2015-2016 Cleveland Cavaliers World Champions!

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sleeper's avatar

sleeper

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Jan 19, 2016 11:17 AM
HighRoller74;1776628 wrote:1.) Cavs are over the cap with or without Love, 0 roster flexibility either way.
2.) If Love was a FA there would be a line of teams willing to give him the same contract he has right now, this past off-season proves that.
3.) Cavs do need to bring in another PF, James Jones can't play real minutes for this team.
4.) Team is deeper now with Love, than it would be with Wiggins which is my point.
You keep pointing out #1 in saying it doesn't matter however that is entirely untrue. The Cavs had options for sign and trades with Love if they really didn't want him and that alone can provide flexibility in the roster and financially by having smaller easier to move contracts. There were other options, but the Cavs thought his previous season made him worth a max deal. They chose poorly.

And point #4 is entirely false. If we still had Wiggins we would have had significant cap savings since you also could make the assumption that we wouldn't have JR, Shumpert, or Movgoz(or Love). That alone is about $40M in savings without including the premium we paid on TT because of our weak negotiating position.
Jan 19, 2016 11:17am
SportsAndLady's avatar

SportsAndLady

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Jan 19, 2016 11:18 AM
HighRoller74;1776625 wrote:Love is not great on defense, I definitely agree, but statically he's far better than Wiggins has been this season.
Love is on a winning team, playing multiple games in prime time.

Wiggins is on the fucking T-Wolves, when was the last time they played a game on tnt or ESPN?

Point is...put Wiggins on the cavs from day 1 and the effort would be there to improve on D. He's simply not trying in Minnesota.

Note: not saying him not trying is an excuse for Wiggins. I hate when players slack off because their team sucks. But it does happen, and skews their ratings.
Jan 19, 2016 11:18am
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ZWICK 4 PREZ

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Jan 19, 2016 11:19 AM
sleeper;1776605 wrote:BTW, no doubt AV is traded soon. He won't be on the team next year anyway.
traded soon? who wants his contract lol
Jan 19, 2016 11:19am
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Lovejoy1984

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Jan 19, 2016 11:45 AM
At this point, all the back and forth about Wiggins/Love is just arguing To hear/see ourselves argue. I firmly believe we're a better team with Love and the other moves we've made, and you guys feel the team will be better with Wiggins, and any hypothetical moves that might've been made.

I agree love has came up small this season in the the few big games we've played. But he's still averaging a double double this season and shouldn't be relied upon to carry the team once we get to the post season.

Is anyone else worried about Kyrie these last couple games, he was torched on defense and was just bad on offense. Do you think it's just getting back in to shape, or do we have a problem on our hands with him when we get to the post season.
Jan 19, 2016 11:45am
lhslep134's avatar

lhslep134

why so serious?

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Jan 19, 2016 11:49 AM
BR1986FB;1776549 wrote:I agree with this. You'd hope the team would at least show up, especially after Curry's "champagne" comments before the game. No heart, no guts last night. Very disappointing. Playoff basketball will be different but Chris Webber's comments were spot on when he said "the Warriors look like the team who lost in the Finals" (referring to how hungry they looked).
You can yell this from the top of the trees for all mankind to hear and it doesn't make the game any more relevant.

For a championship caliber team, an individual regular season game is completely meaningless. Please point me to a source making a legitimate argument otherwise.
Jan 19, 2016 11:49am
lhslep134's avatar

lhslep134

why so serious?

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Jan 19, 2016 11:52 AM
SportsAndLady;1776641 wrote:

Point is...put Wiggins on the cavs from day 1 and the effort would be there to improve on D. He's simply not trying in Minnesota.

Note: not saying him not trying is an excuse for Wiggins. I hate when players slack off because their team sucks. But it does happen, and skews their ratings.

You can't just say that a number 1 stud who already has effort issues on a shitty team would all of a sudden try a lot harder when he's the number 3 option on a great team. It's completely unknown if his effort level would improve. It's not like he showed consistent effort at Kansas either.
Jan 19, 2016 11:52am
Automatik's avatar

Automatik

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Jan 19, 2016 11:55 AM
You're kidding yourself if you think last nights game was "meaningless." Do you think the players feel that way? LeBron?

"Just got rolled by 34 in our house, no big deal." :laugh:
Jan 19, 2016 11:55am
lhslep134's avatar

lhslep134

why so serious?

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Jan 19, 2016 11:58 AM
Automatik;1776654 wrote:You're kidding yourself if you think last nights game was "meaningless." Do you think the players feel that way? LeBron?

You're being extraordinarily ignorant if you believe the outcome of a single regular season game has any impact on the Cavaliers' chances of winning the Finals.


