SQ_Crazies wrote: I'm not running away from anything, you've proved everything in this thread that I wanted you to collectively.

NNN wrote:

SQ_Crazies wrote: If you don't think that religion has messed up the world then I don't care to talk to you because you're brain washed.

If we were to go strictly by a body count, the two most evil rulers in history were Mao and Stalin; each is believed to have had upward of 50 million of their own people killed.

What religion were they? That's right: militant atheist. Stalin had more people killed in the Ukrainian Autocephalous Church alone than the combined body count of every Christian ruler in history, and he still had another 48 million or more to go in addition to that.

3reppom wrote:

NNN wrote:

SQ_Crazies wrote: If you don't think that religion has messed up the world then I don't care to talk to you because you're brain washed.

If we were to go strictly by a body count, the two most evil rulers in history were Mao and Stalin; each is believed to have had upward of 50 million of their own people killed.

What religion were they? That's right: militant atheist. Stalin had more people killed in the Ukrainian Autocephalous Church alone than the combined body count of every Christian ruler in history, and he still had another 48 million or more to go in addition to that.

Stalin and Mao were both paranoid megalomaniacs who did everything they could to achieve and maintain their positions as the leaders of their respective countries. The personality traits that drove them to commit such heinous crimes while in power would have been just as evident had both been born and raised Christian or Jewish, Muslim or Hindu. The personality and psychological makeups of Mao and Stalin had far more to do with their actions than the fact that they were atheists.

NNN wrote:

3reppom wrote:

NNN wrote:

SQ_Crazies wrote: If you don't think that religion has messed up the world then I don't care to talk to you because you're brain washed.

If we were to go strictly by a body count, the two most evil rulers in history were Mao and Stalin; each is believed to have had upward of 50 million of their own people killed.

What religion were they? That's right: militant atheist. Stalin had more people killed in the Ukrainian Autocephalous Church alone than the combined body count of every Christian ruler in history, and he still had another 48 million or more to go in addition to that.

Stalin and Mao were both paranoid megalomaniacs who did everything they could to achieve and maintain their positions as the leaders of their respective countries. The personality traits that drove them to commit such heinous crimes while in power would have been just as evident had both been born and raised Christian or Jewish, Muslim or Hindu. The personality and psychological makeups of Mao and Stalin had far more to do with their actions than the fact that they were atheists.

This might make more sense if not for the fact that every communist leader in history (with the possible exceptions of Nagy, Kadar, and Gorbachev) has the blood of enormous numbers of innocent people on their hands. And there are plenty of paranoid megalomaniacs who have held power in non-communist countries who didn't resort to having all their enemies killed.

At some point, you have to look at the underlying ideology as being the basis for the behavior. Karl Marx was strongly anti-religion, and nearly every communist leader either grew up atheist or abandoned religion at an early age; again, Kadar and Nagy were the notable exceptions.

NNN wrote:

3reppom wrote:

NNN wrote:

SQ_Crazies wrote: If you don't think that religion has messed up the world then I don't care to talk to you because you're brain washed.

If we were to go strictly by a body count, the two most evil rulers in history were Mao and Stalin; each is believed to have had upward of 50 million of their own people killed.

What religion were they? That's right: militant atheist. Stalin had more people killed in the Ukrainian Autocephalous Church alone than the combined body count of every Christian ruler in history, and he still had another 48 million or more to go in addition to that.

Stalin and Mao were both paranoid megalomaniacs who did everything they could to achieve and maintain their positions as the leaders of their respective countries. The personality traits that drove them to commit such heinous crimes while in power would have been just as evident had both been born and raised Christian or Jewish, Muslim or Hindu. The personality and psychological makeups of Mao and Stalin had far more to do with their actions than the fact that they were atheists.

This might make more sense if not for the fact that every communist leader in history (with the possible exceptions of Nagy, Kadar, and Gorbachev) has the blood of enormous numbers of innocent people on their hands. And there are plenty of paranoid megalomaniacs who have held power in non-communist countries who didn't resort to having all their enemies killed.

At some point, you have to look at the underlying ideology as being the basis for the behavior. Karl Marx was strongly anti-religion, and nearly every communist leader either grew up atheist or abandoned religion at an early age; again, Kadar and Nagy were the notable exceptions.

FairwoodKing wrote: As far as Series62 is concerned, he lost all credibility when he insisted that homosexuality is a choice. This is a typical Christian attitude and it sucks. If sexuality is a choice, then when did any of you chose to be straight? You didn't chose. It is just something that happened. For us, being gay is just something that happens. It doesn't matter what the Bible says, being gay is as natural for me as being straight is for you.

FairwoodKing wrote: On a slightly different subject, there is one thing that even I do not understand about homosexuality. I could never comprehend why there are so many devout gay Christians. Christianity obviously does not want us, so why do so many of us want it? Some of my closest gay friends are Adventists. They follow the Old Testament (as well as New Testament) to the letter-- no pork, no shellfish, and they worship on Saturdays even though they are Christians. Yet they are sexually active gays who seem to have no conflict. I also have some gay Catholic friends who feel they are as religious as the most religious straight people. I have asked my friends about their beliefs, but I have never gotten a good answer. My friends, gay and straight, know I'm an atheist and they tend not to share their beliefs with me for fear of offending me, I guess. Or maybe they don't want me to offend them.

Anyone want to take a stab at this?

pkebker wrote: Does it really matter if homosexuality is a choice or not. ...

B-I know that homosexuality is a choice, as is your decision to have sex with men.

Series62 wrote:

FairwoodKing wrote: As far as Series62 is concerned, he lost all credibility when he insisted that homosexuality is a choice. This is a typical Christian attitude and it sucks. If sexuality is a choice, then when did any of you chose to be straight? You didn't chose. It is just something that happened. For us, being gay is just something that happens. It doesn't matter what the Bible says, being gay is as natural for me as being straight is for you.

A-No attempt made to gain credibility.
B-I know that homosexuality is a choice, as is your decision to have sex with men.
C-I was born a male, that's how God made me, that is when I became straight, I didn't have to choose that which was obvious.
D-If you had an erection at 5 years old looking at men, I thinking that some sort of sordid molestation was already happening to you.
E-What the Bible says and teaches does matter and a time will come when you will realize that.

Devils Advocate wrote: Then believe this:

Deuteronomy 22: 13 A marriage shall be considered valid only if the wife is a virgin. If the wife is not a virgin she shall be executed.

FairwoodKing wrote: How in the fuck would you know? You believe in the Bible, so you don't know anything.