posted by sportchamppsZ didn’t even let them have a fair election lol
Putin does not allow those in peacetime. If he gets control of Ukraine they will never see one again. And we will all be better off when the Ruskies control the resources of Ukraine lol. Maybe they should not have given up their nukes for sovereign borders?
posted by jmogSorry, but there is no valid reason to be financially supporting the two wars (Ukraine and Israel).
America assumed the responsibility to protect and defend democracy around the world post World War II. The era of peace and prosperity we have endured since World War II is a result of that.
America should protect and defend democracy around the globe...within reason of course. Ukraine should not be abandoned, but should be encouraged to seek a fair and reasonable solution.
Israel should still be a key US ally, but likewise, within reason.
posted by bigorangebuck22Yeah helping people fight for their freedom really angers me too. They should welcome Putin's bootheel with open arms.
It was/is a manufactured war that NEVER had to happen.
posted by majorsparkPutin does not allow those in peacetime. If he gets control of Ukraine they will never see one again. And we will all be better off when the Ruskies control the resources of Ukraine lol. Maybe they should not have given up their nukes for sovereign borders?
I'm with you until the end. I'm not a fan of nuclear proliferation.
posted by ptown_trojans_1America assumed the responsibility to protect and defend democracy around the world post World War II. The era of peace and prosperity we have endured since World War II is a result of that.
America should protect and defend democracy around the globe...within reason of course. Ukraine should not be abandoned, but should be encouraged to seek a fair and reasonable solution.
Israel should still be a key US ally, bur likewise, within reason.
It's too fucking late for fair and reasonable solutions now. The only things Ukrainians have to look forward to now is only a part of their country and all their young men dead.
The only grand winner here is the military industrial complex, who fleeced America yet again.
posted by ptown_trojans_1I'm with you until the end. I'm not a fan of nuclear proliferation.
Who is? The Ukrainians are are a very innovative people. I am sure you have heard the talk of developing a small nuke if left. Also they were given security guarantees by the west and Russia. Not fulfilled. The nukes already existed not proliferation. Just managed by Ukraine. Instead just trusting Russia.
posted by CenterBHSFanSigning bombs like he was a celebrity. Which, I guess to the Dems, he is.
I mean… he’s an actor, right? Aren’t they celebrities? Although not in the US I guess
posted by majorsparkThe powers aligned against these nations are not forces for good on this earth.
I don’t disagree, but how can you justify sending billions when we are trillions in debt and close to a trillion deficit every year?
It makes zero sense.
posted by ptown_trojans_1America assumed the responsibility to protect and defend democracy around the world post World War II. The era of peace and prosperity we have endured since World War II is a result of that.
America should protect and defend democracy around the globe...within reason of course. Ukraine should not be abandoned, but should be encouraged to seek a fair and reasonable solution.
Israel should still be a key US ally, but likewise, within reason.
I don’t disagree with “defending democracy”, but you can’t do that when you are in a yearly trillion dollar deficit. You can’t borrow money from China to send to Ukraine/Israel.
Shit, in the ME we are funding both sides. Arms on one side and “humanitarian aide” on the other. Billions sent from China through the US.
posted by kizer permanenteI mean… he’s an actor, right? Aren’t they celebrities? Although not in the US I guess
He *was* an actor, yes. But right now he is a leader of a country whose young male population is almost completely erased because of a manufactured war.
From Biden expanding NATO to purposely rile up Russia, to sending Boris Johnson to break up peace talks between Russia and Ukraine that were almost complete.
So it's too late for Ukraine now. They are fucked in every possible way. They will never again be the country they were. And it will take generations to rebuild their male population.
Zelensky autographing bombs...
And don't let Ptown put anybody to sleep with his rhetoric of saving some other country's democracy.
It's a boondoggle war manufactured for the trillions of dollars worth of natural resources that's in the Ukrainian ground.
posted by jmogI don’t disagree, but how can you justify sending billions when we are trillions in debt and close to a trillion deficit every year?
It makes zero sense.
Does it? We are investing in influence. Leaving it to bad actors makes zero sense. Forcing allies to contribute more especially those near the front of these issues makes sense. When it comes to the trillions that falls on entitlements and wasteful bureaucracies. The bad actors place less value on life, liberty, and quality of life of their citizens than others do. So that is difficult to balance without bowing out.
posted by ptown_trojans_1America assumed the responsibility to protect and defend democracy around the world post World War II. The era of peace and prosperity we have endured since World War II is a result of that.
