2024 Presidential Election Thread

Speaking of student loan debts I just had an idea and will post it here.

What about a total student loan debt forgiveness for anybody who applies, BUT , there's a catch: you must also opt out of receiving any social security and completely fund your retirement on your own.

What would be the pros and cons to that option? 

One of the easy cons, imo, would be that you'd probably still have to pay into it because the govt will always find a way to take something from you.

In the pro side, you'd probably do a better job of investing into yourself and manage the funds better than the govt could/would. Assuming you could plan out your own budget and work with a respected financial planner.

One thing that could draw me to gop besides getting rid of trump is their idea of America first. I would vote for a party that got rid of any foreign money going out until we take care of our vets and homeless situation. It bothers me that we take care of other people before our own. 

Also I know it’s controversial and people say it can’t be done, I would vote for free healthcare. We already pay a lot. I see so many people who are trump supporters but then start a go fund me when they get cancer and lose their whole life savings. That should not happen 

posted by CenterBHSFan

So you don't want to watch the speech, want others to tell you the meaning of the phrase, and then when they take the time to watch it and tell you what he was talking about you then say that the conclusion is a stretch?

Yeah, that's shitard.

I did not watch his entire speech.  I watched several minutes surrounding this comment.  I couldn’t figure out from that what he meant, though I’m pretty sure it wasn’t what you concluded.

I just wondered if I’d missed something that would have given his remarks context.  Based on what you said, I see I didn’t .

I think he’s pretty clever about stuff like this.  He makes comments like this that get the left to freak out, and that get his followers to twist themselves in knots to try and explain “what he was obviously saying” when he intended nothing of the sort.

Then he sits back and enjoys his name being front and center for a couple more days.  He’s a master at it.

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

I did not watch his entire speech.  I watched several minutes surrounding this comment.  I couldn’t figure out from that what he meant, though I’m pretty sure it wasn’t what you concluded.

I just wondered if I’d missed something that would have given his remarks context.  Based on what you said, I see I didn’t .

I think he’s pretty clever about stuff like this.  He makes comments like this that get the left to freak out, and that get his followers to twist themselves in knots to try and explain “what he was obviously saying” when he intended nothing of the sort.

Then he sits back and enjoys his name being front and center for a couple more days.  He’s a master at it.

You are absolutely correct he toes the line of racist stuff then we have  pLeAsE pOsT sOmEtHiNg tHaT wAS raCIsT? Or I CaNt BELieVe I’m bEiNg cALleD rAciSt

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

I couldn’t figure out from that what he meant, though I’m pretty sure it wasn’t what you concluded.

Why?

posted by CenterBHSFan

Why?

There was nothing in what he said that conveyed a message “Christians haven’t voted in high numbers but if you would just do it this one time, I won’t bother about you doing it next time.”

He said they wouldn’t have to vote anymore because he would fix it so they wouldn’t have to.

I don’t know what that means, but I’m sure it wasn’t an accident.  He’s way more careful with his words than people assume.  Like I said, my guess is that he said what he said to provoke hysterics on the left and rationalizing gymnastics on the right thereby keeping himself front and center.  He’s better at doing this than any politician I can recall in my lifetime.

Also, I think evangelicals are one of the highest voter turnout subsegments there is.  So I’m pretty sure he wasn’t selling the idea of voting to a bunch of Christians already attending a Trump rally.  Let’s assume they’ll all be up early on Election Day.

posted by geeblock

If they had hinted they had any intention of overturning it they would not have been affirmed correct? If anything their answer while not giving an opinion certainly led people to believe they would not. At least that is my opinion on how most people took their responses. 

So people assume things that aren’t said? That sounds like “well he said this, but we all know he meant this”  

That’s a terrible way to believe. Take people at their word until their actions prove otherwise. 

posted by geeblock

One thing that could draw me to gop besides getting rid of trump is their idea of America first. I would vote for a party that got rid of any foreign money going out until we take care of our vets and homeless situation. It bothers me that we take care of other people before our own. 

Also I know it’s controversial and people say it can’t be done, I would vote for free healthcare. We already pay a lot. I see so many people who are trump supporters but then start a go fund me when they get cancer and lose their whole life savings. That should not happen 

Libertarians want that (stop sending money to other countries) they don’t want universal healthcare though.

Neither side wants to give up money going to other countries  

posted by geeblock

You are absolutely correct he toes the line of racist stuff then we have  pLeAsE pOsT sOmEtHiNg tHaT wAS raCIsT? Or I CaNt BELieVe I’m bEiNg cALleD rAciSt

So Trump says thing “close to racist” but Biden says things directly racist and that’s ok?

posted by iclfan2

That’s the issue, I’m for (or at least fine with) programs for teachers and other careers that have a lower income but a public need. But who gets to pick those careers? I’m not for blanket forgiveness for random people or people who chose these giant loans knowing what they were getting into. I also find it hard to believe you could teach for 20 years and not be able to pay off your loans. Either they went to a way too expensive school for an education degree, or chose not to pay them off. Nurses make pretty good money, btw. 

I’d also be more for some sort of interest rate cap, but I don’t know how you do that unless the government owns all the loans, and they’ve been proven to be horrible at that. I agree there is an issue, but I disagree with the forgiveness model. People need to learn about compounding interest too. 

