1_beast
Posts: 5,642
Mar 2, 2010 4:39am
Looks like some changes may be looked at??? I doubt it...something to chew on
http://www.the-daily-record.com/news/article/4780279
http://www.the-daily-record.com/news/article/4780279
GoChiefs
Posts: 16,754
Mar 2, 2010 8:49am
I doubt anything changes. I'm 50/50 on it anyways. I'd like to see some changes made just b/c of the whole private school 'advantage' thing. But then again..I feel to be the best..you should have to beat the best too.
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Con_Alma
Posts: 12,198
Mar 2, 2010 9:40am
"...Just under 40 percent of the 831 OHSAA member schools responded to the survey, with 82 of 88 counties represented.
Sixty-seven percent of the responders answered "yes" to this question: "Do you believe there exists a competitive balance issue between public and non-public schools with the current tournament structure in OHSAA?" ..."
67% of 40% of the member schools answered they think there's a competitive balance issue.
I believe that's 26.8%.
"..."We want to turn the tables on our survey results," Beatty said. "We want 75 percent of people to agree that there is a good competitive balance." ..."
With only 26.8 percent definitively stating there 's not a good competitive balance the group might be closer than they think regarding getting that number down to 25%.
Sixty-seven percent of the responders answered "yes" to this question: "Do you believe there exists a competitive balance issue between public and non-public schools with the current tournament structure in OHSAA?" ..."
67% of 40% of the member schools answered they think there's a competitive balance issue.
I believe that's 26.8%.
"..."We want to turn the tables on our survey results," Beatty said. "We want 75 percent of people to agree that there is a good competitive balance." ..."
With only 26.8 percent definitively stating there 's not a good competitive balance the group might be closer than they think regarding getting that number down to 25%.
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queencitybuckeye
Posts: 7,117
Mar 2, 2010 9:55am
Unequal results are not proof of unequal opportunity.
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catchr22
Posts: 72
Mar 2, 2010 11:24am
You want cheese with this whine!!!
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general94
Posts: 91
Mar 2, 2010 11:56am
Good for them, but I'm sure we will hear the usual comments like the ones above. I used to be of that mentality too, (quit whining, to be the best you have to beat the best) until I examined the issue more closely. The numbers in the article do the talking I guess.
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buckeyedan
Posts: 53
Mar 2, 2010 12:30pm
wait...
if it's whining and you should just play...
shouldn't the private schools be fine with playing up? I mean if they aren't wouldn't THAT be whining? Just play!
irony of course... it's the american way!
if it's whining and you should just play...
shouldn't the private schools be fine with playing up? I mean if they aren't wouldn't THAT be whining? Just play!
irony of course... it's the american way!
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scout2
Posts: 10
Mar 2, 2010 12:57pm
Good programs attract good players. Most public schools have much more to offer both in the classroom and on the field. Get involved, support your school and most of all.....go to CYO fields and scout their 8th grade players encouaging the benefits of your program. I have found that by playing the game in a "level" fashion one can even things up a bit! The private schools are essential to the competitive pace within our sporting leagues by virtue of their design and makes for some great rivilary!! [/size]
if it's whining and you should just play...
shouldn't the private schools be fine with playing up? I mean if they aren't wouldn't THAT be whining? Just play!
irony of course... it's the american way!
[/quote]
if it's whining and you should just play...
shouldn't the private schools be fine with playing up? I mean if they aren't wouldn't THAT be whining? Just play!
irony of course... it's the american way!
[/quote]
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Con_Alma
Posts: 12,198
Mar 2, 2010 1:02pm
\buckeyedan wrote: ...
if it's whining and you should just play...
shouldn't the private schools be fine with playing up? I mean if they aren't wouldn't THAT be whining? Just play!
...
I agree. End all the whining and make one division.
Wooball
Posts: 1,325
Mar 2, 2010 1:59pm
Con_Alma wrote:
67% of 40% of the member schools answered they think there's a competitive balance issue.
I believe that's 26.8%.
"..."We want to turn the tables on our survey results," Beatty said. "We want 75 percent of people to agree that there is a good competitive balance." ..."
With only 26.8 percent definitively stating there 's not a good competitive balance the group might be closer than they think regarding getting that number down to 25%.
That would be assuming that the remaining 60% that didn't send in their survey believed there is nothing wrong with the current system. Based on the surveys that were sent in I don't know how you could make that assumption???
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Con_Alma
Posts: 12,198
Mar 2, 2010 2:18pm
I didn't assume anything. Read my words more carefully.
Only 26.8 percent definitively stating there's not a good competitive balance is a fact not an assumption. Others might agree there's not a competitive balance but didn't state as much. No assumptions made.
Not knowing the others' opinions the group "might" be closer than they think. No assumption there either. They might but we don't know.
Con_Alma wrote: ...
With only 26.8 percent definitively stating there 's not a good competitive balance the group might be closer than they think regarding getting that number down to 25%.
Only 26.8 percent definitively stating there's not a good competitive balance is a fact not an assumption. Others might agree there's not a competitive balance but didn't state as much. No assumptions made.
Not knowing the others' opinions the group "might" be closer than they think. No assumption there either. They might but we don't know.
