sleeper
Posts: 27,879
Jun 4, 2014 11:22am
Do you believe it is possible to remove/change deeply held beliefs from an individual? If so, what strategies do you find effective in doing so? If not, why do you believe so?
Most of you have seen/read my strategy on how to change the beliefs of an individual and I'm not sure my strategy is very effective. I'm looking for new ideas to improve my ability to persuade people into my line of thinking.
Thoughts? : thumbup:
Most of you have seen/read my strategy on how to change the beliefs of an individual and I'm not sure my strategy is very effective. I'm looking for new ideas to improve my ability to persuade people into my line of thinking.
Thoughts? : thumbup:
V
vball10set
Posts: 24,795
Jun 4, 2014 11:26am
anything short of mind altering drugs is worthless
/boomer'd
/boomer'd
like_that
Posts: 26,625
Jun 4, 2014 11:26am
Unfortunately no. Some people just drink far too much kool aid to the point that you can destroy their views with facts, but they will still be stubborn to their view.sleeper;1622494 wrote:Do you believe it is possible to remove/change deeply held beliefs from an individual? If so, what strategies do you find effective in doing so? If not, why do you believe so?
Most of you have seen/read my strategy on how to change the beliefs of an individual and I'm not sure my strategy is very effective. I'm looking for new ideas to improve my ability to persuade people into my line of thinking.
Thoughts? : thumbup:
Q
queencitybuckeye
Posts: 7,117
Jun 4, 2014 11:27am
If some of your views weren't ridiculous, that could help.
sleeper
Posts: 27,879
Jun 4, 2014 11:37am
Do you think ignorance is the primary driver of this? I don't understand why people are so stubborn in their views; it logically does not make any sense to maintain a broken line of thinking just because you were initially anchored into that belief.like_that;1622496 wrote:Unfortunately no. Some people just drink far too much kool aid to the point that you can destroy their views with facts, but they will still be stubborn to their view.
vdubb96
Posts: 2,210
Jun 4, 2014 11:38am
I'll change your beliefs for $20
sleeper
Posts: 27,879
Jun 4, 2014 11:41am
I would argue that is part of my current strategy. When presented with a logically flawed opposing position, merely taken the middle ground position to sway the masses allows too much overlapping of facts, logic and evidence. Taken the extreme contrary position is much more viable because at the end of the argument the person has no choice but to at least move from their current 'extreme' position to at least some step towards your position. That is progress, which is at least something, especially given how entrenched most people are in their beliefs.queencitybuckeye;1622497 wrote:If some of your views weren't ridiculous, that could help.
C
Con_Alma
Posts: 12,198
Jun 4, 2014 12:15pm
Yes I believe it is possible.
I don't employ any strategies because I don't attempt to change someone's beliefs.
I don't employ any strategies because I don't attempt to change someone's beliefs.
Q
queencitybuckeye
Posts: 7,117
Jun 4, 2014 12:19pm
Of course they have a choice. They can see that your argument is at least as flawed as theirs, therefore, there's no reason to change. And in that case, they're right.sleeper;1622503 wrote:I would argue that is part of my current strategy. When presented with a logically flawed opposing position, merely taken the middle ground position to sway the masses allows too much overlapping of facts, logic and evidence. Taken the extreme contrary position is much more viable because at the end of the argument the person has no choice but to at least move from their current 'extreme' position to at least some step towards your position. That is progress, which is at least something, especially given how entrenched most people are in their beliefs.
SportsAndLady
Posts: 35,632
Jun 4, 2014 12:23pm
Con Alma'dCon_Alma;1622516 wrote:Yes I believe it is possible.
I don't employ any strategies because I don't attempt to change someone's beliefs.
sleeper
Posts: 27,879
Jun 4, 2014 12:27pm
By taking a position counter to mine, your baseline logic is flawed by definition. The issue is getting the other party to see how flawed their logic is and submit to the correct position.queencitybuckeye;1622519 wrote:Of course they have a choice. They can see that your argument is at least as flawed as theirs, therefore, there's no reason to change. And in that case, they're right.
sleeper
Posts: 27,879
Jun 4, 2014 12:27pm
Indeed.SportsAndLady;1622523 wrote:Con Alma'd
V
vball10set
Posts: 24,795
Jun 4, 2014 12:28pm
The idiocy continues...
lhslep134
Posts: 9,774
Jun 4, 2014 12:30pm
Not ignorance, lack of logic/reason. Or inability to separate emotion from logic/reason.sleeper;1622501 wrote:Do you think ignorance is the primary driver of this? I don't understand why people are so stubborn in their views; it logically does not make any sense to maintain a broken line of thinking just because you were initially anchored into that belief.