Like I said, it sucked to watch that shitty performance but it has ZERO impact on what happens in June.
Jan 19, 2016 11:58am
Automatik's avatar

Automatik

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Jan 19, 2016 12:01 PM
A direct impact? Maybe not.

A precursor the future? Yeah.

Care to answer my question regarding the players?
Jan 19, 2016 12:01pm
Automatik's avatar

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Jan 19, 2016 12:04 PM
lhslep134;1776655 wrote:

Like I said, it sucked to watch that shitty performance but it has ZERO impact on what happens in June.
Imagine if you were in attendance. I had a group of friends there, paid out the ass for tickets to view that beating.
Jan 19, 2016 12:04pm
like_that's avatar

like_that

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Jan 19, 2016 12:10 PM
There is definitely an impact, but hopefully it will be a positive reminder to the players that the Cavs are not where they need to be.
Jan 19, 2016 12:10pm
lhslep134's avatar

lhslep134

why so serious?

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Jan 19, 2016 12:15 PM
Automatik;1776656 wrote: Care to answer my question regarding the players?
I did.
lhslep134;1776655 wrote: it has ZERO impact on what happens in June.

I don't give a fuck if Lebron's feelz are hurt because of a regular season game. It. Doesn't. Impact. What. Happens. In. June.
Jan 19, 2016 12:15pm
Automatik's avatar

Automatik

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Jan 19, 2016 12:20 PM
Still not "meaningless." Good day!
Jan 19, 2016 12:20pm
sleeper's avatar

sleeper

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Jan 19, 2016 12:22 PM
ZWICK 4 PREZ;1776642 wrote:traded soon? who wants his contract lol
He is only on a guaranteed contract through the end of this year. His last 2 years are non-guaranteed.

He could be traded to a team who wants to shed salary and the Cavs can get assets + a player for helping.
Jan 19, 2016 12:22pm
B

BR1986FB

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Jan 19, 2016 12:22 PM
sleeper;1776602 wrote: The Cavs need to make a roster change at this point. The roster isn't as deep as you think it is.
Wait, what happened to the "best roster in the NBA" stuff you've been spewing?
Jan 19, 2016 12:22pm
sleeper's avatar

sleeper

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Jan 19, 2016 12:23 PM
Automatik;1776654 wrote:You're kidding yourself if you think last nights game was "meaningless." Do you think the players feel that way? LeBron?

"Just got rolled by 34 in our house, no big deal." :laugh:
This 100%. This was a big loss and a signal that the Cavs are nowhere near where they need to be.
Jan 19, 2016 12:23pm
sleeper's avatar

sleeper

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Jan 19, 2016 12:25 PM
HighRoller74;1776651 wrote:At this point, all the back and forth about Wiggins/Love is just arguing To hear/see ourselves argue. I firmly believe we're a better team with Love and the other moves we've made, and you guys feel the team will be better with Wiggins, and any hypothetical moves that might've been made.

I agree love has came up small this season in the the few big games we've played. But he's still averaging a double double this season and shouldn't be relied upon to carry the team once we get to the post season.

Is anyone else worried about Kyrie these last couple games, he was torched on defense and was just bad on offense. Do you think it's just getting back in to shape, or do we have a problem on our hands with him when we get to the post season.
Two points:
#1) Love is the second highest paid player on the team. He should absolutely be relied on to "carry" the team in the post season along with Lebron and Irving. Love isn't a rotational player, he's supposed to be a star and a key piece. Right now, he's dog shit.

#2) I'm not worried about Irving. I think he is still not 100% in sync but hopefully that will come as the season progresses.
Jan 19, 2016 12:25pm
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sleeper

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Jan 19, 2016 12:29 PM
BR1986FB;1776663 wrote:Wait, what happened to the "best roster in the NBA" stuff you've been spewing?
On paper they are the best team in the NBA. On paper, Love is a top 10 player in the NBA. On paper, TT is the best 6th man in the NBA.

On paper, the Cavs are the 2015 NBA champions. Reality is telling us differently. Reality is telling us we have the best roster in the East. Reality is that we are not as good as GSW right now. Reality is telling us we need to get better.
Jan 19, 2016 12:29pm
sleeper's avatar

sleeper

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Jan 19, 2016 12:33 PM
lhslep134;1776660 wrote:I don't give a fuck if Lebron's feelz are hurt because of a regular season game. It. Doesn't. Impact. What. Happens. In. June.
I think you are being a bit obtuse in saying it doesn't matter. Sure, its 1 loss and no loss is more significant than any other in the regular season. The Cavs are going to be the #1 seed in the East and should be a shoe-in to the NBA finals.

