was talking about. I have listed another fraction of the problem in other posts. It's a suckass practice being dressed up as something pretty and meaningful.
Other reasons it sucks:
It's very costly with little to show for the added expense. So now not only do companies have an HR department, but also a DEI department. HR people are skilled enough to make these choices, but now there is an added sector that also needs to be paid. The DEI department gets paid to sit back and make their choices based on the Progressive Stack for the idea of parity. By necessity, it needs to use racism and bigotry to be carried out *properly*.
This is one of the major reasons that colleges, for example, are getting more and more expensive with their tuition fees. They have to support an added administrative class. This makes it harder for people from low income families to get higher learning. In simple terms, DEI uses muh pronouns! and muh looks! as cover to continue class warfare.
The activists class loves all of this. Keep in mind that issues that they activate for can never been seen as solved as that would put them right out of business, stop the money flow. And as the 80's, 90's and early 00's were getting further and further away from giving a shit about what people looked like or what they claimed they were, the activist class saw the writing on the wall and knew they had to come up with something better than what they had in order to keep the cash flow thriving and often political careers afloat. Hence, the Progressive Stack became a thing; and from there we now see things like DEI and ESG.
We see the same thing happening with the Armageddon church. For the past 40 years they have been banging on the pulpit about how the end of days is nigh. It's good money and certainly advantageous political power.
posted by jmogI agreeEquity is not a good ideology at all. Equality is, and there is a major difference.
Equity talks about equalizing outcomes rather than equality trying to equality opportunities.
Equity is a terrible idea.
posted by CenterBHSFanThis is much of what she was talking about. I have listed another fraction of the problem in other posts. It's a suckass practice being dressed up as something pretty and meaningful.
Other reasons it sucks:
It's very costly with little to show for the added expense. So now not only do companies have an HR department, but also a DEI department. HR people are skilled enough to make these choices, but now there is an added sector that also needs to be paid. The DEI department gets paid to sit back and make their choices based on the Progressive Stack for the idea of parity. By necessity, it needs to use racism and bigotry to be carried out *properly*.
This is one of the major reasons that colleges, for example, are getting more and more expensive with their tuition fees. They have to support an added administrative class. This makes it harder for people from low income families to get higher learning. In simple terms, DEI uses muh pronouns! and muh looks! as cover to continue class warfare.
The activists class loves all of this. Keep in mind that issues that they activate for can never been seen as solved as that would put them right out of business, stop the money flow. And as the 80's, 90's and early 00's were getting further and further away from giving a shit about what people looked like or what they claimed they were, the activist class saw the writing on the wall and knew they had to come up with something better than what they had in order to keep the cash flow thriving and often political careers afloat. Hence, the Progressive Stack became a thing; and from there we now see things like DEI and ESG.
We see the same thing happening with the Armageddon church. For the past 40 years they have been banging on the pulpit about how the end of days is nigh. It's good money and certainly advantageous political power.
Man we could have used you out front fighting for racism the last 50 years lol
I’m just glad to that everyone is finally on board with equality.
posted by geeblockI’m just glad to that everyone is finally on board with equality.
The best he's got lol
Nobody was /against/ equality.
In Geeblock's case, he obviously chooses to conflate the two to mean the same thing. Understanding definitions certainly won't let him keep his ideology.
It's no wonder he argues for the things he does lol
I’ll leave you with this and the. We can move on. I don’t think companies look at diversity hires or promotions and assume that the person can’t do the job as mentioned here. I don’t think whatever that paragraph cbhs wrote about some conglomerate dept in a company that wastes money is remotely true. I think companies look at diversity as a way to grow their business and creativity to make sure they are getting the most out of their most important resource which is people. It doesn’t have to be a fearful scary thing to self reflect as a company. If anything the business growth often will outweigh any expense.
posted by geeblockI’m just glad to that everyone is finally on board with equality.
I don’t think anyone on this board has ever not been for equality.
