Democratic Socialism

gut Senior Member

18,369 posts 115 reps Joined Nov 2009

Thu, Jun 28, 2018 3:01 PM

Pelosi made some dismissive comments of the new rising Democratic Socialist star. And you look at Bernie Sanders, is this actually going to be a significant divide in the Democratic party?

In some respects, it was inevitable that globalilization would eventually lead to a strong Socialist faction in the US. And Pelosi and the other agitators have only been providing gasoline for that fire for well over a decade with their platform of identity politics, victim exploitation and "Uncle Sugar".

The question is, Pelosi is kind of looking a bit like "holy shit what kind of monster have we created?". Can the Democratic establishment reign this in, and will they?

gut Senior Member

18,369 posts 115 reps Joined Nov 2009

Thu, Jun 28, 2018 3:17 PM

Another interesting tidbit....Reid and Pelosi became minority whips in 2002/2003. So outrage over Bush "stealing the election" (damnit, that keeps happening to the poor Dems!) caused the party to move considerably left. And outrage over Trump is a magnitude greater than that.

And before the usual suspects come in here and say "Obama caused the Repubs to move right". No, they didn't. The party moved right on the margins, and the Tea Party no doubt scared the establishment/moderate/progressive Repubs, but they never lost leadership. And after a few years, the Tea Party "rebellion" was put down and never amounted to much more than a nuisance. Sure, we have Trump now....but Michelle Bachman and Ted Cruz never took control of the Repub party, and that's the key difference.

iclfan2 Reppin' the 330/216/843

9,465 posts 98 reps Joined Nov 2009

Thu, Jun 28, 2018 3:19 PM

I voted no more significant, but I'm pretty scared if they can get the house/ senate again and have a presidential socialist candidate. What a dumbass country we would live in then.

gut Senior Member

18,369 posts 115 reps Joined Nov 2009

Thu, Jun 28, 2018 3:48 PM

posted by iclfan2
I voted no more significant, but I'm pretty scared if they can get the house/ senate again and have a presidential socialist candidate. What a dumbass country we would live in then.

The fillibuster is basically the only way the minority party can constrain the controlling party. And thanks to Harry Reid and Mitch McConnell, I'm pretty sure the fillibuster is going to die some day soon. But maybe that faith is misplaced, since budget reconciliation is an end run around the fillibuster, at least with respect to new legislation.

CenterBHSFan 333 - I'm only half evil

7,259 posts 50 reps Joined Nov 2009

Thu, Jun 28, 2018 4:59 PM

I voted that it's here to stay. The allure of promised "free stuff" that socialists promise gives a shot of dopamine to all of these younger people (and older people, too!) that they cannot deny themselves. When they abandon themselves to fantasy land, it's a powerful hit they are receiving at the thought of automatic pay raises, free college, free healthcare.They look at Europe and fall to their knees over this shit. They've been told all of their lives that they deserve it, that it is their right. So to them it's the Promised Land. Government is their church and Bernie is the High Priest.

The gospel train is coming
I hear it just at hand
I hear the car wheels moving
And rumbling thro' the land
Get on board, children
For there's room for many a more

majorspark Senior Member

5,459 posts 38 reps Joined Nov 2009

Thu, Jun 28, 2018 6:10 PM

Maybe one day we can pay a million dollars for a cup of coffee like they are in bolivars in Venezuela.

gut Senior Member

18,369 posts 115 reps Joined Nov 2009

Thu, Jun 28, 2018 6:44 PM

posted by majorspark
Maybe one day we can pay a million dollars for a cup of coffee like they are in bolivars in Venezuela.

At least I won't have to tip the robot barristas.

FatHobbit Senior Member

9,058 posts 68 reps Joined Nov 2009

Thu, Jun 28, 2018 8:57 PM

They are really defining how people discuss things and I think that's dangerous. Common sense gun control. Why should anyone in the richest country in the world not have health care.

ptown_trojans_1 Moderator

8,788 posts 20 reps Joined Nov 2009

Fri, Jun 29, 2018 10:49 AM

It depends on how November goes...

If the Ds have the blue wave and retake the House/ Senate, they are like the Tea Party in 2010.

If the Ds do nothing and the Rs hold onto power, then it is all a fad.

I know in the suburbs of DC where I used to live in Montgomery County, the progressive wing is in full force and it is just so annoying. I roll my eyes a lot to their policy proposals..

gut Senior Member

18,369 posts 115 reps Joined Nov 2009

Fri, Jun 29, 2018 4:46 PM

posted by ptown_trojans_1
If the Ds have the blue wave and retake the House/ Senate, they are like the Tea Party in 2010.

If the Ds do nothing and the Rs hold onto power, then it is all a fad.

I'm not sure "like the Tea Party" is actually a plausible scenario. I don't think the movement will be put down or go away like the Tea Party - either Democratic Socialism is a fad or it will be significant. Pelosi might try to squash it, but she already looks to be on the way out before this result happened.

CenterBHSFan 333 - I'm only half evil

7,259 posts 50 reps Joined Nov 2009

Fri, Jun 29, 2018 4:58 PM

Do you think Pelosi will be leaving? In light of the cash she raises, that's a tough one.

gut Senior Member

18,369 posts 115 reps Joined Nov 2009

Sat, Jun 30, 2018 4:30 AM

posted by CenterBHSFan
Do you think Pelosi will be leaving? In light of the cash she raises, that's a tough one.