However, their recent losses to GSW and the Spurs are a big signal and are meaningful. They signify that the Cavs may not be where they need to be and if something doesn't change you can't with any confidence say the Cavs are the NBA favorites. With the roster they have and the money for that roster, the Cavs should be dominating the NBA right now. They just got blown out, at home, to their probable opponent in the NBA finals. That is not meaningless.
Jan 19, 2016 12:33pm
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Jan 19, 2016 12:35 PM
I think the finals are going to be the same scenario as last year. The west will have the best team (whether spurs or warriors), the cavs have the best player. Lebron is always the great equalizer.

As long as we play in the east and he's on the roster, there are only 4 games worth worrying about.
Jan 19, 2016 12:35pm
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BR1986FB

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Jan 19, 2016 12:37 PM
sleeper;1776668 wrote:I think you are being a bit obtuse in saying it doesn't matter. Sure, its 1 loss and no loss is more significant than any other in the regular season. The Cavs are going to be the #1 seed in the East and should be a shoe-in to the NBA finals.

However, their recent losses to GSW and the Spurs are a big signal and are meaningful. They signify that the Cavs may not be where they need to be and if something doesn't change you can't with any confidence say the Cavs are the NBA favorites. With the roster they have and the money for that roster, the Cavs should be dominating the NBA right now. They just got blown out, at home, to their probable opponent in the NBA finals. That is not meaningless.
They don't have the mindset of a championship caliber team. Plus, I think both coaches (Kerr & Pop) will outcoach Blatt. The clock is ticking on Lebron's prime. I think it's a very small window to bring a ring to Cleveland.
Jan 19, 2016 12:37pm
sleeper's avatar

sleeper

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Jan 19, 2016 12:45 PM
BR1986FB;1776671 wrote:They don't have the mindset of a championship caliber team. Plus, I think both coaches (Kerr & Pop) will outcoach Blatt. The clock is ticking on Lebron's prime. I think it's a very small window to bring a ring to Cleveland.
Lebron has regressed a bit. He's no doubt still arguably the best player in the NBA but he's not what he used to be. I think his plan is that Love and Irving, allegedly "all-stars", would start taking a majority of the minutes and contribute a high volume of points. The reality is, Love has been complete dogshit and Irving has been plagued with injury for a good chunk of his time with Lebron in Cleveland. TT has been okay, AV is garbage. The rest of the supporting cast has been okay too but the reality is its on Love and Irving to start playing to their max contract value. I have confidence Irving will recover and contribute at a high level; I'm almost ready to write off Love entirely as trash tier garbage.
Jan 19, 2016 12:45pm
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Jan 19, 2016 12:48 PM
Mulva;1776670 wrote:I think the finals are going to be the same scenario as last year. The west will have the best team (whether spurs or warriors), the cavs have the best player. Lebron is always the great equalizer.

As long as we play in the east and he's on the roster, there are only 4 games worth worrying about.
True. However, I think the gap between GSW and the Cavs is too big at this point. I'd rather play the Spurs honestly and I wouldn't have said that at the start of the season. GSW has the personnel to beat the Cavs and they've proven it this year despite the full roster being available in Cleveland.

Spurs? They are better but in a 4 game series I would take the Cavs. Our biggest hope is the Spurs knock off GSW but I doubt it.
Jan 19, 2016 12:48pm
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BR1986FB

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Jan 19, 2016 12:50 PM
sleeper;1776674 wrote:Lebron has regressed a bit. He's no doubt still arguably the best player in the NBA but he's not what he used to be. I think his plan is that Love and Irving, allegedly "all-stars", would start taking a majority of the minutes and contribute a high volume of points. The reality is, Love has been complete dogshit and Irving has been plagued with injury for a good chunk of his time with Lebron in Cleveland. TT has been okay, AV is garbage. The rest of the supporting cast has been okay too but the reality is its on Love and Irving to start playing to their max contract value. I have confidence Irving will recover and contribute at a high level; I'm almost ready to write off Love entirely as trash tier garbage.
I agree with most of this. I haven't given up on Love but I think that's exactly what LBJ's plan is....to be the "third wheel" as his skills decline, and let Love & KI run the show.
Jan 19, 2016 12:50pm
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SportsAndLady

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Jan 19, 2016 1:15 PM
I just. Can't see how you can say last nights game was meaningless. It was an eye opener to the players, coaches, management, and fans (irrelevant, but still) that we are not a championship caliber team yet.

That being said, I think Kyrie will come around. His injury has plagued him even in his playing time this year. That will change as he gets more game-ready.

Also, I think we'll make a move in the next month. A significant move. There are a lot of big time players out there who's teams are looking to trade them this season. I'm hoping someone like Sacramento takes Love and AV and his contract and a few draft picks for Cousins. Greg Monroe is in that same category as well.

We need to make a move though. Going forward with the lineup as is, even if they start to build better chemistry, is still probably not enough to beat GSW or the Spurs.
Jan 19, 2016 1:15pm