Belly35
Posts: 9,716
Oct 21, 2015 12:41pm
Leftists argue that gun control is nonetheless the right policy because everyone gets disarmed.
Want to be like Europe and socialist gun control mentality may want to rethink that gun control is working.
https://danieljmitchell.wordpress.com/2015/09/05/if-gun-control-works-in-europe-where-do-terrorists-get-their-weapons/
how terrorists in Europe manage to get so many weapons when there are strict gun control laws.
…how did the misfired terrorist acquire his intended implements of destruction in supposedly gun-phobic Europe? Could it be that firearms aren’t quite so unavailable as right-thinking policy-peddlers assure us on their way to insisting that Americans should be disarmed in (supposed) likewise fashion? It’s a question that was also raised in the wake of the Charlie Hebdo attack by terrorists wielding AK-style rifles, pistols, and submachine guns. Observers were puzzled because France’s gun laws are relatively restrictive, and the terrorists clearly hadn’t bothered to navigate the byzantine red tape to acquire their weapons. So, where did they come from? In both cases, the answer is the same. Black markets thrive where legal availability is restricted or forbidden. …Europe has, by and large, more restrictive firearms laws than most American states. But those laws haven’t had much effect on the actual availability of guns, since they’ve been met by defiance and helped breed a brisk underground trade. And they’re certainly no barrier to small numbers of terrorists who have dedicated themselves to harming others and see the law as no hurdle to achieving that goal. The main impact then of restrictive gun laws may be to strip law-abiding people of means with which they might defend themselves while leaving criminals and terrorists well-armed.
Many of America’s safest states have lots of guns and few restrictions.
Vermont has some of the loosest gun laws in America. The Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence gives it an “F.” The state requires no background checks for private gun sales, permits the sale and possession of “assault weapons,” and allows concealed guns to be carried in public—without a license. … In 2013, it had the third-lowest homicide rate in the country—less than one-sixth that of Louisiana. Utah, which also got an “F” on its laws from the Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence, had the fourth-lowest homicide rate. These places refute the belief that loose gun rules and high ownership are bound to produce frenzies of carnage.
https://reason.com/archives/2015/09/01/europes-restrictive-gun-laws-disarm-vict
Yes, Europe has, by and large, more restrictive firearms laws than most American states. But those laws haven't had much effect on the actual availability of guns, since they've been met by defiance and helped breed a brisk underground trade. And they're certainly no barrier to small numbers of terrorists who have dedicated themselves to harming others and see the law as no hurdle to achieving that goal.
The main impact then of restrictive gun laws may be to strip law-abiding people of means with which they might defend themselves while leaving criminals and terrorists well-armed. That leaves intended victims in the difficult position of deciding whether to put their heads down and charge a homicidal fanatic holding an assault rifle. When successful, that makes for heroic headlines. But it's a hell of a risky tactic on which to rest your fate.
Reality check of the future:
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/10/21/guns-mace-krav-maga-israelis-embrace-self-defense-amid-stabbing-wave/?intcmp=hpbt2#
Want to be like Europe and socialist gun control mentality may want to rethink that gun control is working.
https://danieljmitchell.wordpress.com/2015/09/05/if-gun-control-works-in-europe-where-do-terrorists-get-their-weapons/
how terrorists in Europe manage to get so many weapons when there are strict gun control laws.
…how did the misfired terrorist acquire his intended implements of destruction in supposedly gun-phobic Europe? Could it be that firearms aren’t quite so unavailable as right-thinking policy-peddlers assure us on their way to insisting that Americans should be disarmed in (supposed) likewise fashion? It’s a question that was also raised in the wake of the Charlie Hebdo attack by terrorists wielding AK-style rifles, pistols, and submachine guns. Observers were puzzled because France’s gun laws are relatively restrictive, and the terrorists clearly hadn’t bothered to navigate the byzantine red tape to acquire their weapons. So, where did they come from? In both cases, the answer is the same. Black markets thrive where legal availability is restricted or forbidden. …Europe has, by and large, more restrictive firearms laws than most American states. But those laws haven’t had much effect on the actual availability of guns, since they’ve been met by defiance and helped breed a brisk underground trade. And they’re certainly no barrier to small numbers of terrorists who have dedicated themselves to harming others and see the law as no hurdle to achieving that goal. The main impact then of restrictive gun laws may be to strip law-abiding people of means with which they might defend themselves while leaving criminals and terrorists well-armed.