You want equity which is an idiotic ideology
posted by geeblockI’ll leave you with this and the. We can move on. I don’t think companies look at diversity hires or promotions and assume that the person can’t do the job as mentioned here. I don’t think whatever that paragraph cbhs wrote about some conglomerate dept in a company that wastes money is remotely true. I think companies look at diversity as a way to grow their business and creativity to make sure they are getting the most out of their most important resource which is people. It doesn’t have to be a fearful scary thing to self reflect as a company. If anything the business growth often will outweigh any expense.
A whole big paragraph that proves you have never worked in private industry.
posted by jmogA whole big paragraph that proves you have never worked in private industry.
LOL....I think DEI goes the way of ESG.
Most companies, either because of lawsuits or recognizing the value in diversity, went that way a long time ago. Today's DEI and ESG are not about fundamentals, but like so many other things "virtue signaling".
It's really all quite humorous to me. When you break it down, while none of these groups/initiatives explicitly exclude anyone, the programs are essentially a way for like-minded individuals to form their own cliques.
If certain individuals don't understand why people view some of this as "reverse" discrimination (a.k.a simply discrimination), it's probably because they don't see the irony with the inherent exclusion. As is often the case, it's more about getting even than getting equity. Take women in business, for example. It's an answer to the "old boys network". But it's not an inclusive, all-encompassing mentoring network that one might expect with DEI. No, it's about creating equity by starting your own version of the "in club".
posted by geeblockI don’t think whatever that paragraph cbhs wrote about some conglomerate dept in a company that wastes money is remotely true.
HR Department at every Fortune 500 company where I’ve worked: “Hold my beer.”
posted by geeblockNot to belabor the point, but this sentence proves you have never worked at even a remotely decent size private company.. I don’t think whatever that paragraph cbhs wrote about some conglomerate dept in a company that wastes money is remotely true.
posted by Dr Winston O'BoogieHR Department at every Fortune 500 company where I’ve worked: “Hold my beer.”
And same for private held equity firms who need to virtue signal
posted by geeblockAre you familiar with the WNBA?I don’t think whatever that paragraph cbhs wrote about some conglomerate dept in a company that wastes money is remotely true. I
posted by jmog
Not to belabor the point, but this sentence proves you have never worked at even a remotely decent size private company.
no I dont think the DEI dept in a decent size company is vastly large consuming large amounts of resources. I dont think liberals have some large conspiracy to create large govt institutions inside of companies or whatever was being alleged.
This has nothing to do with the discussion or my comment but to answer your question I currently work with Amazon/Boeing to bring a flightworks training program to vocational schools to train students to work in the Airplane building industry. A big part of the program for first year students in semester 1 is about Innovation/invention and a large part of that involves the creative process. Both of these companies believe that the more diverse the group is, that the better it is because you have more ideas from different cultures and different ways of thinking. This along with self reflection activities on leadership and what type of personality each person is are also key to the first semester of learning. ( edit.. they 100% created the program not the schools)
posted by geeblockno I dont think the DEI dept in a decent size company is vastly large consuming large amounts of resources. I dont think liberals have some large conspiracy to create large govt institutions inside of companies or whatever was being alleged.
This has nothing to do with the discussion or my comment but to answer your question I currently work with Amazon/Boeing to bring a flightworks training program to vocational schools to train students to work in the Airplane building industry. A big part of the program for first year students in semester 1 is about Innovation/invention and a large part of that involves the creative process. Both of these companies believe that the more diverse the group is, that the better it is because you have more ideas from different cultures and different ways of thinking. This along with self reflection activities on leadership and what type of personality each person is are also key to the first semester of learning.
Working with is not the same as working for, hope that helps.
Again, you haven't worked for one of these companies if you don't understand the vast waste of time and money most of these programs are, they are a huge resource sink hole.
