2024 Presidential Election Thread

posted by geeblock

I think it’s important to move to the middle and give in to certain things that are important to all people not just ones who vote for you or that u necessarily agree with . I think all candidates should do this. I’m glad trump finally has a policy we can discuss tho. If only he actually had more actual policies to discuss he probably would be doing better 

So you think she truly changed her mind or is pandering. Her views seem to only shift to what is polling well and she hasn’t explained why her views have changed. I for one would love to hear her explain how she went from comparing ICE to nazis to wanting to fund them more.

posted by geeblock

I’m still waiting on his healthcare plan that was going to be ready in two weeks and that was  4 years ago lol 

Pfft, we are all still waiting on the hope and change that was promised 16 years ago . I can only advise you to take promises from the right or left with a grain of salt. I think you are old enough to know that by now.

And this isn't just an argument directed just towards you. I've been saying that the binary political system has more in common with each other than most even think about. It doesn't love you, doesn't like you and it certainly doesn't work for you. That's why I don't really get upset about people voting for Stein or Jr. or whoever. I wish more people did.

posted by sportchampps

So you think she truly changed her mind or is pandering. Her views seem to only shift to what is polling well and she hasn’t explained why her views have changed. I for one would love to hear her explain how she went from comparing ICE to nazis to wanting to fund them more.

I feel like she was for the border security bill that was put up earlier this year or late last year so I’m not sure what you mean. I didn’t see the nazi thing. Also I don’t need the candidate no matter who they are to personally believe or not believe in something but rather do what’s best for everyone. 

I do like her plan to give 25k incentive to new home builds. This should encourage more building and more jobs and will help with current housing cris

posted by geeblock

I feel like she was for the border security bill that was put up earlier this year or late last year so I’m not sure what you mean. I didn’t see the nazi thing.

I do like her plan to give 25k incentive to new home builds. This should encourage more building and more jobs and will help with current housing cris

Not being facetious but it would be cool if building a new home was affordable. $25,000 helps but seems like it’s raised $150,000 on every 1/2 million

posted by CenterBHSFan

Pfft, we are all still waiting on the hope and change that was promised 16 years ago . I can only advise you to take promises from the right or left with a grain of salt. I think you are old enough to know that by now.

And this isn't just an argument directed just towards you. I've been saying that the binary political system has more in common with each other than most even think about. It doesn't love you, doesn't like you and it certainly doesn't work for you. That's why I don't really get upset about people voting for Stein or Jr. or whoever. I wish more people did.

The two party system is how this country operates. There had been zero, zero, success in changing policy outside the two parties in the entire history of country. The parties have moved around over time, but the two have always been the ways in which political change and policy change happens.

I am in the camp that if you want to change and actually do something, it needs to happen within the existing party structure. Look at Trump as an example. He completely changed the Republican party from within. 

Third party ideas and votes are a waste to me. 

posted by geeblock

I feel like she was for the border security bill that was put up earlier this year or late last year so I’m not sure what you mean. I didn’t see the nazi thing. Also I don’t need the candidate no matter who they are to personally believe or not believe in something but rather do what’s best for everyone. 

I do like her plan to give 25k incentive to new home builds. This should encourage more building and more jobs and will help with current housing cris

Ah yes the border bill that was a really, really good step that had Republicans support...until Trump wanted to kill it. Then, suddenly it died in Congress.

I'll also say most of the domestic policy ideas being thrown around by Kamala and Trump are missing a big piece....how it will get through Congress. I highly doubt that Kamala plan on 25k makes it through Congress. 

Congress is the only way a lot of this happens and funny how they never get brought up in these new policy ideas. 

posted by geeblock

I feel like she was for the border security bill that was put up earlier this year or late last year so I’m not sure what you mean. I didn’t see the nazi thing. Also I don’t need the candidate no matter who they are to personally believe or not believe in something but rather do what’s best for everyone. 

I do like her plan to give 25k incentive to new home builds. This should encourage more building and more jobs and will help with current housing cris

Look up the border bill and see how much money was going to Ukraine in it. And it was still allowing thousands in a day. She’s been the VP for 3.5 years and the border has been a sieve. Put all of Trump’s executive orders back first, before trash bills. How’d that inflation reduction act work out?

The $25k is just another handout ploy. It will just artificially raise demand in an already absurdly high price environment. So housing prices will continue to go up and the $25k won’t even help the people who need it.

posted by ptown_trojans_1

The two party system is how this country operates. There had been zero, zero, success in changing policy outside the two parties in the entire history of country. 

Well, you just made my argument for me, only with other words.

posted by iclfan2

Look up the border bill and see how much money was going to Ukraine in it. And it was still allowing thousands in a day. She’s been the VP for 3.5 years and the border has been a sieve. Put all of Trump’s executive orders back first, before trash bills. How’d that inflation reduction act work out?

The $25k is just another handout ploy. It will just artificially raise demand in an already absurdly high price environment. So housing prices will continue to go up and the $25k won’t even help the people who need it.

You mean the bill that was supported and written by republican Oklahoma Senator Lankford? That was a great start and had a lot of Republican support until Trump said kill it to not give Biden a win.

Executive orders? Those are band aids. Only Congress can solve the border issue. 

posted by CenterBHSFan

Well, you just made my argument for me, only with other words.

Yeah, and we are the greatest country in the world with the best economy in the world with that system and parties in place. 

posted by ptown_trojans_1

You mean the bill that was supported and written by republican Oklahoma Senator Lankford? That was a great start and had a lot of Republican support until Trump said kill it to not give Biden a win.

Executive orders? Those are band aids. Only Congress can solve the border issue. 