Many of America’s safest states have lots of guns and few restrictions.
Vermont has some of the loosest gun laws in America. The Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence gives it an “F.” The state requires no background checks for private gun sales, permits the sale and possession of “assault weapons,” and allows concealed guns to be carried in public—without a license. … In 2013, it had the third-lowest homicide rate in the country—less than one-sixth that of Louisiana. Utah, which also got an “F” on its laws from the Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence, had the fourth-lowest homicide rate. These places refute the belief that loose gun rules and high ownership are bound to produce frenzies of carnage.
https://reason.com/archives/2015/09/01/europes-restrictive-gun-laws-disarm-vict
Yes, Europe has, by and large, more restrictive firearms laws than most American states. But those laws haven't had much effect on the actual availability of guns, since they've been met by defiance and helped breed a brisk underground trade. And they're certainly no barrier to small numbers of terrorists who have dedicated themselves to harming others and see the law as no hurdle to achieving that goal.
The main impact then of restrictive gun laws may be to strip law-abiding people of means with which they might defend themselves while leaving criminals and terrorists well-armed. That leaves intended victims in the difficult position of deciding whether to put their heads down and charge a homicidal fanatic holding an assault rifle. When successful, that makes for heroic headlines. But it's a hell of a risky tactic on which to rest your fate.
Reality check of the future:
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/10/21/guns-mace-krav-maga-israelis-embrace-self-defense-amid-stabbing-wave/?intcmp=hpbt2#
W
Wolves of Babylon
Posts: 408
Oct 21, 2015 12:48pm
Someone posting about Australia in 3...2...1....
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Sent from my VS986 using Tapatalk
Belly35
Posts: 9,716
Oct 21, 2015 5:05pm
Wolves of Babylon;1758314 wrote:Someone posting about Australia in 3...2...1....
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Glad you ask: So fun facts http://www.gunfacts.info/gun-control-myths/guns-in-other-countries/
Fact: Ironically, firearm use in crimes in the UK has doubled in the decade since handguns were banned. Bad guys have guns :0
Fast: Australia from the inception of firearm confiscation to March 27, 2000, the numbers are:
Firearm-related murders were up 19%
Armed robberies were up 69%
Home invasions were up 21%
The sad part is that in the 15 years before the national gun confiscation:
Firearm-related homicides dropped nearly 66%
Firearm-related deaths fell 50%
More violent crime in Australia : http://www.ncpa.org/sub/dpd/?Article_ID=17847
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Wolves of Babylon
Posts: 408
Oct 21, 2015 5:16pm
I was just saying that because I'm sure someone eventually would have brought up Australia.
As a Libertarian, I obviously agree with the right to own a gun. I do think our culture does obsess over guns at times and it almost becomes a fetish of sorts for some people.
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As a Libertarian, I obviously agree with the right to own a gun. I do think our culture does obsess over guns at times and it almost becomes a fetish of sorts for some people.
Sent from my VS986 using Tapatalk
rmolin73
Posts: 4,278
Oct 21, 2015 8:56pm
But, but, but Australia!!!!!!
O-Trap
Posts: 14,994
Oct 22, 2015 4:16pm
I would pipe up, but this is pretty much what I would have said.Wolves of Babylon;1758349 wrote:I was just saying that because I'm sure someone eventually would have brought up Australia.
As a Libertarian, I obviously agree with the right to own a gun. I do think our culture does obsess over guns at times and it almost becomes a fetish of sorts for some people.
HitsRus
Posts: 9,206
Oct 22, 2015 8:56pm
It's unfortunate, but politician's have myopically framed the violence/mass murder problem as a referendum on guns and gun control. Guns have been around a long time, and nothing has really changed in the abilty to obtain them...so the real question is what has happened in our society to cause the outbreak of violence. That question is much more difficult and complex. Politicians want simple answers...and simple solutions that allow for demagoguery and voter appeal. It is so much easier for them to single out guns then to actually have to get to bottom of a complex issue and problem....especially one that they have some complicity in causing.