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buckeyedan
Posts: 53
Mar 2, 2010 2:19pm
yea!Con_Alma wrote:
I agree. End all the whining and make one division.
no more 6 division stuff!
everyone in the same boat!
Wooball
Posts: 1,325
Mar 2, 2010 2:52pm
Con_Alma wrote: I didn't assume anything. Read my words more carefully.Con_Alma wrote: ...
With only 26.8 percent definitively stating there 's not a good competitive balance the group might be closer than they think regarding getting that number down to 25%.
Only 26.8 percent definitively stating there's not a good competitive balance is a fact not an assumption. Others might agree there's not a competitive balance but didn't state as much. No assumptions made.
Not knowing the others' opinions the group "might" be closer than they think. No assumption there either. They might but we don't know.
I read what you wrote. Of the 499 schools that did not participate in the survey, only 38.67% of those schools would need to agree with the 67% that have already responded for half of the schools in the state to think that there is competitive imbalance in the OHSAA tournaments. I guess you didn't make an assumption in your post, but the thought you presented seems very slim to be a reality. I would say the entire population is going to be close to the sample presented by the article in reference.
fish82
Posts: 4,111
Mar 2, 2010 2:54pm
Perhaps schools would be wise to study and emulate those publics that seem to have no difficulty competing with the privates on a regular basis.
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Con_Alma
Posts: 12,198
Mar 2, 2010 2:55pm
...you mean like those with open enrollment???
I think it would be great if all public schools were open enrollment until they reach their cap. Now we are talking fair competition.
I think it would be great if all public schools were open enrollment until they reach their cap. Now we are talking fair competition.
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Con_Alma
Posts: 12,198
Mar 2, 2010 2:58pm
Thank you for acknowledging that. I am glad we can agree on it.Wooball wrote:
... I guess you didn't make an assumption in your post, ...
That is an assumption. Is it not?Wooball wrote:...I would say the entire population is going to be close to the sample presented by the article in reference.
Wooball
Posts: 1,325
Mar 2, 2010 3:07pm
Con_Alma wrote:
That is an assumption. Is it not?Wooball wrote:...I would say the entire population is going to be close to the sample presented by the article in reference.
Yes it is, but it is an assumption based on a fairly large sample of schools spread throughout the state of Ohio.
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Con_Alma
Posts: 12,198
Mar 2, 2010 3:12pm
I'm glad we can agree. Thank for your responses.
Often times folks on her tend to get very nasty. It's appreciated when people can truly discuss things like adults.
Often times folks on her tend to get very nasty. It's appreciated when people can truly discuss things like adults.
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queencitybuckeye
Posts: 7,117
Mar 2, 2010 3:28pm
Even if one stipulated that this may be the case, one could argue that those who didn't respond may feel there a imbalance, but for whatever reason don't deem it a big enough deal to repond.Wooball wrote: I would say the entire population is going to be close to the sample presented by the article in reference.
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Con_Alma
Posts: 12,198
Mar 2, 2010 3:31pm
That's my bet....but I don't want to assume. 
ManO'War
Posts: 1,420
Mar 2, 2010 3:42pm
My bet would be that they didn't respond for various reasons.
I don't know anyone that can actually say with a straight face that private schools in large metro areas don't have a huge advantage over rural schools that they are often placed in the same division with.
My solution would be to take the farthest student that is attending a private school, draw that as a radius around the school, and then add up the population that resides inside that circle. Do that for every school to determine their division.
I don't know anyone that can actually say with a straight face that private schools in large metro areas don't have a huge advantage over rural schools that they are often placed in the same division with.
My solution would be to take the farthest student that is attending a private school, draw that as a radius around the school, and then add up the population that resides inside that circle. Do that for every school to determine their division.
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queencitybuckeye
Posts: 7,117
Mar 2, 2010 3:51pm
I assume it would also apply to open enrollment public schools, correct?ManO'War wrote: My bet would be that they didn't respond for various reasons.
I don't know anyone that can actually say with a straight face that private schools in large metro areas don't have a huge advantage over rural schools that they are often placed in the same division with.
My solution would be to take the farthest student that is attending a private school, draw that as a radius around the school, and then add up the population that resides inside that circle. Do that for every school to determine their division.
ManO'War
Posts: 1,420
Mar 2, 2010 4:03pm
Sure. Every school.
Realistically most open enrollment schools are only drawing from the surrounding districts anyways, while private schools are drawing from different counties.
Big Red farthest students come from about 5 miles out the road, and some that are from "another district" actually reside inside the city of Steubenville.
Realistically most open enrollment schools are only drawing from the surrounding districts anyways, while private schools are drawing from different counties.
Big Red farthest students come from about 5 miles out the road, and some that are from "another district" actually reside inside the city of Steubenville.
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buckeyedan
Posts: 53
Mar 3, 2010 8:26am
what boggles my mind here is we all understand that the population matters: we have 6 divisions... nobody things a tiny D6 team should be competing with Glennville, UA or St X...
but when it comes to the different populations of public vs private we just bury our heads in the sand and point to a couple public schools with a program that can make a run for a few years?
just weird
but when it comes to the different populations of public vs private we just bury our heads in the sand and point to a couple public schools with a program that can make a run for a few years?
just weird
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Viking
Posts: 350
Mar 3, 2010 8:38am
Change is coming. The field will be leveled a bit.