Biden vs. Trump 2024

posted by ptown_trojans_1

So just to be clear, your view is the government should not allow abortion at all then? I assume with exceptions for health of mother and rape. 

Just to be clear, if it is determined that the child is a life, then what you are saying is as asinine as “so just to be clear, your view is that the government should not allow murder at all?”

Because let’s be honest, if it’s a life and we kill it when it is not causing immediate fear of life for someone else (mother) killing the life is the definition of murder.

Also as far as foreign policy, remember just last year when the media shit their pants because when asked if he supported Ukraine against Russia he said that he wanted people to stop dying?

posted by CenterBHSFan

Also as far as foreign policy, remember just last year when the media shit their pants because when asked if he supported Ukraine against Russia he said that he wanted people to stop dying?

LOL, I remember.  And Trump isn't wrong, it's just another example of not filtering his words when it would have been better served to have.

Of course, we're talking about the "mastermind" behind the Art of the Deal.  Signaling that you'll stop supporting Ukraine to save lives means Putin just has to maintain a stalemate.  And that may be the inevitable reality.  Still, I'm not sure that statement leaves Trump in the strongest negotiating position.

Although, it's probably better than Biden's assured and forceful "don't".  Even worse than Obama's red line.

posted by CenterBHSFan

It's ok

 It only bothers me when I think about it.

I can understand.

posted by gut

I don't know if I agree with that.  Trump is an unpredictable loose cannon that seems to enjoy insulting our allies.  I think that's the real reason the "deep state" worked so hard to obstruct and impeach Trump.

I really think all the people Trump hired to be his advisors that think he's dangerous shouldn't be dismissed.  Remember, Trump hires the best people!

Between Russia, Palestine and Iran I'm honestly more than a little concerned about Trump making those decisions.  And even if you believe Trump is better than Biden on foreign policy, you still have to acknowledge that the inevitable resistance movement from the left is going to undermine his effectiveness, perhaps dangerously so.

Unfortunately, I do agree with most of what you said, but not because of Trump being the reason. The left would rather see Trump fail even if it means the country fails across the board (foreign policy, economy, etc.). 

The left trying to sabotage Trump aside, his foreign policy is still better. The “Trump unstable and crazy” argument goes out the window when he was pretty much spot on with his criticism, and not to mention the world was more peaceful with crazy Trump in the WH.  It’s a tough pill to swallow for his critics, but our allies should have increased their defense spending a long time ago.  They needed a Russian invasion of Ukraine to wake up. 

On top of that, Trump actually speaks from a position of strength and acts upon it if needed.  He doesn’t do this half in half out appeasement bullshit straight from the Obama foreign policy playbook. Obama spoke about Isis being the JV squad, meanwhile Trump turned ISIS into a jr high squad.  Old man (Biden) yelled at the clouds to Iran not to retaliate, meanwhile Trump had Soilemani killed and informed Iran that the US has 50+ other targets if they even think about retaliating. 

You can talk about the “best people” Trump has advising him, but wtf has Blinken done exactly that deserves a round of applause? Are we supposed to be impressed, because he can chop it up with the French and their media, because he speaks fluently? 

Remember when Dems fear mongered Trump and North Korea?

posted by jmog

1. If biology determines life begins at conception then that’s the only way your first statement could be true. Only way I would say it should be illegal completely is if biology concludes distinctively that life begins at conception.  If it concludes any other time then that is where abortion should stop. I thought I was quite clear on this?

2. I haven’t studied the Texas Law enough to know what I think of it one way or the other. Health of the mother is serious life or death consequences, which is rare to happen. Obviously things like ectopic pregnancies, pregnancies where the mother finds out she has cancer and has to start treatment, and so on. If carrying the child to term will seriously affect the mother’s chance at survival, then end the pregnancy.

3. My second point is reality in every single situation in life but you magically say it’s not with pregnancy?  Everything in life we do that has “risks” we accept the possibility of those risks and that is on us as a person to deal with.  For all of human history it has been known that sex has the possibility of pregnancy.  You accept that possibility with having sex. That’s a fact of biology. Why is it so far from modern society now? Because the far left says so?