W
Wolves of Babylon
Posts: 408
Oct 22, 2015 9:25pm
Kids not getting laid. True cause of mass shootings.HitsRus;1758565 wrote:It's unfortunate, but politician's have myopically framed the violence/mass murder problem as a referendum on guns and gun control. Guns have been around a long time, and nothing has really changed in the abilty to obtain them...so the real question is what has happened in our society to cause the outbreak of violence. That question is much more difficult and complex. Politicians want simple answers...and simple solutions that allow for demagoguery and voter appeal. It is so much easier for them to single out guns then to actually have to get to bottom of a complex issue and problem....especially one that they have some complicity in causing.
https://youtu.be/Lad26hfccS4
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HitsRus
Posts: 9,206
Oct 22, 2015 9:55pm
I pretty much hate Bill Maher...but that was funny.
I
isadore
Posts: 7,762
Oct 24, 2015 8:25pm
Gosh a ruddies, oh the horrible violence situation in Australia
Murder Rates per 100,000
Canada 1.6
United States 4.7
Japan 0.3
Denmark 0.8
Norway 2.2
Ireland 1.2
Sweden 0.7
Italy 0.9
UK 1.0
Germany 0.8
France 1.0
Australia 1.1
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate
Murder Rates per 100,000
Canada 1.6
United States 4.7
Japan 0.3
Denmark 0.8
Norway 2.2
Ireland 1.2
Sweden 0.7
Italy 0.9
UK 1.0
Germany 0.8
France 1.0
Australia 1.1
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate
Belly35
Posts: 9,716
Oct 26, 2015 7:02am
Really! Seens the article tell a different story of what happens to the citizen, when gun control ban happens and bad guys keep their gun.....isadore;1758774 wrote:Gosh a ruddies, oh the horrible violence situation in Australia
Murder Rates per 100,000
Canada 1.6
United States 4.7
Japan 0.3http://louderwithcrowder.com/obama-praises-australias-gun-ban-the-actual-results/
Denmark 0.8
Norway 2.2
Ireland 1.2
Sweden 0.7
Italy 0.9
UK 1.0
Germany 0.8
France 1.0
Australia 1.1
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate
http://louderwithcrowder.com/obama-praises-australias-gun-ban-the-actual-results/
I
isadore
Posts: 7,762
Oct 26, 2015 8:09am
that is a rave not an argument
well lets see 15 times less likely to murdered in Japan, 5 times Denmark, Norway 2 times, Ireland 4 times, 7 times Sweden, Italy 5, UK 5 times, Germany 6 times, France 5 times, Australia 4 times
well lets see 15 times less likely to murdered in Japan, 5 times Denmark, Norway 2 times, Ireland 4 times, 7 times Sweden, Italy 5, UK 5 times, Germany 6 times, France 5 times, Australia 4 times
dontcare
Posts: 425
Oct 26, 2015 8:26am
Australia 1.1, USA 4.7, that's a big difference Belly but then again the USA as nearly 15 times more people. For being a CCW holder for nearly 10 years now and for what happened to myself and family 8 years ago, I'll be keeping my firearms and carrying daily as my family members now do as well. Nothing will ever stop me from doing so....ever. Anyone that wants to disarm me or make it harder for me, my family and the 99.9992% of other legal firearm owners to protect themselves, can drop dead.Belly35;1758986 wrote:Really! Seens the article tell a different story of what happens to the citizen, when gun control ban happens and bad guys keep their gun.....
http://louderwithcrowder.com/obama-praises-australias-gun-ban-the-actual-results/
I
isadore
Posts: 7,762
Oct 26, 2015 8:30am
Gosh a ruddies
Your buddy uses rape rate as an argument, well what is the rape rate in these countries per 100,000
compared to 8 out of 10 of the countries the United States is either worse, much worse, much, much worse, or unbelievably worse
Canada 1.7
United States 27.3
Japan 1
Denmark 6.4
Norway19.2
Ireland 10.7
Sweden 63.5
Italy 7.6
Germany 9.4
France 16.2
Australia 28.6
http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Crime/Rape-rate
Your buddy uses rape rate as an argument, well what is the rape rate in these countries per 100,000
compared to 8 out of 10 of the countries the United States is either worse, much worse, much, much worse, or unbelievably worse
Canada 1.7
United States 27.3
Japan 1
Denmark 6.4
Norway19.2
Ireland 10.7
Sweden 63.5
Italy 7.6
Germany 9.4
France 16.2
Australia 28.6
http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Crime/Rape-rate
Q
queencitybuckeye
Posts: 7,117
Oct 26, 2015 10:38am
When will the president be speaking on behalf of "Common sense car laws" based on Saturday's tragedy?