I don't think she'll leave, I think she loses the votes

CenterBHSFan 333 - I'm only half evil

7,259 posts 50 reps Joined Nov 2009

Mon, Jul 2, 2018 4:28 PM

It's looking like that the primary win for the democratic socialist that beat Crowley in NY was because of low voter turn out in that district.

But only about 13 percent of registered Democrats turned out to vote in the 14th Congressional District that takes in parts of Queens and the Bronx, according to a preliminary city Board of Elections tally.

https://nypost.com/2018/06/28/most-voters-stayed-home-for-stunning-alexandria-ocasio-cortez-win/

gut Senior Member

18,369 posts 115 reps Joined Nov 2009

Mon, Jul 2, 2018 4:36 PM

posted by CenterBHSFan
It's looking like that the primary win for the democratic socialist that beat Crowley in NY was because of low voter turn out in that district.

https://nypost.com/2018/06/28/most-voters-stayed-home-for-stunning-alexandria-ocasio-cortez-win/

That's the normal explanation always given - moderates generally don't seem to vote in primaries, which is why we often have such lousy candidates in the general.

I think I saw the other day the leading Dems for 2020 are Biden, then Bernie, and then Hillary. It doesn't mean anything as those are just the ones with name recognition. So Democratic Socialism won't be going away this cycle.

But seriously, how does someone study economics at an American university and end up being a socialist?

QuakerOats Senior Member

11,701 posts 66 reps Joined Nov 2009

Mon, Jul 2, 2018 4:41 PM

posted by CenterBHSFan
It's looking like that the primary win for the democratic socialist that beat Crowley in NY was because of low voter turn out in that district.

https://nypost.com/2018/06/28/most-voters-stayed-home-for-stunning-alexandria-ocasio-cortez-win/

By the way, despite her bio claim of having it tough growing up the Bronx, she actually mainly lived in Westchester county., among the wealthiest in the nation.

QuakerOats Senior Member

11,701 posts 66 reps Joined Nov 2009

Mon, Jul 2, 2018 4:46 PM

As for the thread topic, why would the younger folks in this country be any less dumb than those in Greece, Italy, France, Venezuela etc.. We do nothing here in our schools to properly equip our students with respect to history, civics, and constitutional studies. Eventually we'll be gone, and who then will be defending The People and the republic from the socialist and Marxist onslaught.

CenterBHSFan 333 - I'm only half evil

7,259 posts 50 reps Joined Nov 2009

Mon, Jul 2, 2018 4:53 PM

posted by gut
That's the normal explanation always given - moderates generally don't seem to vote in primaries, which is why we often have such lousy candidates in the general.

I think I saw the other day the leading Dems for 2020 are Biden, then Bernie, and then Hillary. It doesn't mean anything as those are just the ones with name recognition. So Democratic Socialism won't be going away this cycle.

But seriously, how does someone study economics at an American university and end up being a socialist?

What I bolded is going to be pretty dicey for the dems. The dems in power are pretty much kicking Bernie out of their sphere, not that he was ever wanted in the first place. His best bet would be to go 3rd party at this point.

I'd say that the dems would be wise to put up Biden at this point, despite his age. Corey Booker has turned out to be emotionally unstable, Kamala Harris doesn't know how to govern based on policy - only makes statesments based on emotion, Gillibrand sides daily with whatever headline VOX or Salon churns out, Elizabeth Warren wouldn't last 1 round with Trump, Bernie Sanders wouldn't receive an ounce of help from the DNC and would receive a very frigid welcome to begin with

There's probably somebody in the dem party that is flying under the radar that is being groomed as the dark horse but I can't imagine who that would be.

like_that 1st Team All-PWN

29,228 posts 321 reps Joined Apr 2010

Mon, Jul 2, 2018 4:57 PM

Might as well edit the title and delete "Democratic," because at the end of the day it is all the same. I think somewhere between tea party and influential. You already have the senator in New York (along with the mayor and other dems) shaking in her boots and placating to these people about abolishing ICE. I do think at some point moderate dems are going to say fuck this, but their hatred for Trump has clouded that type of rational thought for the time being.

QuakerOats Senior Member

11,701 posts 66 reps Joined Nov 2009

Mon, Jul 2, 2018 4:59 PM

I bet Cuomo thinks he should be in the mix.

Wonder what his nickname will be? :)

gut Senior Member

18,369 posts 115 reps Joined Nov 2009

Mon, Jul 2, 2018 6:12 PM

posted by like_that
I do think at some point moderate dems are going to say fuck this, but their hatred for Trump has clouded that type of rational thought for the time being.

I don't know. Look at how Repubs are caving to Trump, more afraid to speak against him as his ratings keep improving.

It's the career politicians desperate to win elections that are too cowardly to take this stuff on. Repubs never took on the Tea Party, the right wing religious nuts just hijacked it and then made it irrelevant. Maybe radical environmentalists will hijack the Dem Socialists in similar fashion.

gut Senior Member

18,369 posts 115 reps Joined Nov 2009

Mon, Jul 2, 2018 6:13 PM

posted by QuakerOats
I bet Cuomo thinks he should be in the mix.

I'm sure things will get really crazy. Will be fun to watch. Those debates are going to be filled with some really angry, hateful people. And that's just the ones on the stage, imagine the audience!

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