1. Just making sure. Your view is way out line compared to a vast majority or Americans that are in favor of options and not a ban like you are suggested from conception. In your case then, you would favor a complete and total ban of abortion like the ones voters in states have rejected? You obviously ate against the Ohio issue that is now in the Ohio Constitution. 

2. Look into the Texas law and the stories that are coming from it. It makes your view look really cruel and detached from reality. The health of the mother is so broad it is hard to really pin down when the case can be applied. As such, doctors are being very cautious for fear of being sued or losing their license. 

3. I agree everyone takes risks into consideration, but your paragraph was sounding very unrealistic and not practical. People can take precautions and get pregnant, completely up ending their life. Your very ridge view is not practical in the real world and how people make decisions in this case. I read your statement like a bad sex education teacher. 

posted by jmog

So the father isn’t a person involved in a child? The child isn’t a person once deemed to be alive?

Man, factual biology is not that far from reality is it? 

You obviously don't know the personhood movement. Look it up. You would support it I'm sure. 

posted by jmog

Just to be clear, if it is determined that the child is a life, then what you are saying is as asinine as “so just to be clear, your view is that the government should not allow murder at all?”

Because let’s be honest, if it’s a life and we kill it when it is not causing immediate fear of life for someone else (mother) killing the life is the definition of murder.

I'm for options and allowing the women and/ or significant other to make that choice in a safe and legal manner. Safe, legal, and rare have others have said. I'm in the majority view on this too. 

posted by like_that

Unfortunately, I do agree with most of what you said, but not because of Trump being the reason. The left would rather see Trump fail even if it means the country fails across the board (foreign policy, economy, etc.). 

The left trying to sabotage Trump aside, his foreign policy is still better. The “Trump unstable and crazy” argument goes out the window when he was pretty much spot on with his criticism, and not to mention the world was more peaceful with crazy Trump in the WH.  It’s a tough pill to swallow for his critics, but our allies should have increased their defense spending a long time ago.  They needed a Russian invasion of Ukraine to wake up. 

On top of that, Trump actually speaks from a position of strength and acts upon it if needed.  He doesn’t do this half in half out appeasement bullshit straight from the Obama foreign policy playbook. Obama spoke about Isis being the JV squad, meanwhile Trump turned ISIS into a jr high squad.  Old man (Biden) yelled at the clouds to Iran not to retaliate, meanwhile Trump had Soilemani killed and informed Iran that the US has 50+ other targets if they even think about retaliating. 

You can talk about the “best people” Trump has advising him, but wtf has Blinken done exactly that deserves a round of applause? Are we supposed to be impressed, because he can chop it up with the French and their media, because he speaks fluently? 

I get that view but Trump's Afghanistan policy set up the fall that Biden oversaw and screwed up. 

Trump also pulled out of the Iran deal. Say what you want about it, but Iran is much closer to a nuclear weapon today than they would have been if the agreement was still in place. 

posted by ptown_trojans_1

1. Just making sure. Your view is way out line compared to a vast majority or Americans that are in favor of options and not a ban like you are suggested from conception. In your case then, you would favor a complete and total ban of abortion like the ones voters in states have rejected? You obviously ate against the Ohio issue that is now in the Ohio Constitution. 

2. Look into the Texas law and the stories that are coming from it. It makes your view look really cruel and detached from reality. The health of the mother is so broad it is hard to really pin down when the case can be applied. As such, doctors are being very cautious for fear of being sued or losing their license. 

3. I agree everyone takes risks into consideration, but your paragraph was sounding very unrealistic and not practical. People can take precautions and get pregnant, completely up ending their life. Your very ridge view is not practical in the real world and how people make decisions in this case. I read your statement like a bad sex education teacher. 

1. You obviously didn’t read my post at all, either that or you just made up what you thought I meant in your brain.  Did you gloss over the word IF when I said IF biology figures out when life officially begins? Or you just being your normal obtuse self and assuming what you thought I meant? The same is true for my stance if biology says life begins at birth. That would be vastly out of the majority of current beliefs in the US, to say all abortions are ok until birth yet you didn’t chime in on that (which I said earlier in a post). You aren’t that stupid ptown so I assume you are miss characterizing what I say on purpose. Thats the only choices, you didn’t read what I typed, you are ignorant, or you purposely miss characterized what I typed. Which is it?