I am not even saying they have bad intentions or are bad people, most of them are great and are really trying to do good and believe in their ideology. But that's a shit ton of salaries in a department that doesn't change anything other than making everyone else go through monthly or quarterly DEI training, which is ALWAYS repetitive (same shit we saw last quarter).
So my company has over 66,000 employees world wide. Thats roughly 250,000 man hours of DEI training each and every year which basically boils down to "don't treat people like shit, be nice to everyone" which every human being already knows. We all know you don't act like a fool at work if you want to keep working.
So if the average hourly wage from low end to CEO is $40/hr (probably close for us) that's $10,000,000 per year used up on DEI training on top of whatever all of the DEI employees make year round.
I'm not saying that is a total loss, because sure, maybe a couple people didn't know they shouldn't be an asshole or that they couldn't pass up someone for a promotion just because they are black, but in 2023 that is like 1 person in that 66,000 employees.
posted by geeblockDiversity , equity, inclusion are all good things.
No, not necessarily. Diversity for the sake of diversity is not a good thing, it can actually lead to bad outcomes.
Equity is essentially Marxism.
Inclusion ........not exactly sure what the warriors mean by it, but obviously including the views of others can help in decision-making, but only if the views have merit.
Merit is what we should ALL be striving for; that is what is important, not how many boxes you can check.
posted by jmogWorking with is not the same as working for, hope that helps.
Again, you haven't worked for one of these companies if you don't understand the vast waste of time and money most of these programs are, they are a huge resource sink hole.
I am not even saying they have bad intentions or are bad people, most of them are great and are really trying to do good and believe in their ideology. But that's a shit ton of salaries in a department that doesn't change anything other than making everyone else go through monthly or quarterly DEI training, which is ALWAYS repetitive (same shit we saw last quarter).
So my company has over 66,000 employees world wide. Thats roughly 250,000 man hours of DEI training each and every year which basically boils down to "don't treat people like shit, be nice to everyone" which every human being already knows. We all know you don't act like a fool at work if you want to keep working.
So if the average hourly wage from low end to CEO is $40/hr (probably close for us) that's $10,000,000 per year used up on DEI training on top of whatever all of the DEI employees make year round.
I'm not saying that is a total loss, because sure, maybe a couple people didn't know they shouldn't be an asshole or that they couldn't pass up someone for a promotion just because they are black, but in 2023 that is like 1 person in that 66,000 employees.
there are many aspects to it besides employee training which I wouldnt argue with this
Not that it matters, like I said I had that opinion before I started working with them so I dont know why you had to throw in the hope that helps part. I guess you just cant help being a condescending asshole but
Also, yes I work for directly for Boeing in the summer, I spent 8 weeks in Alabama the last 2 summers, and they are paying for my training to go back to school to learn how to use all of the tools and machines, so that in the future even my teacher salary will be paid through Amazon/Boeing as a Teacher On Special Assignment, and If I want I will have the opportunity to not teach at all and help them expand the program around the country. It's Actually very exciting i'm hoping our new school superintendent sticks with the program.
posted by geeblock
Not that it matters, like I said I had that opinion before I started working with them so I dont know why you had to throw in the hope that helps part. I guess you just cant help being a condescending asshole but
I do have a tendency to be a condescending asshole online when people say absolutely stupid shit. I am working on that, not perfect here.
But trying to say that equity is desirable, is stupid shit.
Trying to say that DEI, for the most part, isn't a huge resource sink hole for most companies, is stupid shit.
If they were Diversity, Equality, and Inclusion with some restrictions (diversity because being diverse is a good idea, but not forced diversity like Affirmative Action...etc) then their ideology and programs may start to make sense.
But blanket statements like "by 2025 our executive board will be >50% minorities" without even knowing if there are qualified applicants is "stupid shit" just for appeasing people.
How about we just work on making sure everyone has the same opportunity without talking about trying to guarantee the same outcomes, because that is Marxist stupid shit.
Again, I will work on the condescending shit like "hope that helps", but it typically only comes out when people type absolutely stupid shit.
