2024 Presidential Election Thread

posted by CenterBHSFan

For me, I was born and raised a Democrat. I bought into it just as much as I was brought into it. In fact, I was so far left that I was a donor to Greenpeace and thought making all kids wear the same uniform so that poor kids wouldn't have to feel bad about wearing obvious hand-me-downs. And even as I voted for Bill Clinton both times, it was his second term that eroded and ultimately ended my belief in "democrat". Although he was the figurehead, it wasn't just him. It was the whole party. The whole movement, so to speak, the change. I haven't looked back, but more importantly, the Dem party hasn't looked back. That's why I'm hard on them. Yes, I'm much harder in the Dems than I am with the Republicans. I was never in the Republican world and as such, they just have never been that important to me. 

Just look at what the Dems have done to hurt the working class so much. Things like NAFTA and Obamacare. The Republicans were involved in that too, but when those things were agreed upon and signed into law it was a Democrat who did it. Making Dem cities sanctuary cities and then putting illegal immigrants into hotels, fed them, clothed them and gave them spending money RIGHT NEXT to homeless camps where people were hungry, thirsty and had no extra clothes. The Dems couldn't be more disrespectful to the citizens of this country if they tried. Republicans never forced them to do that. 

Memes, republicans and subcultures aside, the Dems have gone out of their way to spit in the faces of each of us. I choose to eternally oppose that. All of that.

I have quibbles with a lot of this, but add that while NAFTA did have problems, it also led to the huge economic growth during the 90s and 2000s. 

Obamacare is also insanely popular by people.

posted by ptown_trojans_1

I have quibbles with a lot of this, but add that while NAFTA did have problems, it also led to the huge economic growth during the 90s and 2000s. 

Obamacare is also insanely popular by people.

Completely false. If it was a popular thing:

- wouldn't have been a record number of townhalls

- there wouldn't have been such a rush to covertly throw it together and have the Speaker of the House say things like "we have to sign this thing into law before we know what the law actually is"

- Dems never would have said things like "I know it's unpopular in my district but I'm going to vote for it anyway"

- there wouldn't have been an electoral bloodbath for the dems in the House and Senate the very next year once people found out what all the law entailed

- Obama would never had admitted that the Dems got shellacked for it

Having a bad memory or just straight up lying is never a good asset to use to try to dispute what somebody else said.

posted by CenterBHSFan

Completely false. If it was a popular thing:

- wouldn't have been a record number of townhalls

- there wouldn't have been such a rush to covertly throw it together and have the Speaker of the House say things like "we have to sign this thing into law before we know what the law actually is"

- Dems never would have said things like "I know it's unpopular in my district but I'm going to vote for it anyway"

- there wouldn't have been an electoral bloodbath for the dems in the House and Senate the very next year once people found out what all the law entailed

- Obama would never had admitted that the Dems got shellacked for it

Having a bad memory or just straight up lying is never a good asset to use to try to dispute what somebody else said.

Agree with all of that. It is insanely popular now. It was during the Trump years too, which is why the Republicans could never kill it. 

I'd still say too the pros of NAFTA far outweigh the bad, given the growth of the US economy the last 30 years. 

posted by ptown_trojans_1

I have quibbles with a lot of this, but add that while NAFTA did have problems, it also led to the huge economic growth during the 90s and 2000s. 

Obamacare is also insanely popular by people.

Yes, putting millions of people out of work, which translated to people trying to support their families by flipping burgers, so we could buy cheaper televisions, import more energy instead of using our own, and importing subpar steel from other countries was a good idea. 

posted by CenterBHSFan

Yes, putting millions of people out of work, which translated to people trying to support their families by flipping burgers, so we could buy cheaper televisions, import more energy instead of using our own, and importing subpar steel from other countries was a good idea. 

We produce more energy than anyone else in the world. 

Also, again, yes there are negatives, but the good far outweigh the bad. From a macroeconomic standpoint, it is a huge success. 

I don’t equate those statistics as kids “pushed” into anything.  Confused teens questioning their sexuality is a far cry from being pushed into something.

posted by ptown_trojans_1

Agree with all of that. It is insanely popular now. It was during the Trump years too, which is why the Republicans could never kill it. 

I'd still say too the pros of NAFTA far outweigh the bad, given the growth of the US economy the last 30 years. 

About 60/40 favorability as of 2021 isn't what I'd call insanely popular. I think fair to middling would be a more accurate description. 

posted by CenterBHSFan

About 60/40 favorability as of 2021 isn't what I'd call insanely popular. I think fair to middling would be a more accurate description. 

