posted by CenterBHSFanI admit to still being angry and resentful about all the covid business. My mother died with a nurse holding her hand because myself nor any other family was allowed in the room with her in her final minutes. And she, nor any of us, didn't even have covid!
So yeah, I am not a person who is comfortable or tolerant with govt being so fucking heavy handed in the minutia of our lives.
I hate that for you - really sorry to hear that. Horrible
posted by gutScientific "issues" are never subjective. There may be competing theories and hypotheses, but "subjective" is a media-manufactured narrative where certain theories that support the agenda are promoted as "fact" and "consensus" while competing ideas are SUPPRESSED as "pseudo-science", "conspiracy theory" and "alternative facts".
And, yes, Covid provided numerous examples of all of the above.
Go back 20 years and straight news articles were generally separate from editorials, and were pretty balanced in discussing both sides of an argument's strengths and weaknesses. What passes as straight news today are traditional editorials that skew and slant the facts, and bury counterpoints toward the end of the article. And today's editorials are straight-up propaganda that resort to distortions and strawmen, if they even acknowledge counterpoints at all.
And a lot of useful idiots (quite the handful on this website) eat up those editorials.
If this election came down to foreign policy, Trump would win. Biden’s foreign policy has been nothing short of a disaster with Blinken. A liberal’s idea of foreign policy is whether or not Europe speaks favorably of the us or not. Meanwhile, the Biden admin wanted to brush off the Obama admin playbook of projecting weakness.
posted by like_thatIf this election came down to foreign policy, Trump would win. Biden’s foreign policy has been nothing short of a disaster with Blinken. A liberal’s idea of foreign policy is whether or not Europe speaks favorably of the us or not. Meanwhile, the Biden admin wanted to brush off the Obama admin playbook of projecting weakness.
I don't know if I agree with that. Trump is an unpredictable loose cannon that seems to enjoy insulting our allies. I think that's the real reason the "deep state" worked so hard to obstruct and impeach Trump.
I really think all the people Trump hired to be his advisors that think he's dangerous shouldn't be dismissed. Remember, Trump hires the best people!
Between Russia, Palestine and Iran I'm honestly more than a little concerned about Trump making those decisions. And even if you believe Trump is better than Biden on foreign policy, you still have to acknowledge that the inevitable resistance movement from the left is going to undermine his effectiveness, perhaps dangerously so.
posted by gutI don't know if I agree with that. Trump is an unpredictable loose cannon that seems to enjoy insulting our allies. I think that's the real reason the "deep state" worked so hard to obstruct and impeach Trump.
I really think all the people Trump hired to be his advisors that think he's dangerous shouldn't be dismissed. Remember, Trump hires the best people!
Between Russia, Palestine and Iran I'm honestly more than a little concerned about Trump making those decisions. And even if you believe Trump is better than Biden on foreign policy, you still have to acknowledge that the inevitable resistance movement from the left is going to undermine his effectiveness, perhaps dangerously so.
Good points. Biden doesn’t seem to have a foreign policy except to unquestioning support Israel and show “concern” about China. Trump’s dangerous for his knob polishing of Putin and a Sarah Palin-like understanding of world history and geopolitics.
posted by ptown_trojans_1Ok, fair enough.
So, when should government set the line? When exactly should an abortion be legal and not legal? What week?
How is that determined and who exactly determines it within government?
Where is the line where the government is restricting the rights of the women and forcing them to do what they may not want to do?
It seems like Republicans the last two years are way out is step on this issue as they cannot come up with a good answer to that question. Hence why the abortion measures in states are passing because voters like the option and do not want government totally making the decision for them. People like options, cause the real world is messy.
1. When science confirms where life begins. That’s the line. Government isn’t choosing the line, religion isn’t choosing the line, biologists do.
2. The argument that it’s forcing birth, or forcing women to do what they don’t want to do is asinine, here’s why. Let’s remove the case of rape for a minute as that isn’t consensual. When a woman consents (and a man too) to sex, they KNOW that even with contraception they risk the chance of pregnancy. They knowingly accept that risk by having sex. Knowing that they are chancing a life coming into the world they accept the responsibilities of it. The argument of “forced birth” is the most removed from reality and asinine logic I have ever heard. Again, assuming we are talking about consenting adults.
posted by queencitybuckeye
Why can't it?
Because scientific facts aren’t arbitrary.
Something is either a life or it isn’t. Life to non-life isn’t a spectrum, it’s binary, yes or no.
posted by ptown_trojans_1Let me clarify. The stereotypical view from the right that abortion is by far largely used as birth control for loose women is dead. I agree with your over 10 year old study that the picture is more complicated for reasons, not ones the right has been using for years.
Again, the last 2 years has shown more people the complexities of the issue and that it is not a simple pro and con issue.
