tk421 wrote:

I Wear Pants wrote:

cbus4life wrote: I want reform just as much as the next person, but this isn't even a good bill even if he was trying to go the "socialist" route. He would need to tweak it to be more in line with the complexities of America. But, he has failed to take that into account, has not compromised, and as a result those who actually do need some help, as far as health care is concerned, will not get it.

I mean, it is sad that, as even most Republicans on here agree, health care reform is needed, but it is not going to happen because of Obama's stubborness. A more bi-partisan effort, with a combination of Republican and Democrat ideas, would have been perfect. Lots of great ideas out there, and i think Republicans have it correct in that, probably, given the situation in America, massive government health care isn't the way to go. Reform should probably take part in the private sector, and that would help to get government costs under control as well.

I really hoped that the government could make it happen, here in the States, as i've had good experiences elsewhere, and know that, in some places, government run health-care is truly a good thing. However, have realized that reform needs to come from the private sector here in the USA, as the costs to the government just can't be justified.

I'm worried as much as the next person at the debt we're taking on and the like.

I want to see true reform in Washington, with people who can manage to place the government in it's proper balance with the private sector.

I'm not an outright free-enterprise capitalist, but think that, in the situation of the United States, the private sector needs to take "precedence" over the governmental sphere. Of course, i would like to see shady private sector shit dissapear as well, but "lasting" change and reform would come from that sector, not the government.

I still consider myself a sort of Democratic-Socialist, but if i truly care about the future of the United States, i'm coming to realize that it is wrong of me to advocate those types of policies at the current time, as we need to get spending under control. "Worthless" spending is at an all-time high, and it is keeping the government from doing things that would truly benefit the American people.

Then why doesn't anyone propose a bill that does that?

The people who disagree with the bill keep saying that they realize that health care needs addressed and that they have ideas but what has actually been proposed?

Because you know and everyone else knows the Democrats aren't going to pass any bill from Republican ideas.

I Wear Pants wrote:

tk421 wrote:

I Wear Pants wrote:

cbus4life wrote: I want reform just as much as the next person, but this isn't even a good bill even if he was trying to go the "socialist" route. He would need to tweak it to be more in line with the complexities of America. But, he has failed to take that into account, has not compromised, and as a result those who actually do need some help, as far as health care is concerned, will not get it.

I mean, it is sad that, as even most Republicans on here agree, health care reform is needed, but it is not going to happen because of Obama's stubborness. A more bi-partisan effort, with a combination of Republican and Democrat ideas, would have been perfect. Lots of great ideas out there, and i think Republicans have it correct in that, probably, given the situation in America, massive government health care isn't the way to go. Reform should probably take part in the private sector, and that would help to get government costs under control as well.

I really hoped that the government could make it happen, here in the States, as i've had good experiences elsewhere, and know that, in some places, government run health-care is truly a good thing. However, have realized that reform needs to come from the private sector here in the USA, as the costs to the government just can't be justified.

I'm worried as much as the next person at the debt we're taking on and the like.

I want to see true reform in Washington, with people who can manage to place the government in it's proper balance with the private sector.

I'm not an outright free-enterprise capitalist, but think that, in the situation of the United States, the private sector needs to take "precedence" over the governmental sphere. Of course, i would like to see shady private sector shit dissapear as well, but "lasting" change and reform would come from that sector, not the government.

I still consider myself a sort of Democratic-Socialist, but if i truly care about the future of the United States, i'm coming to realize that it is wrong of me to advocate those types of policies at the current time, as we need to get spending under control. "Worthless" spending is at an all-time high, and it is keeping the government from doing things that would truly benefit the American people.

Then why doesn't anyone propose a bill that does that?

The people who disagree with the bill keep saying that they realize that health care needs addressed and that they have ideas but what has actually been proposed?

Because you know and everyone else knows the Democrats aren't going to pass any bill from Republican ideas.

If there was a bill that had as much support from the American people as the Republicans say they have for their ideas on health care and it was still ignored by the Democrat majority then it would definitely spell ruin for that majority come election time.

If they have good ideas they should put them in a bill and propose them, if they get shot down it makes the Democrats look like assholes (assuming they were actually good ideas).

QuakerOats wrote: "So this is just like Prague under communist rule?" the Huffington Post asked.

"Oh yeah, it is very, very close," King replied. "It is the nationalization of our liberty and the federal government taking our liberty over. So there are a lot of similarities there."

Rep. Steve King, Iowa on Tuesday

When will the sheeple realize that we have elected the enemy?

gibby08 wrote: Why is that major....because you don't like what they have to say??

In fact, every federal social program has cost far more than originally predicted. For instance, in 1967 the House Ways and Means Committee predicted that Medicare would cost $12 billion in 1990, a staggering $95 billion underestimate. Medicare first exceeded $12 billion in 1975. In 1965 federal actuaries figured the Medicare hospital program would end up running $9 billion in 1990. The cost was more than $66 billion.

In 1987 Congress estimated that the Medicaid Special Hospitals Subsidy would hit $100 million in 1992. The actual bill came to $11 billion. The initial costs of Medicare's kidney-dialysis program, passed in 1972, were more than twice projected levels.

The Congressional Budget Office doubled the estimated cost of Medicare's catastrophic insurance benefit—subsequently repealed—from $5.7 billion to $11.8 billion annually within the first year of its passage. The agency increased the projected cost of the skilled nursing benefit an astonishing sevenfold over roughly the same time frame, from $2.1 billion to $13.5 billion. And in 1935 a naive Congress predicted $3.5 billion in Social Security outlays in 1980, one-thirtieth the actual level of $105 billion.

gibby08 wrote: This is fucking incredible

gibby08 wrote: I'm not talking about that..

I'm talking about how when the CBO agrees with you people...you love them

When they don't...they suck and are unreliable

gibby08 wrote: I'm not talking about that..

I'm talking about how when the CBO agrees with you people...you love them

When they don't...they suck and are unreliable

QuakerOats wrote: Medicare-- a system designed and paid for by an employee's tax withholding and an employer matching amount so that that person would have a 'trust' to pay for their medical care after retirement. To now have that fund (and their trust money) raided by Obama/Pelosi/Reid in order to pay to 'insure' illegals, deadbeats, those who do not want coverage etc..etc... is THEFT!

Change we can believe in .................................