I think his point is made.

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

I don’t equate those statistics as kids “pushed” into anything.  Confused teens questioning their sexuality is a far cry from being pushed into something.

Well you don't because you have admitted that you don't look into much about anything on your own. If you had been even a little curious you would known that these kids don't even have to be diagnosed before being medicated with sterilizing drugs or having surgery performed on their bodies. 

Yes, they are confused in general, often self-diagnose, have very real and serious mental health problems, peer pressure is often a factor, and they fall victim to activists.

Big pharma is making a profit off these kids with very little government oversight.

In Europe the leading medical centers that trans's kids have put a stop to it because of a growing amount of statistics, studies and lawsuits from detransitioners have finally made them realize that they were doing a huge disservice to these kids in unimagined ways. There are now lawsuits in the US which is going to give pause and hopefully make these groups rethink a better approach to helping these kids.

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

I think his point is made.

You think 60/40 is insanely popular, do you? LOL

It's not even a full 60%, I was being generous.

posted by CenterBHSFan

You think 60/40 is insanely popular, do you? LOL

In today's age....it is. But yeah, it's popular. Insanely not so much. But, it's more popular now than when it was passed, which was my whole point. 

posted by CenterBHSFan

Well you don't because you have admitted that you don't look into much about anything on your own. If you had been even a little curious you would known that these kids don't even have to be diagnosed before being medicated with sterilizing drugs or having surgery performed on their bodies. 

Yes, they are confused in general, often self-diagnose, have very real and serious mental health problems, peer pressure is often a factor, and they fall victim to activists.

Big pharma is making a profit off these kids with very little government oversight.

In Europe the leading medical centers that trans's kids have put a stop to it because of a growing amount of statistics, studies and lawsuits from detransitioners have finally made them realize that they were doing a huge disservice to these kids in unimagined ways. There are now lawsuits in the US which is going to give pause and hopefully make these groups rethink a better approach to helping these kids.

Curious, how much of this was also said in the 80s and 90s about gay people? 

Big pharma has always had a hand in things, so not sure why you are citing them now. Big pharma has also done more good than harm in the grand scheme of things. 

We have the greatest healthcare system in the world right? That's in part due to big pharma. 

Yes, they need more regulation and oversight, but I'm not buying that they are preying on kids like you said.

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

I am pretty sure the hysteria surrounding the trans stuff will, in 20-30 years, look much like the “satanic panic” of the 1980s looks today. 

Except the “satanic panic” wasn’t giving children body changing hormones or even chopping off their body parts.

posted by ptown_trojans_1

Or the same language around homosexuality in the 90s.

Were the homosexuals in the 90s giving children chemical castration drugs? That is literally happening now, so no, it’s not the same thing. 

You get to 18+ do what you want to your body, but leave children alone. 

posted by jmog

Were the homosexuals in the 90s giving children chemical castration drugs? That is literally happening now, so no, it’s not the same thing. 

You get to 18+ do what you want to your body, but leave children alone. 

I think you are glossing over the anti gay hysteria from the 80s and 90s....

posted by ptown_trojans_1

I think you are glossing over the anti gay hysteria from the 80s and 90s....

I think I was 100% right, but sure I am the one glossing over something.

They are giving children life altering drugs after the child self diagnoses, and in some states they are not required to even tell the parents.

Sorry, you’re taking the L here again ptown. 

posted by jmog

Except the “satanic panic” wasn’t giving children body changing hormones or even chopping off their body parts.

You’re right.  Kids were being brainwashed, taking drugs given to them by strangers, joining cults, and worshipping the devil at the instruction of the backward masking on Judas Priest records.  Right wingers, evangelicals and other conservatives considered it a challenge to the very existence of the USA.  Sounds familiar.

posted by jmog

I think I was 100% right, but sure I am the one glossing over something.

They are giving children life altering drugs after the child self diagnoses, and in some states they are not required to even tell the parents.

Sorry, you’re taking the L here again ptown. 

Not my argument.

Mine is everything around the issue is hysteria and the worst case scenario just like the hysteria with gays in the 80s and 90s.

I'm not denying what you say is true in some cases, but I'm not making it a broad statement about trans issue in general. 

posted by jmog

I think I was 100% right, but sure I am the one glossing over something.

They are giving children life altering drugs after the child self diagnoses, and in some states they are not required to even tell the parents.

Sorry, you’re taking the L here again ptown. 

Link please also who is they?