If 96% of abortions are not medically necessary, what else would you call it other than “oops” birth control?
When the major reasons are “not ready” or “not enough money”? Thats the definition of why the vast majority of women use birth control, because they aren’t ready for children financially or in life.
posted by queencitybuckeyeWith rare exception, not true.
Hardly, there is at least 2, most likely 3.
It takes 2 people to create the human, and a 3rd being that human if it is a life.
Meanwhile, abortions hit a 10-yr high in 2023...
posted by gutMeanwhile, abortions hit a 10-yr high in 2023...
Total or as a percent of population?
Either way wouldn’t surprise me as people are extremely concerned about the economy and that is the number 1 reason people get abortions, they don’t believe they have the $$ for a child.
posted by jmog1. When science confirms where life begins. That’s the line. Government isn’t choosing the line, religion isn’t choosing the line, biologists do.
2. The argument that it’s forcing birth, or forcing women to do what they don’t want to do is asinine, here’s why. Let’s remove the case of rape for a minute as that isn’t consensual. When a woman consents (and a man too) to sex, they KNOW that even with contraception they risk the chance of pregnancy. They knowingly accept that risk by having sex. Knowing that they are chancing a life coming into the world they accept the responsibilities of it. The argument of “forced birth” is the most removed from reality and asinine logic I have ever heard. Again, assuming we are talking about consenting adults.
So just to be clear, your view is the government should not allow abortion at all then? I assume with exceptions for health of mother and rape.
Next question. What determines health of the mother to you? Are you in favor of the Texas law then?
Your second point is detached from reality in today's modern society.
posted by gutMeanwhile, abortions hit a 10-yr high in 2023...
At least it’s less crazy leftists.
posted by jmogHardly, there is at least 2, most likely 3.
It takes 2 people to create the human, and a 3rd being that human if it is a life.
So you really do believe in the personhood movement. Mike Pence is that you?
posted by Dr Winston O'BoogieI hate that for you - really sorry to hear that. Horrible
It's ok
It only bothers me when I think about it.
posted by ptown_trojans_1So just to be clear, your view is the government should not allow abortion at all then? I assume with exceptions for health of mother and rape.
Next question. What determines health of the mother to you? Are you in favor of the Texas law then?
Your second point is detached from reality in today's modern society.
1. If biology determines life begins at conception then that’s the only way your first statement could be true. Only way I would say it should be illegal completely is if biology concludes distinctively that life begins at conception. If it concludes any other time then that is where abortion should stop. I thought I was quite clear on this?
2. I haven’t studied the Texas Law enough to know what I think of it one way or the other. Health of the mother is serious life or death consequences, which is rare to happen. Obviously things like ectopic pregnancies, pregnancies where the mother finds out she has cancer and has to start treatment, and so on. If carrying the child to term will seriously affect the mother’s chance at survival, then end the pregnancy.
3. My second point is reality in every single situation in life but you magically say it’s not with pregnancy? Everything in life we do that has “risks” we accept the possibility of those risks and that is on us as a person to deal with. For all of human history it has been known that sex has the possibility of pregnancy. You accept that possibility with having sex. That’s a fact of biology. Why is it so far from modern society now? Because the far left says so?
posted by ptown_trojans_1So you really do believe in the personhood movement. Mike Pence is that you?
So the father isn’t a person involved in a child? The child isn’t a person once deemed to be alive?
Man, factual biology is not that far from reality is it?
posted by ptown_trojans_1So just to be clear, your view is the government should not allow abortion at all then? I assume with exceptions for health of mother and rape.
Next question. What determines health of the mother to you? Are you in favor of the Texas law then?
Your second point is detached from reality in today's modern society.
"government ... allow"
My good sir, they /allowed/ Russiagate.
posted by iclfan2At least it’s less crazy leftists.
I'm trying to remember for sure who it was, but I heard somebody say something very close to that. That the Dems will abort their way into a real life The Last of Us.
posted by gutI don't know if I agree with that. Trump is an unpredictable loose cannon that seems to enjoy insulting our allies. I think that's the real reason the "deep state" worked so hard to obstruct and impeach Trump.
I really think all the people Trump hired to be his advisors that think he's dangerous shouldn't be dismissed. Remember, Trump hires the best people!
Between Russia, Palestine and Iran I'm honestly more than a little concerned about Trump making those decisions. And even if you believe Trump is better than Biden on foreign policy, you still have to acknowledge that the inevitable resistance movement from the left is going to undermine his effectiveness, perhaps dangerously so.
So, Russiagate, lying to FISA court about 20 times, his being shadow banned and then outright banned in social media which was done because of government pressure, Stormy Daniels, the house raids on people in his circle, manipulating state law(NY) to press him, the impeachments, all the lawfare, etc was because Trump insulted Sweden?!
