Disgusted by the Trump administration part II

posted by Verbal Kint

From what I understand, equity is not equality, it appears it is conflated as such

How would you say this relates to your MLK quote?

posted by geeblock

How would you say this relates to your MLK quote?

From my readings, appears that MLK was for equality, that all persons would be treated equally

Probably impossible, as some sectors of persons are judged on color of skin rather than ability

That is abhorrent 

posted by Verbal Kint

From my readings, appears that MLK was for equality, that all persons would be treated equally

 

Probably impossible, as some sectors of persons are judged on color of skin rather than ability

That is abhorrent 

Do you think that all people have always been treated fairly? If no when did they start getting treated fairly? Do you think all people are getting treated fairly now?

posted by geeblock

Do you think that all people have always been treated fairly? If no when did they start getting treated fairly? Do you think all people are getting treated fairly now?

no

posted by Verbal Kint

no

That's what usually happens lol

I am not in control of what has occurred in the past

I view persons on merits

Treatment based upon appearance (or background) is disgusting

posted by geeblock

Gotta be a pretty big scumbag to fight against DEI 

Not if your company's DEI program includes hiring quotas like Affirmative Action. Then its a great idea to fight against it.

If its seriously ONLY about not discriminating against minorities then yeah, obviously you would have to be a scumbag to fight against it.

However, many places include their hiring practices/quotas along in their DEI program and that's where the problems start to arise.

posted by geeblock

I hear people all the nowadays calling every reference from jackie robinson to ruby bridges...CRT.

Bull shit, not on here anyway, unless you are talking about morons on twitter that's bull shit.

posted by geeblock

Do you think that all people have always been treated fairly? If no when did they start getting treated fairly? Do you think all people are getting treated fairly now?

Institutionally people started being treated "fairly" in the 1960s.

Actually by real people in about the 80s/90s.

Nearly everyone in the 60s were racist, now actual racists are a VERY fringe part of society, to the point that statistically "everyone" is treated fairly based on their race/ethnicity/sex/orientation here in the USA. Of course there are some statistically small percentage of racists that would refuse to hire a person of color, but those are down to the anecdotal cases rather than statistically happening in the grand scheme of things.

And Verbal is right, equality is great, equity is abhorrent as a policy. Everyone should be given the same opportunity (equality), but equity means everyone should end up with the same result, which is a new word for communism/socialist/etc. 

posted by jmog

Not if your company's DEI program includes hiring quotas like Affirmative Action. Then its a great idea to fight against it.

If its seriously ONLY about not discriminating against minorities then yeah, obviously you would have to be a scumbag to fight against it.

However, many places include their hiring practices/quotas along in their DEI program and that's where the problems start to arise.

Do you think more people in a year get a job/promotion because of their race or lose out on job or aren’t given an opportunity because of their race?

(Not trying to have a gotcha moment) just want to know perspective. 

posted by geeblock

Do you think more people in a year get a job/promotion because of their race or lose out on job or aren’t given an opportunity because of their race?

(Not trying to have a gotcha moment) just want to know perspective. 

The problem with your question is that there is no way to ever know the answer to it.  Except in a rare exception, people don't state they made a hire/promotion or terminated someone because of race.  Even if they don't believe it factored in, it could have subconsciously.  You can never know what is in someone's thoughts.  But you can look at things from a macro level and see where problems may lie.  If it can be proven that there is systematic bias against a race, then there are mechanisms which should be used to deal with that.  That will never make he problem completely go away, but it dissuades all but the most dedicated racists from acting on their biases.  The problem today is we operate from a position of presumption of guilt and thus quotas, profiling on applications, forced diversity training, etc.  It is all  imposed with threat of loss of employment, expulsion, ostracized socially, whatever.  

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

The problem with your question is that there is no way to ever know the answer to it.  Except in a rare exception, people don't state they made a hire/promotion or terminated someone because of race.  Even if they don't believe it factored in, it could have subconsciously.  You can never know what is in someone's thoughts.  But you can look at things from a macro level and see where problems may lie.  If it can be proven that there is systematic bias against a race, then there are mechanisms which should be used to deal with that.  That will never make he problem completely go away, but it dissuades all but the most dedicated racists from acting on their biases.  The problem today is we operate from a position of presumption of guilt and thus quotas, profiling on applications, forced diversity training, etc.  It is all  imposed with threat of loss of employment, expulsion, ostracized socially, whatever.  

I was asking for an opinion. We give opinions all the time on tough questions. I also don’t think it has to be all that nefarious. Access to connections and networks for some groups do to family histories in many areas and companies can have the same effect. Doesn’t make someone racist or a bad person. Also I think the margin of error is much slimmer for a person of color than other groups. Could you imagine a person of color being the leading candidate for president while on trial for banging s porn star?  Many similar examples in coaching ect .. 

posted by geeblock

Do you think more people in a year get a job/promotion because of their race or lose out on job or aren’t given an opportunity because of their race?

(Not trying to have a gotcha moment) just want to know perspective. 

For the most part society has got to the point that its fairly close to a net 0. Sure some managers/ceos are racist and don't hire/promote based on a skin color but there are just as many people of color getting chances simply because of their skin color and programs like DEI/Affirmative Action. I don't know if we have completely "swung" to the point that the number of those that gain it "unfairly" because they just happen to be a POC are in greater numbers than those that miss out because the hiring manager happens to be a racist yet. 

posted by jmog

For the most part society has got to the point that its fairly close to a net 0. Sure some managers/ceos are racist and don't hire/promote based on a skin color but there are just as many people of color getting chances simply because of their skin color and programs like DEI/Affirmative Action. I don't know if we have completely "swung" to the point that the number of those that gain it "unfairly" because they just happen to be a POC are in greater numbers than those that miss out because the hiring manager happens to be a racist yet. 

posted by geeblock

I was asking for an opinion. We give opinions all the time on tough questions. I also don’t think it has to be all that nefarious. Access to connections and networks for some groups do to family histories in many areas and companies can have the same effect. Doesn’t make someone racist or a bad person. Also I think the margin of error is much slimmer for a person of color than other groups. Could you imagine a person of color being the leading candidate for president while on trial for banging s porn star?  Many similar examples in coaching ect .. 

It's all degrees.  I may not get a job because someone less competent who was friends with the hiring manager got it, or the CEO's kid.  Maybe it isn't fair, but that's life.  Do people of color have slimmer margins for error?  Perhaps in some cases they do.  And certainly in other cases they have much wider margins for error due to equality rules.  Rather than let people who chose on race ultimately lose out in the long run by having a less effective organization, our society has chosen to force everyone to make certain decisions that may not be for the best.  

We had a (white) friend with an ethnically ambiguous name that wouldn't check her race on job applications. She assumed they would think she is black and it would get her an interview at the very least.

posted by geeblock

Gotta be a pretty big scumbag to fight against DEI 

Why, exactly? Give me the reasons.

posted by CenterBHSFan

Why, exactly? Give me the reasons.

Diversity , equity, inclusion are all good things. 

The very idea of hiring people, using the Progressive Stack as your main guideline in the process, for the sole interest of parity is worthless buffoonery. 

Yes, "Let's replace bigotry and racism with bigotry and racism!" said the jackass in some fever dream.

Back to Trump - I think events today do more to jump start his campaign than anything else he could have possibly done.  If he gets elected again, he should appoint Bragg to top post.