Q
QuakerOats
Posts: 8,740
Oct 28, 2015 2:53pm
isadore;1758774 wrote:Gosh a ruddies, oh the horrible violence situation in Australia
Murder Rates per 100,000
Canada 1.6
United States 4.7
Japan 0.3
Denmark 0.8
Norway 2.2
Ireland 1.2
Sweden 0.7
Italy 0.9
UK 1.0
Germany 0.8
France 1.0
Australia 1.1
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate
What is the % of blacks in those other countries?
Belly35
Posts: 9,716
Oct 28, 2015 3:03pm
. Ouch!QuakerOats;1759592 wrote:What is the % of blacks in those other countries?
a valid point...
rmolin73
Posts: 4,278
Oct 28, 2015 4:57pm
Hardly any in Sweden hence the high rape rates.QuakerOats;1759592 wrote:What is the % of blacks in those other countries?
G
gut
Posts: 15,058
Oct 28, 2015 6:18pm
There are 300M guns in the US? You can't put that horse back in the barn, and no gun law is going to scoop up the illegal guns or take guns out of the hands of criminals...and modern fire arms will likely continue to work well into the next century (although most criminals probably don't practice particularly good gun maintenance).
And I think there's also a cultural difference in the US that is more prone to violence.
There are some things that can and should be done on the margin. But guns are mostly a wedge issue that neatly herds significant voting blocs into single-issue voters, much like abortion. Both a very nice distraction in election cycles from issues we need to and can do something about.
And I think there's also a cultural difference in the US that is more prone to violence.
There are some things that can and should be done on the margin. But guns are mostly a wedge issue that neatly herds significant voting blocs into single-issue voters, much like abortion. Both a very nice distraction in election cycles from issues we need to and can do something about.
HitsRus
Posts: 9,206
Oct 28, 2015 6:49pm
^^Just another "weapon" in the politics of division that nets democrats votes.
I
isadore
Posts: 7,762
Oct 28, 2015 8:20pm
the veto a gun nut NRA minority has on any meaningful gun legislation will in the long run bring a reaction against gun ownership
as the number of gun owners and the number of hunters continues to decline.
as the number of gun owners and the number of hunters continues to decline.
HitsRus
Posts: 9,206
Oct 28, 2015 11:42pm
70% of this country, in a recent poll,correctly identified that guns were not the cause of the mass murder problem plagueing this country....the other 30% are idiots or progressives....which many feel are one and the same.
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isadore
Posts: 7,762
Oct 29, 2015 7:45am
gosh a ruddies, the majority of Americans support tighter gun control but it is prevented by gun nuts and reprobate reactionaries
Belly35
Posts: 9,716
Oct 29, 2015 7:48am
isadore;1759631 wrote:the veto a gun nut NRA minority has on any meaningful gun legislation will in the long run bring a reaction against gun ownership
as the number of gun owners and the number of hunters continues to decline.
I would like to thank Obama for the increase in gun sales in the past 8 years... And the democrat socialist party for the stimulation of people to buy weapons. Great job ...
More gun owners own more weapons... Because we can and because we like ownership of our rights .... Plus weapons are something many enjoy having, for sport, protection and our rights and more individual are getting on board.
More women own guns now than ever .. The new gun owners, trained and prepared women citizen.
More democratic house holds have gun than ever before... Thank you Obama
More are signing up for CCW
More citizens able (legally) to own weapons choose to be individuals households with weapon that are unregistered ... ....Thank you again democrat socialist party
More military house holds have weapons...
More 7/11 store owners have guns
More people have weapons in their cars and trucks
http://bearingarms.com/debunking-declining-number-gun-owners-lie/
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isadore
Posts: 7,762
Oct 29, 2015 9:15am