2. Saying the health of mother is serious bodily harm is cruel and heartless? Get out of here with your sanctimonious bullshit.

3. Again, your confirmation bias on what you want to believe I said comes through. No way you are this ignorant, you are just twisting what is said to get people riled up.

You either need to actually read what is typed, be a smarter person, or be a better person. You choose which of those 3 fits this situation.

posted by ptown_trojans_1

I'm for options and allowing the women and/ or significant other to make that choice in a safe and legal manner. Safe, legal, and rare have others have said. I'm in the majority view on this too. 

What you have said above has nothing to do with “rare” though. 

If abortion was illegal except in rape, incest, and serious health of the mother, would you be happy with that?

If you say no, then you are not being truthful with your “rare” comment.

posted by ptown_trojans_1

You obviously don't know the personhood movement. Look it up. You would support it I'm sure. 

I said when biology, science, determines when human life begins we, by our own beliefs in the DoI and Constitution, can’t kill that life unless it is currently or will cause serious bodily harm or death to someone else. Thats literaly the definition difference between murder and self defense.

posted by jmog

You either need to actually read what is typed, be a smarter person, or be a better person. 

For the love of God, please come up with a new line.  You’ve beaten this one to death.  Plus it make sound like the condescending asshole that I’m sure you are not.

posted by jmog

1. You obviously didn’t read my post at all, either that or you just made up what you thought I meant in your brain.  Did you gloss over the word IF when I said IF biology figures out when life officially begins? Or you just being your normal obtuse self and assuming what you thought I meant? The same is true for my stance if biology says life begins at birth. That would be vastly out of the majority of current beliefs in the US, to say all abortions are ok until birth yet you didn’t chime in on that (which I said earlier in a post). You aren’t that stupid ptown so I assume you are miss characterizing what I say on purpose. Thats the only choices, you didn’t read what I typed, you are ignorant, or you purposely miss characterized what I typed. Which is it?

2. Saying the health of mother is serious bodily harm is cruel and heartless? Get out of here with your sanctimonious bullshit.

3. Again, your confirmation bias on what you want to believe I said comes through. No way you are this ignorant, you are just twisting what is said to get people riled up.

You either need to actually read what is typed, be a smarter person, or be a better person. You choose which of those 3 fits this situation.

1. I asked you for several posts and you keep saying biologists say at conception, so if that is not your own view, then fine. But, you did not specify. You only have been quoting biology when I am asking for you as a citizen, your view. You are lecturing people on here. I'm trying to hone in on your view. 

2. I said look at the Texas law and get back to me. 

3. That's your reply? 

posted by jmog

What you have said above has nothing to do with “rare” though. 

If abortion was illegal except in rape, incest, and serious health of the mother, would you be happy with that?

If you say no, then you are not being truthful with your “rare” comment.

Well, depends on your definition of rare. I think we should work at reducing them, but the option should be there. That's the view of most Americans.

posted by jmog

I said when biology, science, determines when human life begins we, by our own beliefs in the DoI and Constitution, can’t kill that life unless it is currently or will cause serious bodily harm or death to someone else. Thats literaly the definition difference between murder and self defense.

You keep saying that but do you jmog, believe it? Is that your own view? Life begins at conception? What do you believe and when do you think an abortion is acceptable? 

I think what jmog is driving at is that biology, the medical science of it, has not yet set a specific day/date/period of when life begins. I would find it interesting to see that conclusion. If it ever happens. Po Tay Toe, Po Tah Toe.

For now, I'm rather enjoying watching two guys hash it out without any women (me) intruding too much.

Carry on.

I know I'm not a mod here, but I made an abortion discussion thread. Please take advantage of it so that we can keep this thread more "neat".

Thanks in advance!

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

For the love of God, please come up with a new line.  You’ve beaten this one to death.  Plus it make sound like the condescending asshole that I’m sure you are not.

I’m the condescending asshole when ptown purposefully changes what I say? If that makes me the asshole then I will take that.

Anyone with a 4th grade reading comprehension level can see that I didn’t say what ptown said I “believed” so did he purposefully miss characterize what I said or not?