Heretic
Posts: 18,820
Jun 4, 2014 12:32pm
This.lhslep134;1622531 wrote:Not ignorance, lack of logic/reason. Or inability to separate emotion from logic/reason.
The best solution is forced euthanasia. I mean, words and stuff is always good for shits and giggles, but if you truly want to solve people, you finish them.
Q
queencitybuckeye
Posts: 7,117
Jun 4, 2014 12:33pm
Your topics are often interesting and thought-provoking, then you go into troll mode with statements like this. Why?sleeper;1622526 wrote:By taking a position counter to mine, your baseline logic is flawed by definition.
V
vball10set
Posts: 24,795
Jun 4, 2014 12:33pm
So sleeper should just off himself?Heretic;1622532 wrote:This.
The best solution is forced euthanasia. I mean, words and stuff is always good for shits and giggles, but if you truly want to solve people, you finish them.
sleeper
Posts: 27,879
Jun 4, 2014 12:34pm
This is probably the bigger offender. Emotions have a way of disrupting even the most intelligent humans on the planet, particularly the emotion of fear.lhslep134;1622531 wrote:Not ignorance, lack of logic/reason. Or inability to separate emotion from logic/reason.
V
vball10set
Posts: 24,795
Jun 4, 2014 12:36pm
I think you just answered your questionsleeper;1622537 wrote:Emotions have a way of disrupting even the most intelligent humans on the planet...
sleeper
Posts: 27,879
Jun 4, 2014 12:38pm
I'm not sure its troll statement rather my own perspective. I derive my thoughts, ideas, beliefs from a logical position regardless of its morality, popularity, or emotional response. In the event, on certain topics, that I do not have sufficient data to form a rational opinion, only then is the above statement that I made wrong. However, most of the time, in most scenarios, a counter position to mine is indeed flawed. Call it ego, call it arrogance, disagree all you want; but that is my perspective and that is my reality.queencitybuckeye;1622534 wrote:Your topics are often interesting and thought-provoking, then you go into troll mode with statements like this. Why?
C
Con_Alma
Posts: 12,198
Jun 4, 2014 12:39pm
I would also include love with a similar strength of impact from an emotional perspective.sleeper;1622537 wrote:This is probably the bigger offender. Emotions have a way of disrupting even the most intelligent humans on the planet, particularly the emotion of fear.
G
gut
Posts: 15,058
Jun 4, 2014 12:42pm
Confirmation bias, among other behavioral psychology explanations. Basically, you'd have to pretend to be a like-minded idiot in order to gain their trust so that you can trick them into learning something.
In real life, I don't care about educating my barber...I just want a good haircut. And I just want my cleaning lady to do a good job scrubbing my toilets - if I were to convince her of the scores of hidden taxes Democrats are dumping on her, then she might want to be paid more
In real life, I don't care about educating my barber...I just want a good haircut. And I just want my cleaning lady to do a good job scrubbing my toilets - if I were to convince her of the scores of hidden taxes Democrats are dumping on her, then she might want to be paid more
sleeper
Posts: 27,879
Jun 4, 2014 12:43pm
Agreed. Love is extremely irrational.Con_Alma;1622545 wrote:I would also include love with a similar strength of impact from an emotional perspective.
C
Con_Alma
Posts: 12,198
Jun 4, 2014 12:52pm
Only using the left side of the brain to make decisions denies the individual of the full capacity and process available to them as a human. The most exhaustive decision making process a human can make should come from a a right brain /left brain blended, cross-over process.
B
BR1986FB
Posts: 24,104
Jun 4, 2014 12:56pm
I live by these words and agree 100%.Heretic;1622532 wrote:This.
The best solution is forced euthanasia. I mean, words and stuff is always good for shits and giggles, but if you truly want to solve people, you finish them.