Those band aids seemed to work, I’m sure you’ve seen the immigration numbers. And that bill wasn’t going to do it. I don’t care who wrote it. Shut it down completely and I know you don’t like it, but we need way more deportations. Probably not Trump levels, but way more than currently. And somehow cities should be punished who allow criminal immigrants to walk free. 

posted by ptown_trojans_1

I am in the camp that if you want to change and actually do something, it needs to happen within the existing party structure. Look at Trump as an example. He completely changed the Republican party from within. 

Third party ideas and votes are a waste to me. 

On micro scale we see that idea played out to the negative on this site. If somebody points out the obvious of potentials people like you say things like "I don't believe you" or they flip the fuck out over a word like we just saw two nights ago. 

In a macro scale we saw what happened to Trump. Look at how the Dems reacted and everything that they did. From impeaching him based on a hoax, to weaponizing our legal and justice system against not only Trump but the people around him. This only highlighted to the 13th degree with how they treated a Democrat (Clinton) with how they treated Trump. It's unforgivable on every level, no matter if your alt right, a socialist, an establishment shill or a warmonger. It was  and is so bad that even the far left started raging about it. That's pretty bad. 

I don't know if Trump changed the Republican party to the better. Did he open up the idea of populism to the Republicans? Yes, of course. Was he the best person to do that? I have major doubts on that. But I guess it could be said that bringing populism to the minds of Republicans isn't necessarily any more bad than populism on the left. I personally agree with some right AND left populism.

posted by iclfan2

And that bill wasn’t going to do it. I don’t care who wrote it. Shut it down completely and I know you don’t like it, but we need way more deportations. Probably not Trump levels, but way more than currently. And somehow cities should be punished who allow criminal immigrants to walk free.

You cannot shut down the border. It is not that easy. The Republican bill did have deportations in that and would allow for more judges to process more illegals so they can be deported. It would not have solved it, but was a great first step to address your concerns. Lankford gave a great interview with the Times some weeks ago about the details and process of it. 

Instead, we continue with the status quo because again, only Congress can really solve this issue. 

posted by ptown_trojans_1

Yeah, and we are the greatest country in the world with the best economy in the world with that system and parties in place. 

We are surviving on war currency in some ways. The Saudis have dropped the petro dollar. I'm not sure how that well that portends our future because right now we got some bad shit on our doorstep.

posted by Ironman92

Not being facetious but it would be cool if building a new home was affordable. $25,000 helps but seems like it’s raised $150,000 on every 1/2 million

I think it’s for the down payment I was assuming so that u can actually buy it. Not making it 25,000 cheaper. I think a lot of people can afford to pay a mortgage, because most are paying higher rent than what a mortgage would be, but don’t have the down payment. I’m assuming that’s what it is I haven’t dug into it 

posted by CenterBHSFan

We are surviving on war currency in some ways. The Saudis have dropped the petro dollar. I'm not sure how that well that portends our future because right now we got some bad shit on our doorstep.

We will be fine. We have survived much, much worse times. 

posted by ptown_trojans_1

Instead, we continue with the status quo because again, only Congress can really solve this issue. 

It’s not the status quo though. The crossings are up significantly from Trump, so there are levers to pull. And I’m fine with a border bill passed by Congress. But I don’t see how Ukraine should be involved. I don’t understand why they can’t write smaller bills that actually do what the title of the bill talks about, instead of thousand page ones with bribes to multiple people’s interests. And yes, I know the right does it as well.

posted by ptown_trojans_1

Ah yes the border bill that was a really, really good step that had Republicans support...until Trump wanted to kill it. Then, suddenly it died in Congress.

Trump had a good thing going and when Biden got into office he EOd Trump's policy out. I don't think that was necessary. You can't do that and then later want to put essentially the same policies back into place and then pretend your shocked when it doesn't happen for ya. Again, Biden should have just let it alone and nobody could point fingers at anybody. 

This is probably the worst argument Dems could make imo.

posted by CenterBHSFan

I agree with you on the fact that presidential hopefuls need to realize that if they win they will be a president for every body and not just their base. But I do wish they would have this point of view during primaries (when they are allowed to happen).

As for Trump, I think we all already know what his policies are from 2016 and 2020. There is no reason to wonder about that - economy and immigration. The new things like no taxes on tips should be discussed, questioned and criticized (by those who obviously want govt to get all the taxes it can).

As an aside:

I previously thought that KennedyJr would be taking a lot of votes from the left. But as time goes on the lefties I listen to are saying they are going to vote for Jill Stein. Every one of them. Jr is a.filthy Zionist to them. In today's politics, being called a Zionist is the left's version of the N word. Definitely a slur. They say that rather than calling somebody a filthy Jew or a Jew lover.

I strongly disagree with this.  It has long been Israel's ace-in-the-hole to silence opposition by equating anti-zionism with hating jews.  The two are not mutually exclusive. 

posted by geeblock

I think it’s for the down payment I was assuming so that u can actually buy it. Not making it 25,000 cheaper. I think a lot of people can afford to pay a mortgage, because most are paying higher rent than what a mortgage would be, but don’t have the down payment. I’m assuming that’s what it is I haven’t dug into it 

Programs already exist, especially for 1st time home buyers.  For others, there's mortgage insurance if you don't have 20% down.  So where does the money come from to subsidize people with a higher default risk?  I'll give you one guess...Also, before you champion this policy you may want to do some reading up on the 2008 financial/housing crisis.  Because I KNOW how much you hate reading posts full of misinformation.

Just like laws against gouging already exist.  Maybe not federal, but LOL inflation coming down means "gouging" is no longer widespread [not that it was ever a real issue].  Just another pandering double-down that inflation was caused by corporate greed instead of fiscal policy.