I saw this make its rounds on Twitter earlier this year, which is the type of blanket forgiveness I disagree with. Guy making $80-$90k working for the government getting his loans forgiven. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13551089/democrat-staffer-taxpayer-salary-roasted-biden-wiping-student-debt.html

I actually agree with a lot of this. Wiping away the debt for all makes little sense. But, allowing some segments that serve in public service have their loans forgiven, I'm good with. Congress should set those standards. Congress should also bring back and increase the Pell grants and Perkins loan.

I do agree that the solution is interest rate caps. Currently, they are 4-5% and some 6-7% for grad school. That is too high and should be more in the 2-3 or zero in some cases. 

I also get the macro economic impact of student loans. I know my own student loans caused me to delay buying a house for a few years. Once mine were paid off, I was able to save enough for a new house. Most people in their 20s and 30s are in the same situation. The interest rates also killed me for a few years as I was only paying the interest with little to no principal for a bit.

Biden screwed this all up as he should have said he wanted Congress to pass new laws that fix this during 2021 or 2022. But instead he tried to do it alone, and the courts rightly knocked it down. 

Thats not even in mentioning the root cause that is tuition rising costs. 

Just to remind everybody that it doesn't take very long at all to simply Google things. Even transcripts. Unless, of course, you are only concerned with how you want to feel.

posted by ptown_trojans_1

Biden screwed this all up as he should have said he wanted Congress to pass new laws that fix this during 2021 or 2022. But instead he tried to do it alone, and the courts rightly knocked it down. 

I'm not sure what you mean. How did he try to do this on his own?

posted by CenterBHSFan

I'm not sure what you mean. How did he try to do this on his own?

Really? His student loans forgiveness was stuck down by the Supreme Court in 2023. All other measures he had tried have been blocked by the courts too. You gotta remember this as it was a big deal last summer lol.

posted by CenterBHSFan

Just to remind everybody that it doesn't take very long at all to simply Google things. Even transcripts. Unless, of course, you are only concerned with how you want to feel.

Cute  

But it didn’t capture the part I was referring to.

I watched his original remarks - the ones I asked about on here - and I was curious what the Ohiochatter crowd thought they meant.  I have my opinion as to why I think Trump phrases things the way he does.

That’s it, just trying to provoke some discussion.  While I appreciate your lesson on utilizing Google, it misses the point.

posted by jmog

So Trump says thing “close to racist” but Biden says things directly racist and that’s ok?

Joe "I don't want my kids growing up in a racial jungle" Biden DEFINITELY isn't racist, how dare you lol

My other whole thing with student loans and forgiveness… what is the cure going forward? If you forgive these ones, and don’t fix the current issues, you pretty much have to just continue forgiving them? I think a solution needs to be figured out with future loans before anything happens retroactively. Otherwise you are incentivizing people to go into mountains of debt with the assumption they’ll never have to pay. Unless I missed it, it’s crazy that this hasn’t been a topic of discussion in Congress. 

Sorry for continuing to beat this dead horse. Relevant question, who is actually running the country right now? Is Biden mailing it in until January and Kamala is in charge?

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

Cute  

But it didn’t capture the part I was referring to.

I watched his original remarks - the ones I asked about on here - and I was curious what the Ohiochatter crowd thought they meant.  I have my opinion as to why I think Trump phrases things the way he does.

That’s it, just trying to provoke some discussion.  While I appreciate your lesson on utilizing Google, it misses the point.

Well, you said that you didn't believe what I had said. And by the way, that's not the only time he says that; he harped on that a couple of times. That's why I said that that was the purpose of his point - begging them to vote. 

As I said before:

1) there are way too many dog whistles that only the left can seem to hear.

2) I think this is another " bloodbath" situation.

posted by iclfan2

My other whole thing with student loans and forgiveness… what is the cure going forward? If you forgive these ones, and don’t fix the current issues, you pretty much have to just continue forgiving them? I think a solution needs to be figured out with future loans before anything happens retroactively. Otherwise you are incentivizing people to go into mountains of debt with the assumption they’ll never have to pay. Unless I missed it, it’s crazy that this hasn’t been a topic of discussion in Congress. 

Sorry for continuing to beat this dead horse. Relevant question, who is actually running the country right now? Is Biden mailing it in until January and Kamala is in charge?

IMO the govt needs to GTFO of the loaning business first and foremost. It should never be in the business of having people be indebted to it - more than they already are. Especially when the govt arms IRS agents while simultaneously trying to disarm citizens.

posted by Trueblue23

Joe "I don't want my kids growing up in a racial jungle" Biden DEFINITELY isn't racist, how dare you lol

You know the song and dance. Dems are allowed to be racist to fight racism.

posted by ptown_trojans_1

Really? His student loans forgiveness was stuck down by the Supreme Court in 2023. All other measures he had tried have been blocked by the courts too. You gotta remember this as it was a big deal last summer lol.

Yeah, must be a massive brain fart on my side, because it still isn't coming to immediate memory, without googling. I can only deduce that it never hit my priority radar. Also, I've let a lot of things Biden has done fly under my radar on purpose. I've just never felt the need to zero in on him much. I've commented on his racism, but other than that, he's gotten more respect and sympathy than all other presidents in my lifetime put together. I know that's weird and squirrelly, but it just is what it is.