America should protect and defend democracy around the globe...within reason of course. Ukraine should not be abandoned, but should be encouraged to seek a fair and reasonable solution.
Israel should still be a key US ally, but likewise, within reason.
That’s the myth that keeps this insane military spending going.
There have not been any more Western European wars during that time, but there have been Eastern European wars (like the current one), multiple major Asian wars (one of which we were the primary cause of casualties and still lost), major civil wars in Africa, ongoing guerrila wars in South America, large wars in the Middle East where we were one of the biggest instigator of casualties…the list goes on. Many of those places we fought not because of some altruistic aim to defend democracy, but to defend our economic interests and our prestige.
posted by Dr Winston O'BoogieThat’s the myth that keeps this insane military spending going.
There have not been any more Western European wars during that time, but there have been Eastern European wars (like the current one), multiple major Asian wars (one of which we were the primary cause of casualties and still lost), major civil wars in Africa, ongoing guerrila wars in South America, large wars in the Middle East where we were one of the biggest instigator of casualties…the list goes on. Many of those places we fought not because of some altruistic aim to defend democracy, but to defend our economic interests and our prestige.
Preach!
Also
The idea of some sort of ephemeral prosperity is for who, Ptown?
With an ever-shrinking middle class and a continuously growing amount of working poor, I wonder who is obtaining this prosperity of which you speak.
posted by CenterBHSFanPreach!
Also
The idea of some sort of ephemeral prosperity is for who, Ptown?
With an ever-shrinking middle class and a continuously growing amount of working poor, I wonder who is obtaining this prosperity of which you speak.
The entire world economy and economic prosperity since 1945. The immense growth in living standards, technology, wealth, and freedom since 1945 is largely do to the US being willing to keep the world economy and democracies free and safe.
I love sounding like Ronald Reagan here lol.
posted by Dr Winston O'BoogieThat’s the myth that keeps this insane military spending going.
There have not been any more Western European wars during that time, but there have been Eastern European wars (like the current one), multiple major Asian wars (one of which we were the primary cause of casualties and still lost), major civil wars in Africa, ongoing guerrila wars in South America, large wars in the Middle East where we were one of the biggest instigator of casualties…the list goes on. Many of those places we fought not because of some altruistic aim to defend democracy, but to defend our economic interests and our prestige.
Yes, but there have not world wars that cripple the world economy or severely limit freedom.
At least not yet..
posted by ptown_trojans_1Yes, but there have not world wars that cripple the world economy or severely limit freedom.
At least not yet..
Should we keep fucking around to find out?
posted by majorsparkDoes it? We are investing in influence. Leaving it to bad actors makes zero sense. Forcing allies to contribute more especially those near the front of these issues makes sense. When it comes to the trillions that falls on entitlements and wasteful bureaucracies. The bad actors place less value on life, liberty, and quality of life of their citizens than others do. So that is difficult to balance without bowing out.
You can't blame the trillions of debt on entitlements only when the military, part of what supporting wars budget goes to, is like 1/3 of the budget.
There is no way to get out of deficit spending without cutting entitlments AND the military...both.
posted by CenterBHSFanIt was/is a manufactured war that NEVER had to happen.
If the '20 election wasn't manufactured it would never have happened.
posted by ptown_trojans_1The entire world economy and economic prosperity since 1945. The immense growth in living standards, technology, wealth, and freedom since 1945 is largely do to the US being willing to keep the world economy and democracies free and safe.
I love sounding like Ronald Reagan here lol.
Back in the days of England big houses, the management of them was time honored tradition. If the lady of the house got cold, she had to tell the footman that she wanted more coal in the fireplace. That footmen would them tell the footman in the hallway, then he would have to tell the Butler who then told the coal boy. When the industrial revolution started and more country folk started to leave for the big cities, the manor house was slow to change the system that was all they knew and were raised to know how to manage. But sooner than they would have liked, the mistress of the manor knew that she had no choice but to streamline and develope a whole new way of approaching the care of her home. But face it, she did, along with adapting to what was at hand.
The same theme is happening today in our government. What we were so used to doing no longer applies to the realities that we are currently facing. Change is happening, people are leaving old notions/routines and our government is going to have no choice but to adapt to the loss of old notions and systems.
People are telling the politicians that forever wars, regime change and interfering in *everybody's* business, funding proxy wars are no longer acceptable. It seems that the Republicans are catching on to this at a much faster rate than the Democrats. The Republican party still had the mentality of yesterday, but the number within it sees the writing on the wall and they are working to better fit modernity.
